4/5 Boo AMPS 5.5 (99 US)

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TheNewTeddy

TheNewTeddy

Member Since 2012
Never done one of these before, but here is our "condo" I think it's called for today so far.

AMPS - 5.5 (99)
Reduced dose from 2 to 1.75
+3 - 4.6 (83)
+4 - 4.3 (77)
+5 - 4.3 (77)
+6 - 4.3 (77) CURRENT
We plan to reduce the dose further to 1.5 at the PM shot and try to hold that for a while, supplementing with foods if needed. If we go near to 2.7 (50) however we may reduce the dose even further. One of our concerns is that because it's so long-lasting that if we reduce too much we might see, in a few days, a huge spike, which would result in a higher dose, which would get us into an undulation/fishtail cycle, so we are mindful of that.
 
I have to say that your first condo looks terrific!
You two guys have done well by you Boo.

All I have to say is those are freaky flat numbers.... what meter are you using, just curious.
I can't say that I recall ever seeing next to no reaction to shots.

Still looks pretty good.
 
I have to say that your first condo looks terrific!
You two guys have done well by you Boo.

All I have to say is those are freaky flat numbers.... what meter are you using, just curious.
I can't say that I recall ever seeing next to no reaction to shots.

Still looks pretty good.
 
I have to say that your first condo looks terrific!
You two guys have done well by you Boo.

All I have to say is those are freaky flat numbers.... what meter are you using, just curious.
I can't say that I recall ever seeing next to no reaction to shots.

Still looks pretty good.
 
Aviva AccuChek or somesort, is our tester.

One of our suspicions is that since he's so fat that he might be "storing" the insulin for when he needs it, and my personal hope is that we caught him SO early that his body never had time to adjust to being diabetic, and thus, getting him back to normal will be easy.

...one can hope!
 
hi vidya!

those are weirdly flat, yet very good numbers for Boo today! :lol:

if i have info correct from your earlier posts, i think Boo started insulin on 3/28 - 9 days ago. just so you know, we rarely adjust insulin doses more often than every 6-10 cycles unless a cat drops below 50. I believe you said you were following the Tight Regulation Protocol - if so, you'll want to hold this dose for a total of 6 cycles minimum before you adjust it, unless Boo drops below 50.

"General" Guidelines:
Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 consecutive cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 consecutive cycles).
Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 consecutive cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.
Click to expand...

the reason is the way Lantus works. you will have the best results if you don't adjust doses more often than recommended by the protocol.

It would be helpful if you had a profile - this keeps us from each asking you the same question a hundred times (what do you feed your cat, when was he diagnosed, how much does he weigh) thereby making you crazy! it also helps you get the best possible advice. How to Create a Profile

Great job getting that spreadsheet up and going. Boo is looking pretty stellar today! perhaps he's going to be a very easy cat to get regulated! wouldn't that be great?

edited to correct error
 
TheNewTeddy said:
Never done one of these before, but here is our "condo" I think it's called for today so far.

AMPS - 5.5 (99)
Reduced dose from 2 to 1.75
+3 - 4.6 (83)
+4 - 4.3 (77)
+5 - 4.3 (77)
+6 - 4.3 (77) CURRENT
We plan to reduce the dose further to 1.5 at the PM shot and try to hold that for a while, supplementing with foods if needed. If we go near to 2.7 (50) however we may reduce the dose even further. One of our concerns is that because it's so long-lasting that if we reduce too much we might see, in a few days, a huge spike, which would result in a higher dose, which would get us into an undulation/fishtail cycle, so we are mindful of that.
Click to expand...

Hi Teddy (is that your name?), welcome to the group! Yes, we call them condos, nicely done!

Lovely numbers the last few days, it looks like Lantus is agreeing very well with Boo! The last few cycles have been absolutely picture perfect, exactly what you want. :-D It's entirely up to you, but if Boo were my cat, I would stay with the 2.0u dose. I know there are many here in LL who will be green with envy looking at Boo's SS! :mrgreen:

It looks like you are getting a good number of tests, and since Boo is newly diagnosed, following the TR protocol gives you the best chance at remission. I thought Vidya had something in her signature saying you are following tight regulation, please correct me if I'm mistaken. With TR, you would not reduce until Boo drops below 50 or has a week in normal numbers. If you are following SLGS, I can understand reducing to 1.75u, but I would wait for the shed to adjust to that reduction before deciding about a further reduction.

