4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +4 36 +5 55 +5.5 60 +6 50 +7 85 + 8 139

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Tina & Rocky

Tina & Rocky

Member Since 2013
Good afternoon,

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Rocky is off to a good start today. His BG has already touched a green number, 89, at AMPS +4.. Right now my dilemma is that I don't know how to help Rocky surf green numbers. :YMSIGH: I don't know whether I should feed Rocky small bits of food when he gets into the greens; or, If should just take a "wait and see" approach with Rocky's green numbers.

This afternoon I opted to feed him 1/8 can of his NVIV zero carb food when his BG went to 89. I do NOT want Rocky to have a reducie but in reality I have very little control over this. (FYI- his BG still dropped one hr later after I fed him the 1/8 can zero carb food. His BG at AMPS +5 is 80.)

One thing I do now for Rocky is measure out his food so that if he gets fed at times that are NOT his regularly scheduled meals, I subtract that amount from his normal feeding times. For example, now Rocky has eaten a total of 1/4 can of food because I fed him at AMPS +4 and +5. That means tonight I will feed Rocky 1/8 can of food at his PMPS +1 and +3 instead of 1/4 can of food.

Of course if I have to keep feeding him for many hours right now just to keep his BG from going to 50 I will just stay on track with the amount that I normally feed him in the evening.

What else is happening? It's just a PERFECT spring day here in Elk Grove. Temperature is 70°F outside and there is only the slightest sometimes wisp of a warm breeze, gently blowing the smell of blossoming flowers and barking dogs into the air. I am remembering being a child in the park across the street from where I lived, running through a field full of clover and trying to be careful that I don't step on one of the hundreds of honeybees collecting nectar on those small round and pink flowers.

My exciting adult plan for today is to take my incredibly stinky cat food filled car to be washed inside and out, even shampooed today, *if* I do not have to monitor Rocky to keep his BG from going too low.

Rocky recap of yesterday:
AMPS 135 +2 268 +4 217 +6 200 +9 213
PMPS 140 +2 128 +4 145 +7 314
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky AMPS 258 +2 160 +4 89 +5 80

We've found that what usually helps surfing is as soon as they hit green, feed two tsp of LC food. Test appropriately and if they are still dropping, feed a couple more until they are flat above 50 but generally it is better for them to surf a little higher so you have some cushion in the numbers. Once they flatten in the cycle, don't feed but test and see if they are able to surf without food.

We have also found that, in general, diabetic cats do better on LC food that is anywhere in the 4-10% range depending on the cat. Usually the really low carb food does not provide enough carbs to work with the insulin and you can see big drops. But it is ECID.

Welcome to spring!
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky AMPS 258 +2 160 +4 89 +5 80 +6 80

Hi Marje,

Thank you for that advise. So, it looks like so far I have done the right thing for Rocky. He has been able to maintain the 80 BG for two hours, with food. Now let's see what happens in the third hour.

As far as offering a wet canned cat food that has some carbs, I would do it except for that I am doing a "clearing" on Rocky and I do not want him to have any turkey, chicken, or poultry (duck), for at least 4 full months. That leaves me with venison as the only option and this particular brand has zero carbs in it.

The reason I am doing this for Rocky is that I believe Rocky's body became diabetic after my friend fed him strictly 'Meow Mix' kibble, as much as he wanted to eat, as well as occasionally she would feed him Meow Mix wet food, when he refused to eat.

I believe but don't know for sure that Rocky's weight BALLOONED under my friend's care, his pancreas then became sick from eating too many corn carbs, and then he began to lose massive amounts of weight and the diabetes set in.. Rocky was an incredibly lean, well muscled cat that just happened to get trapped at one of our colonies. He is completely tame. I believe he ate mostly rodents that lived in the huge field where he was trapped.

I had to go take care of my friend's dog today and checked in on the cats that she is fostering for me. ALL OF THEM ARE NOW OBESE. I am at my wits end, I have told her many times that she is overfeeding them. I feel so sorry for these cats because I will not be able to 'rescue' all of them from diabetes. They are going to be put to sleep if they develop diabetes, and my friend will just think it is because there was something wrong with the cats body. I have told her that it is because of the cat's food and their weight and that she is feeding these cats basically bird food; i.e. CORN MEAL, but she just won't listen to me..

