4/6 BOO Condo - AMPS 5.7 (103 US) - Dose question

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TheNewTeddy

TheNewTeddy

Member Since 2012
Yesterday's Condo: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68027

Our first reading today was 5.7 or 103 US. We gave 1.75 units. We debated reducing units further in the afternoon but I insisted that we stick where we are. I'd appreciate some feedback on that, and our numbers, and what people think we should be doing WRT increasing/decreasing the dose. My thoughts are to stick with 1.75 for at least another full entire day. Further updates as the day goes on.
 
Good morning, Teddy!

I saw your post from late last night...thanks for the info and explanation of why you reduced, and the profile!

I agree with you about staying with 1.75u for the time being. Boo's numbers look really good so far...if they start to creep up, you may want to increase again, but let's cross that bridge when we come to it. :smile: I would not decrease further at this point unless Boo drops below 50.

I know it's hard to balance what the vet is telling you and the information here...one thing that might help you is to print out the formal version of the TR protocol we use here and share it with your vet. I think it's always better if you can get your vet on board!

The problem with decreasing when you see numbers below 6.0 (108) is that that number is just barely into the normal range. Most vets are more comfortable with letting the cats run a bit higher, because it's safer for those who don't test like we do here. However, if you follow the guidelines in the TR protocol, it will help Boo stay in normal numbers for as much time as possible, which is best for his health. It also maximizes his chances at remission. We call the normal range the "healing range"...it allows his pancreas to rest and heal, and minimizes further damage from high BG levels.
 
Thanks for getting Boo's profile set-up. One minor housekeeping detail.... The link to your condo (it's what we call threads) doesn't work. The way this Board functions, in order to make a link active, you have to have the link in between brackets. Here's your link to Boo's 4/5 condo. Also, since you're tech savvy, here are the instructions for using the BBCode.

Laurie mentioned the formal version of the dosing protocol that we use. I'm including it below for you and Vidya to take a look at and share with your vet. The protocol is based on research, was peer-reviewed and published in one of the leading veterinary journals. It may be worth sharing with your vet, as Laurie suggested.


I also think Laurie's point is well taken -- the majority of people who have a diabetic cat don't home test. As a result, their vets are used to operating with a wide margin of safety in order to insure that a cat will not have a severe hypoglycemic episode. The minute you started home testing, you were in control of Boo's numbers. We use high carb (HC) food to steer numbers if they start trending into the below 50 range. Between having a meter and testing, knowing your cat's patterns, and judiciously using food to steer the numbers, you will be keeping Boo safe at numbers that are lower than what you vet may typically recommend because his/her other caregivers do not test. You'll note that the cut-off that we use is based on the published research which likewise presumes that people are home testing.

I'd encourage you to hold the dose. Because Lantus is depot-type insulin and its effect is cumulative, it's important to allow a dose to "settle." If you make rapid changes in the dose, numbers tend to be wonky and very hard to interpret. Lantus like consistency both in terms of dose and shot time.
 

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good morning! Teddy, i wanted to address the question you had yesterday about how things work in lower numbers. you were asking about if a particular dose dropped a cat from a preshot of 300 to 100, and you gave that same dose to a preshot of 100, wouldn't the cat drop 200 points and likely be dead? that does seem logical and all of us start out by thinking that - hence the nervousness about shooting lower numbers that we all begin with.

but, a spreadsheet speaks better than i can. here's one for you to look at.

Mikey's SS

Take a look at the how much the drop is between the preshot number on the left column and the low point a few hours later. scroll down while you are watching the left column. note the dose increases up until feb 1st. on Feb 1st mikey had his teeth cleaned. i can't recall if he had any teeth removed or if they were just cleaned. you/vidya mentioned the other day that your vet said Boo had some gingivitis.

now continue scrolling and watching the numbers down the left side, dose decreases, until feb 21st. so 3 weeks after his dental, mikey goes to all green numbers under 100. look now at the difference between the preshot number and the low point a few hours later. his last shot was march 16 and we officially declared mikey OTJ (off the juice) on march 30th.

this ss addresses the power of any infection/inflammation to increase the BG, the value of the teeth cleaning when it's needed, and the difference in how the lantus curve flattens out to practically a line when the cat's BG's at preshot are under 100. we do it safely, of course, but this is the path that many of our cats have followed. Jenn posted here daily for help with mikey and was great about learning what needed to be done.
 