Hope to see you posting often! :-D

PS....Lantus is famous for it's flat curves, this is really not unusual. It is less common to see it so soon, but certainly not the first time we've seen it happen! :smile: I would hate for you to feel like Boo is some sort of freak, he's just a fast learner. :cool:
 
TheNewTeddy said:
Another test at +8 puts us at 104 US numbers. We are likely to stick at 1.75 with these numbers.
Click to expand...

Yep, I would stick with the 1.75 now that you have started on it (although I agree with Laurie, I wouldn't have reduced just yet) and don't forget since you only just reduced this morning you're still seeing 'shed action' from the 2 unit dose. The full effects of the reduction you have already taken aren't being seen yet. I do hope it holds for you.

I would love if you do a profile for Boo too - the info you put in there is important but really, I just want to see more pictures!
 
FWIW, the more time that Boo spends in normal numbers (50 - 120mg/dL), the better the opportunity for his pancreas to heal. Like Laurie, I would have stayed at the 2.0u dose until Boo either spent a week in normal numbers or his numbers dropped below 50 to signal a dose reduction.

I'm not sure that Lantus can be "stored" the way you're describing. Once injected into the subcutaneous tissue, the acidic Lantus solution is neutralized by the body to a neutral pH. Because Lantus is not soluble at a neutral pH, it forms a microprecipitate that's not soluble in subcutaneous fat, and there forms a relatively insoluble depot. From that pool, or depot, of precipitated Lantus in the tissues, small amounts slowly move back into solution over time and then to the bloodstream. Like all pharmaceuticals, Lantus has a defined period of when it's active and then becomes inert.
 
I'll see if I can cook up a profile.

I've also updated the spreadsheet.

There are two reasons we reduced the dose.
First, the Vet told us originally that at 6.0 we should look at reduction and his test PMPS yesterday was 5.9
Secondly, the reaction we had last night was a big part of it, everyone was telling us we had given too much, and nobody really said what we had done was okay until after our AM shot. (or at least none of us had seen these posts until that time)
The whole event really upset Vidya and we had a discussion and agreed to begin reducing the dose. She had noted that .25 was not required (we could have reduced by more) but I stuck to my guns noting the undulation/fishtailing and that if we go too low the spike would be too big. One of the things is that we use the International scale, so where you guys see 106, over 100, we see 5.9, under 6. Another difficulty is my personal lack of understanding in what happens in low numbers. I don't mean symptoms for hypo, I just mean the numbers themselves. For example, if a shot can drop you from 200 to 100, IE in half, could another identical shot drop you from 100 to 50 (in half) or from 100 to 0 (bigtime trouble). I'm a numbers person so the biology is something I'm not fully up-to-date on, however, Vidya is very strong with that, so we tend to combine our skills. She handles the herbal supplements, cat diet, and does most of the shots and testing, while I handle keeping track of the data, looking for trends, and tech stuff. For example I likely have over 100,000 posts on various forums over my lifetime, while I doubt Vidya's ever even hit 1,000.

Also yes, I go by Teddy online. Offline people call be Nick, or Nicholas if it's my mother :mrgreen: but online I prefer to be called Teddy even by those who know me offline.

EDIT
I've cooked up a basic profile, in my sig. It contains the data that was in Vidya's sig, as well as answers to suggested questions. I will expand upon it once I get a better feel for what others have done, and, what we/Vidya is giving Boo. I have no problem with people knowing who I am (a google search will tell you that I'm a prolific poster, who sometimes gets banned, takes Ritalin, has Autism, has run for office two times, and built an excel program to accurately predict canadian elections far better than anyone else) but I won't add any info on Vidya unless she wishes it.
 
Hi Teddy, I know exactly what you mean about the numbers, but the same dose of insulin can have different effects depending on the number you are starting at (and of course many other factors). Maddening, isn't it? :lol:

The way it tends to work is that the curve is flatter at lower numbers. So say Boo was at 250, you shot him with 1.75 units, and he dropped to 125. That might make you worry about shooting the same dose when he was at 150. However, you very likely wouldn't see such a drastic drop from 150 even with the same dose... he would still curve down until nadir, but the magnitude of the curve would be much less. I hope that makes sense.

I am sorry that Vidya was upset. :sad: Our intentions were good, but I can see why you would feel like you were getting different advice in your different condos. Boo's numbers are great, and we have a saying here, 'shoot low to stay low'... the concern was really just because you guys are new and we don't know Boo's patterns yet. I hope Vidya won't take it too personally and will still feel comfortable posting here.

ETA: I was able to see your profile, very nice! Boo and Scout, eh? Are you guys To Kill a Mockingbird fans?
 
They came pre-named

Actually...
We were joking earlier about how fat Boo is and thinking maybe there were 3 of them and he ate Atticus :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
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