Anyway, I want all of this cornmeal, chicken, turkey, poultry, cleared from his system to eliminate a possible food allergy. Next month I will begin to re-introduce 'light' carbs into his canned food diet.
 
Re: Shooting low- advise please! Rocky at 95

Hi Tina,

I'm sorry I'm not qualified to give dosing advice, but I'm bumping your post to the top of the list to hopefully get more eyes on it.

Good luck!
Shelly
 
Re: Shooting low- advise please! Rocky at 95

Rocky is one hour and a half away from his evening shot time, but his AMPS +10 reading was in the green at 95. Before that he was at 100. I fed him 2x today when he was in the green to try to keep his BG from dropping to 50.

I'm not quiet sure what to do about his PMPS.. It looks like the last time I gave Rocky a shot while he was in the green was on 3/2/14, but his insulin dose was only 1.75u at that time, and, he may have been on his way to a bounce already.

I'm feeling a bit nervous.. nailbite_smile I do so want to keep him at this 2.50u dose.

Now, it is completely possible for Rocky's BG to zoom to the moon before his PM shot time, but right now it appears his BG is still slowly going down even after his "added" unplanned small bites of food at AMPS +4 an +5.

The reason I'm concerned is because he has had low, flat numbers all day long. That is a first for Rocky.

Thanks everyone!
 
Re: Shooting low, inching up, pls advise! Rocky AMPS + 10 10

I'd get a +11 so that you'll have an idea of whether Rocky is going up, down, or surfing at PMPS. Hopefully someone will be around then to help advise.
 
Re: Shooting low, inching up, pls advise! Rocky AMPS + 10 10

Or you could wait and get an 11.5 and see how he is doing. All this lovely normal number time today is fantastic for Rocky! :-D

As long as Rocky is rising from his nadir today, you are usually good to shoot. Provided of course you have strips, high carb food and are able to monitor tonight - just in case you need to. Some Lantus/Levemir cats do a double dip at the end of their cycle where they drop a little at the end, but not below the nadir. That may have been what you are seeing. 95 and 100 are essentially the same with meter variance. Rocky's doing some great surfing. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Re: Shooting low, inching up, pls advise! Rocky AMPS + 10 10

I agree that this would be a great chance to help Rocky along in his healing as long as you will be able to stay up, test, and manage his curve, if needed.
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky AMPS 131

Marje, Julie, Shelly, Nikki, Wendy,

I felt safe to give Rocky his 2.50u insulin shot as his BG went up to 131 at PMPS. Let's see if he can come back down and surf the blues, or greens, tonight. I have everything ready just in case he goes too low. I'll be paying close attention but I don't want to be poking his ears too much.

Thanks again for all of your help.

Hopefully I won't be up asking someone to stay up with me to old my hand while I guide him through a hypo. nailbite_smile
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky AMPS 131

fabulous! shoot low to stay low! this is the path to stabilizing his numbers in a lower range. let's hope he'll surf.

do you still use gravy cat food to pull up his BGs when he gets low? i was just thinking about the corn concern and that karo is corn syrup.
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131

Julie I only have the concern for feeding a cat corn when it is consistently the only thing and the main thing on their menu for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and any time in-between. :lol: I read the labels on cat foods and if I see corn, or cornmeal listed I won't buy it. If I have to have a grain in cat food because it lowers the cost of the food, I prefer rice over corn as a grain for cats. I do understand a lot of folks here do not like rice for diabetic cats. I don't know how corn could be any better for their cat though. :roll:

I am also not a "free" feeder with this household. I found that a few of these cats were little gluttons, oink oink, and some of them eat just enough to barely keep the weight on their bones.

I have no problem feeding Rocky Karo syrup for a hypo. That's one time that being corn doesn't bother me. I'll do whatever it takes to save Rocky's life. I, however, am very allergic to corn syrup and unfortunately it is in about everything we humans eat these days. :YMSIGH: I am also terribly addicted to sugar.

The past few weeks when Rocky has reached a green number and started going lower I have given him about (1)tsp of his own zero carb food, or (1)tsp of the 2% carb lamb. I won't feed him the Karo syrup or the HC gravy food unless he surprises me with a number below 50. So far Rocky hasn't visited a number below 50 since 3/13/14. I pray tonight that we don't revisit those too low numbers. nailbite_smile
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131

i'm trying to think what the options are for getting him a low carb food that isn't zero carb so we can encourage him to stay in good numbers.

you can also use honey.

i've got no idea what the ratio would be to achieve an overall 3-4%, say, but i wonder about adding a little syrup to his regular food. maybe a drop to a 3oz can of zero carb?

just thinking out loud.
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131

I'm not sure but maybe the Nature's Variety Rabbit or Duck might have 3 or 4%. Let me take a look at Dr. Lisa's chart. I just wanted to avoid the duck for now as it is considered a poultry.