Welcome to LL! :-D :-D We're glad you decided to stick around in spite of the confusion the other night. :? I think part of the confusion was too many threads going at once and that wasn't your doing. Here in LL we have one condo per cat per day it keeps everything together and responses aren't missed. If you open a condo in Health too (which is fine!) just be sure to put in the link.

Boo is doing incredibly well so early in his treatment. Like Marje, I'm interested in the Mellit drops, if that is what is helping to keep him so flat.

One other techy thing. If you could go to you r User Control Panel>Profile>Edit Signature and change the link for Boo's SS. You have the link for you to edit the sheet, but just here in the signature if you could change the "ccc" to "pub" it will make it much quicker for others to open the SS.

Also on meters, I don't know if you are aware that the makers are required that meters only be accurate to +/- 20 points. And the aren't consistently off by the same amount, so that difference between 99 and 103 is really nothing. Frustrating, I know. Don't get anyone here started on the accuracy of the syringes either. :evil:
 
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Look at those pretty greens for Boo!

You all seem to be doing great so far on the current dose...great to see!

Tanya
 
Updated the SS

+4 - 3.7 - 67
+5 - 3.9 - 70
+6 - 4.6 - 83
+9 - No test, Current time.

Will respond to posts shortly.
 
I tried changing the CCC to PUB but it just gave me an error when I tried to open it. More info? I can re-upload the sheet if that'd help.

I'm also very keen on these variance numbers (IE the 20 point thing) as I'm a very political person who follows the polls. Most polls come with a tag at the end "Accurate to within +/- 3% 19 times out of 20" As I've mentioned before I built a excel spreadsheet to calculate how polls produce election results (in Canada we have multiple parties which makes these things very complicated) so I'm very accustomed to dealing with a margin of error. That's one of the skills I bring to the table, which is fortunate, as I'm still lacking when it comes to getting that darn needle plunger just right.

Our meter, and I did the math, as I'm used to the above (using the numbers provided) and our numbers are +/- 10 (US) 19 times out of 20, so I'm getting a good handle on these things.
 
we don't worry too much about the meter variance because it would make a person kinda crazy - really, what we're most interested in for our cats is the bigger picture - over 24 hours and compared day to day overall. individual numbers don't mean much unless the cat gets too low. in general, as we've compared notes on here, it seems the meters are fairly accurate from one to another in the lower numbers, and those are more critical for it to be accurate on.

regarding the ccc and pub - i wasn't able to change mine because there was some kind of problem because i'm using windows 7 starter pack. so if you can't get it worked out, don't worry about it. there are others with that issue as well.
 
ohmygod_smile Sorry, I meant to say 20%,what I was f=getting at was that don't really consider 4 points difference a rise, it could just be the varience.
 
Vidya and I had a disagreement on how to fill up the syringe. Given my earlier comments, even I had thought that she was right, but we watched a few videos, and it turns out I was, meaning we may have been under-dosing this entire time due to air bubbles. We are in the process of correcting this.

EDIT

Just to let anyone know who has been following us, I've made a few minor changes to the SS just to make it a bit easier for us (Boo's Beans) to follow.
 
Was just reading Boo's profile - hilarious on the exercise :lol:

I didn't take a look at the handling lantus video (thanks Julie!) until after I had stuffed my first cartridge of Lantus by the half way mark. At that point I discovered how to draw the dose properly :oops: these things happen so don't worry about it too much. There is just so much information to absorb when you're starting out. You guys are doing a fantastic job and learning quickly. So is Boo, from your ss it's looking like you could call him regulated already - amazing! Great job on the testing too :-D
 
Vyktors Mum said:
Was just reading Boo's profile - hilarious on the exercise :lol:
Click to expand...
I JUST added a few pics if you want to reload it. I made a "comic strip" about the exercise :P


Vyktors Mum said:
Great job on the testing too :-D
Click to expand...
6am is when he is craziest, but I thought maybe he was more crazy than usual so I tested him myself. Usually vidya does the tests but better to be safe than sorry right!
 
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