4/30 Toeby AMPS 416, +2 346, +6 266, PMPS 275, +1 364, +2 378

If you got rid of the dry you could do the tight regulation which would be better for Toeby to try and get rid of those higher BGs.
Is that feasible?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
If you got rid of the dry you could do the tight regulation which would be better for Toeby to try and get rid of those higher BGs.
Is that feasible?
Click to expand...

Hi Bron,

He's not currently eating dry.
We haven't been feeding him dry since early last week, because I was afraid the "low carb" Dr. Elseys might not be so low carb.

When the supply of the chicken formulation got scarce North America wide - I read comments on the Facebook group - I wonder if the supplier messed with the ingredients.
Petsmart carries Dr. Elseys here (100 kms away or ship via courier), and I read that both Petsmart, and Chewy's in the USA were short in supply, and I wondered what's going on to cause that.
Maybe it's made in China, maybe some ingredients were stuck on a boat in the Suez canal, who knows???
I was saying to Wendy that he likes it, and will eat it readily, so it could be an option for a snack.

He has been eating Stella and Chewy's freeze dried turkey, reconstituted, and he is loving the Weruva Cats in the Kitchen slide n' serve - they are low carb (not all the Weruva pouches are) and I add water and he loves them WAY more than Fancy Feast.
He does still get some canned FF and other low carb brands, but the pouches are a hit.
I have been giving him freeze dried snacks, and the occasional Temptation when I was testing a bazillion times to keep him from running off.
He gets probiotics on his breakfast too.

I think I'm willing to try most anything, but I'll have to read up on TR before I say too much.

I am home now more than ever, because of the pandemic - we go very few places.
Especially now while our province is under a 2 week essential lockdown.

I am currently testing him a lot and he has been good about it, but he gets tired of it... yesterday I think I tested him 10 times.
I am home every night, I haven't been away overnight since February 2020.
I can afford the supplies, that's not an issue.

But, I cannot commit to be home all day every day to test him hourly.
Let me research TR and come back... I take it from what Wendy was saying that she too, is thinking that the SLGS approach is not cutting it with Toeby, but he's not getting dry food.
Laura
 
PMPS 275
Well... this feels like a good sign?
I started reading on the TR protocol, and in particular the posts from people who worked.
I have more reading to do before committing.
But, back to the current situation - tonight's preshot is his first yellow preshot in almost a full week.
I am thinking of repeating the same dose I gave him this morning - which was less than .10 but more than just the drop suggestion (I read that after I dosed him) ?
And keep giving him food tonight and testing.... ?
 
@Bron and Sheba (GA), I played around with some water and a syringe... I think what I entered on my spreadsheet as 0.09 units is really more 1 fat drop.
I take more out of the cartridge (pen cartridge) than I need, whack the syringe a few times to get the air out, and dial it down to below the bottom black line - it looks to be a fairly repeatable drop when I play with water.
 
He really likes to go deep-sea diving from time to time doesn't he!

I hope he gets more used to the insulin and will stop doing that...low lows = big bounces. Hard to get a handle on this one isn't it?
 
I used to give Sheba Weruva as an alternative to raw sometimes. She always loved it..
The cats in the kitchen canned range are all low carb.

With TR you don’t have to be testing every hour. You are testing more than enough at the moment to be doing TR.
The main differences are you reduce at 50 not 90, you can increase each 3 days if needed and if you get a failed reduction you can go straight back to the previous dose and don’t have to wait 7 days like on SLGS. As he’s a long term diabetic he would get a reduction once under 40, three times under 50 on different cycles or a week in green numbers.

It sounds like you have figured out the drop dose. As long as it is consistent.


He certainly needs to be getting rid of those pinks and yellows. He’s a diver and bouncer like Sheba, so I feel your frustration.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
With TR you don’t have to be testing every hour. You are testing more than enough at the moment to be doing TR.
The main differences are you reduce at 50 not 90, you can increase each 3 days if needed and if you get a failed reduction you can go straight back to the previous dose and don’t have to wait 7 days like on SLGS. As he’s a long term diabetic he would get a reduction once under 40, three times under 50 on different cycles or a week in green numbers.
Click to expand...

Forgive me (please!) if this is tedious, to repeat back to you, but I want to make sure I'm understanding, not assuming.
So, for argument's sake, IF Toeby was following TR right now:

-He would have earned a deduction from the 0.50 unit dose he was on based on the 3 readings under 50 (41, 47, and 23 on April 5th - 8th)
-He would have earned a deduction from the 0.25 unit dose he was on based on the 1 reading under 40 (34 on April 24th)
-He would have NOT have earned a deduction from the 0.10 unit dose based on the 45 yesterday, April 29th, because it's not under 40, or he WOULD have earned a deduction as it was his fifth sub 50 reading since April 5th?

Assuming he DID deserve a deduction based on yesterday's fifth sub-50 reading.... and I was following TR, when do I increase?
Is there number rules to go by for increases like there are for decreases, like is each colour code a step?
If I get 3 days of pink or yellow, I then go back up to 0.10?
And then if I get 3 more days of pink or yellow, I go back up again to 0.25?
And adjust up and down as his preshots go?