You think that giving him the 3%-4% might even out his numbers so he doesn't swing so wildly?
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131

i'm just trying to think of the equivalent of giving a cat 2 teaspoons of low carb food to encourage them to surf. because that often works. Also, you just said that you don't really have any tools to keep him from going under 50, and some carbs would be that tool
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131

Right now I have one can of the 2% carb NV lamb, but you don't think that is high enough in carbs to help Rocky surf, right?
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72

So Rocky is already back down into the greens, 72 at PMPS +2... I haven't fed him any of the 2% lamb, yet. He's got one more regularly scheduled feeding for the night, but it looks like I might be feeding him throughout the night.
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44

I just fed Rocky (1) tsp of Friskies Prime Filets Beef w/ Gravy.

Gosh darn it.. I do not want to lower Rocky's insulin dose tomorrow at all. Must I do so? :cry: What is the possible danger to him if I do not lowering his dose tomorrow?

I then tried to feed him 1/4 can of the 2% carb NV lamb, but he wouldn't touch it! CRAP! ohmygod_smile I then gave him one more teaspoon of the Friskies Prime Filets w/ Gravy. While he was eating it I went to go mix his normal 1/4 can NVIV w/ (2)tbs of water. Brought it back to him and he ate it.

Will retest in about 15 or 20 minutes.
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44

Time to come up a little Rocky. You've made your point about tonight's cycle.

How are you doing Tina? You have the 911 up and wondering if you need help. Regarding your question about reducing, have you ever read Marje's post on Reductions. Some people do wait for multiple times under 50 (or once under 30) for reductions if their cat has failed previous reductions. However, due to the nature of the depot, you do have to be careful when doing so.

Be careful you don't fill him up too much. It's still early in the cycle and you might have to feed him a while yet.
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44

Hi Wendy I just forgot to take down the 911. I was just alerting anyone that might still be awake that Rocky has dipped below 50.

I think you are right. I am probably going to need to continue to feed Rocky for awhile. I just hope that he starts to come up soon.

I wasn't aware that some people wait a few cycles before doing a reducie. I learned tonight that Ella does that sometimes for Rusty but I didn't know that others do it too.

I think part of the situation with Rocky right now is that I decided I wouldn't feed him as much for his PMPS 4 mini-meals because I had already fed him 1/4 can of food during the AMPS +4 and +5, and he usually does not get fed at those times. I fed him then to try to keep him from going down to 50. I think that feeding him less was a big mistake on my part, especially because he was still at a green number and his BG had only risen a tiny bit at PMPS.

I learned my lesson there..
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44

It's primarily caregivers of long term diabetics (over a year since diagnosis) that do the multiple times under 50 rules, although there are some that do it for cats who have a track record of failing reductions. For newly diagnosed kitties we recommend the reduction when the numbers go under 50. I pointed to the post on reductions because there was a good example of what can wait if you wait too long for the reduction.

Have you got his +3 test yet?
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44 +3.5 52

I took the PMPS at 3.5 (I think that is 12:30am?), rather then right at 12am because he was still eating.

I wonder how long it will take Rocky's system to recognize the (2)tsps of HC Friskies that he's eaten? That ball is also in play here. :roll:

I hate the fact that Rocky is probably going to bounce pretty bad from all of this now. :cry: I wish I could be an expert on Rocky overnight. :cool: :lol:
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44 +3.5 52

HC wet food usually shows up in the BG in 20-30 minutes and lasts around 2 hours. But I've seen it last a bit less a bit more - ECID of course.

I hope he doesn't keep you up too late and continues on a nice long healing green surf.
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44 +3.5 52 +4 36

Well, right now I'm not sure how long he is going to keep me up. I fed him the HC Friskies at 12:00am and at 1:00am, as well as 1/4 can of his NVIV with two drops of Karo in it.

He has dropped even lower, to 36 now.. @-) nailbite_smile. I just fed him another 1/4 can of his NVIV w/ two drops of Karo in it.

I had some trouble getting this latest re-test too. My lancet broke right when I put it to Rocky's ear. It wouldn't go off. I was scrambling around my office to find something to poke him with. I remembered that there was a lancet in a care pkg that Anne had sent to me so I dug through my closet to find it. Whew.. that extra lancet saved my A** just now, or should I say Rocky's.. :lol:
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44 +3.5 52 +4 36

If you have a hard time getting Rocky up or keeping him up and end up feeding a lot of HC or karo, that's a good sign he wants a reduction. See how the night goes, but keep that in mind for the morning shot.
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44 +3.5 52 +4 36 +4.5 56

He's back at 56.. but maybe this is just a game of ping-pong.. 44 to 52.. 52 to 36.. 36 to 56..

I want to see that number go up, up, up after all he has eaten in the past 4 hours.

I will keep that in mind about whether I should give him a reducie in the morning. But if his BG is in the 300s by his AMPS, I think I'll keep it at 2.50u. Don't you think so? :roll:
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44 +3.5 52 +4 36 +4.5 56 +

Rocky's PMPS +5 was down by one point from 56 to 55, so I fed him another 1/4 can of his NVIV. Only, he wouldn't eat it with the water in it this time. I had to go get him food without the water in it. Well, he has had a lot of water tonight!

I now think that he *might* have eaten the 2% carb canned lamb if I had not added the water to it. It might have saved me a few hours of sleep tonight. I'll have to remember that for next time. I hope that's what the problem was and that it's not that he has decided he does not like lamb.
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44 +3.5 52 +4 36 +4.5 56 +

I clearly am no expert but I would think one point could even just be that they allow the meters to be off by as much as 20%. Max just went up one point but to me it is the same. He didn't finish the food I put out last either. I wonder why they pull this so much at night. So many people I know who had diabetic cats never tested at home. Their cats could have been hypo or hyper without them even knowing it. They did get to sleep though, LOL. I'm up with you!!

Elise
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44 +4 36 +4.5 56 +5 55 +5.

I was thinking the same thing this evening about all of those people who never tested their cats like we do. In fact, my vet was very surprised that I was testing Rocky so often right now. I got this distinct feeling that he thought it was a little too much.

Rocky's BG hasn't changed much in the past two hours. Kind of getting a flat 55-60 now. Even though he has eaten A TON, I don't think I'd feel safe to go to bed until I see that meter go up to at least 70 for him.

I haven't had any coffee, but I have eaten a few pieces off a bar of nice chocolate. :lol:
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44 +4 36 +4.5 56 +5 55 +5.

I've been reading to stay up. I'm having problems with Max similar to what you are having. He failed reductions a couple of times. Then I managed to avoid them with food. If I hadn't dosed I might have caught this one as well. Max was so stable all day and now will bounce yet again too. I don't want coffee or chocolate because I hope I get a few hours of sleep.
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44 +4 36 +4.5 56 +5 55 +5.

I've been working on a "Proposal Summary" for my non-profit cat rescue, Kitty Karma Refuge and Recovery Center through all of Rocky's ups and downs tonight. I've only written about three paragraphs so far though. I'm SUPER tired now. I-) The proposal is to present to a veterinary animal hospital to see if they would reduce their medical costs for the cats that are being cared for by KKR. I must have this finished before Monday.

The chocolate isn't doing much to keep me awake.. LOL! I mainly keep opening the pantry door and eating anything sweet every time that I put the rice sock into the microwave to heat it for Rocky's ear. :lol:

When I re-tested Rocky at PMPS +6 he had dropped to 50. I just fed him (1)tsp of HC food w/ 2 drops of Karo in it. I think he is going to have one heck of a bounce either tomorrow or the next day.. :roll:
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44 +4 36 +5 55 +5.5 60 +6

I'm sure Max and Rocky will be bouncing. I wish we could convince them stable is better. I thought Max was bouncing because of the big drops. Today he was balanced only to take a dive tonight. Go figure.
 
Re: 4/5 Rocky PMPS 131 +2 72 +2.5 44 +4 36 +5 55 +5.5 60 +6

This really sucks but I'm now beginning to wonder if I can safely give Rocky any insulin at all tomorrow morning. Or maybe I'll have to give him even less than 2.25u.. that would be a major bummer. hm.. :sad:
 
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