Ultimately, the goal is to get him feeling better, and more regulated.
I'm not really sure I care how I get there, with the only key being to not kill him with an overdose of insulin.
And, as long as I can leave him unattended at times.
I know there are no guarantees...

For what it's worth, I really don't think he was truly diabetic last year - one vet did use the term "prediabetic".
He had no symptoms of increased water intake and increased urine output when diagnosed, and he went hypo so often on tiny doses...
The vet he is currently seeing supported taking him off insulin and he did fine until a few weeks ago after he was put on the prednisolone in November.
I do 100% believe he has been pushed into diabetes by the steroid... he lost weight, had PU, PD, and all the classic diabetic symptoms along with his high blood glucose.
But his constant barfing stopped on the steroids, so... what do you do?
I hoped the pred wouldn't cause it, but it did.
Laura
 
Laurasboyz said:
-He would have earned a deduction from the 0.50 unit dose he was on based on the 3 readings under 50 (41, 47, and 23 on April 5th - 8th)
Click to expand...
If you get a reading in the 20s or 30s it is an automatic reduction. But if the three readings had been in the 40s, then yes that would have qualified for a reduction

Laurasboyz said:
He would have earned a deduction from the 0.25 unit dose he was on based on the 1 reading under 40 (34 on April 24th)
Click to expand...
Yes

Laurasboyz said:
He would have NOT have earned a deduction from the 0.10 unit dose based on the 45 yesterday, April 29th, because it's not under 40, or he WOULD have earned a deduction as it was his fifth sub 50 reading since April 5th?
Click to expand...
Once you have used the BG for a reduction, you can't go back and use it again. Once you change the dose, it all starts over again.
So he would not have earned a reduction with the one drop under 50.
For TR....Its one drop under 40 or 3 drops under 50 to get a reduction.


Laurasboyz said:
Assuming he DID deserve a deduction based on yesterday's fifth sub-50 reading.... and I was following TR, when do I increase?
Click to expand...
you cant get a reduction using that method

Laurasboyz said:
Is there number rules to go by for increases like there are for decreases, like is each colour code a step?
If I get 3 days of pink or yellow, I then go back up to 0.10?
And then if I get 3 more days of pink or yellow, I go back up again to 0.25?
And adjust up and down as his preshots go?
Click to expand...

If you have 6 cycles where you don't drop down into either blue or green numders, you can increase the dose, but you need to be aware if there is a bounce about to break as well.. When you first start seeing blue numbers you hold the dose a bit longer.
Once you start seeing green numbers you will need more guidance. I would keep asking about increases and decreases for the time being until you are more familiar with it all.
With a failed reduction, you can increase as soon as you know it is a failed reduction. and you go back to the last good dose. When looking at failed reductions, you need to take into account....is the cat bouncing from a low number or not.

Laurasboyz said:
I do 100% believe he has been pushed into diabetes by the steroid... he lost weight, had PU, PD, and all the classic diabetic symptoms along with his high blood glucose.
But his constant barfing stopped on the steroids, so... what do you do?
I hoped the pred wouldn't cause it, but it did.
Click to expand...
There is no doubt that pred (steroid) shots or tablets can send a cat into diabetes. We have seen it many times here.
I have marked on my cats vet records that I don't want them to have steroid (this was my pre FDMB days) and he had prednisolone daily for years and never developed diabetes.
But in saying all that, there are some cats that need pred for such things as IBD. I had a cat with IBD and gave him pred for years (in my pre FDMB years) and he didn't get diabetes.
 
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"Is there number rules to go by..."
OMG!
Horrified!
I am such a grammar cop, I cannot believe that I used "is" instead of "are"... Eek!!! ;)

Anyway...
Looks like another pink day in the offing, although he just was yodeling in the hallway and scampering, being silly: we call it "having the vapours".

With regard to changing protocols from SLGS to TR:

I am sensing that you, @Bron and Sheba (GA), and perhaps @Wendy&Neko too, are thinking that I stand a better chance with him by following the TR protocol, given his numbers?
Can I go ahead and just switch, change my signature to reflect that, and start?
Then feel my way along with help from you and others?
I am thinking that the help and advice of experienced people here depends on them knowing which protocol I am following, right?
Then I would stick with this dose for 3 days, and if he is still pinks and yellows, no greens, bump it up a bit?

Before I declare or make a formal change in approach, I want to make sure I'm doing the right things to help those of you who take the time and effort to assist people, to help me.
Thanks
Laura
 
I think Toeby is still bouncing ........some cats take every opportunity to stay on the trampoline! :rolleyes:I know because I had one of them! :cat:

Yes, all you need to do is decide to change, then record the change on the SS at the top and draw a line across the SS at the change date so it is clear when the change took place, and change it in the signature. Yes, we need to see what method people are following to help them. We also check the type of insulin, type of meter, food and the SS before we help. It makes it much easier for us if it is all there.
That is all you do initially. Then we wait and see what he does with the drop of insulin.
 
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