4/27 - Napoleon - how does it look?

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Nicole and Napoleon

Nicole and Napoleon

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BCP PZI 2.5U BID

4/27

AMPS - 245 - 2.5U + can of FF
+4 - 157
+6 - 109 - half can of FF
+8 - 135
+10 - 191
PMPS - 251 - 2.5U + can of FF
 
Looks like a pretty normal curve! If you could put together a spreadsheet and link to it in your sig so the history can be seen that would help. Also, the profile would help too so we can see the info on exactly what you kitty is eating and other things.

My only input at this time might be that you might want to consider free feeding [or the closest approximate if your kitty is overweight]. For longer acting insulins like PZI, free feeding is best because the effects of feeding on the curve are minimized. I add water to the wet food to allow it to stay out longer and not get the crusties. Some other freeze the wet food into food cubes and others [typically with overweight cats] use timed feeders. On the other hand if you keep doing well like this then no need to fix what isn't broken.
 
That's a nice looking curve. After a while, you may notice your PS's coming down a bit, but right now your nadir is nice. I'd give it a few cycles (another day or so) and reasses at that point. I second Gator's note and say get a SS. It truly helps you to see the trends that are happening. Does it take Napolean a while to eat or do you pull the food he doesn't finish? Your feeding sounds about the same as mine, but my girls like to come and go, so food's always there and it's still a free feed situation.
 
Thanks Gator and Hope. This is great to hear. I made my spreadsheet and it is set up now, thank you for the guidance.

Napoleon is a savage with his food, he eats very quickly :-) I am sure this will change as he settles into regulation.
 
Looks like a wonderful curve to me: end points not too high, dip not too quick, nadir not too low, and a nice long time in numbers below the renal threshhold; or in other words everything looks pretty darn good. I would figure that you are at a good starting point if you want to move on to tighter regulation, and a not bad place to be if you're not a type A personality.

Cute picture!
 
I would say that is a picture purrfect curve....however WHAT happened tonight at +2 ????
That was certainly an unexpected # and wonder what you think.
If your just starting shooting you can hope for napoleon's #'s to gradually get a bit lower after a week or two.
 
That +2 is what Ari's +1 and +2 used to look like. It may just take a few solid days and for the PS's to lower a bit to kick that out.
 
hope, almost like the body fighting to hold on to those bg's huh?
 
Thanks everyone. Yeah that +2 threw me off too. The only thing I can think of is this is the very first day that he has stayed under 300 for most of the day. This is day 12 on the new insulin so I am assuming it is still adjusting and not even a week on the new dose. Hopefully we can stay under the 300s consistently going forward.
 
We saw results right away on ProZinc, but didn't even start settling in (and stop getting really out there numbers at inappropriate times) until at least 4 or 5 weeks in. Hang in there!
 
Yes I'm thinking 150. He spikes after he eats. He has been at 196 pre shot before and when I waited to shoot he Was well over 300 at +2. Does this sound like a reasonable number? Don't want to put him too low.
 
Most beginners start out at 200. This by no means you *have to* use 200 as yours but it is what is generally suggested to start with. Once you can grab some data and feel comfortable about *perhaps* predicting what kind of delta [change from PS to nadir] they will have at a given dose and PS then then that number drops. Or you might find you want to split the difference and go with something like 180. My thinking is that 2.5U is not a light dose [and not a particularly heavy dose either], so if it were *me* I'd be a little more cautious [but I'm a known chicken when it comes to low numbers :smile: ].

I know you were interested in TR and that usually means a sliding scale. But it appears you are doing consistent doses of 2.5U right now? I'm more of a non-TR, sliding scale type myself [and that is what I'm most comfortable with and giving advice on], others here are more about the consistent dosing which is roughly based on the "start low go slow approach" and find better results with that. Have you read the SLGS page [and others in the sticky] and are there any recommendations in there about no-shoot limits? I'm not sure if anyone in here in PZI is actually actively trying for "TR" but I don't think so. But if you were doing some sort of sliding scale then you would reduce the dose as the number dropped and thus would make *me* more comfortable about starting with a no shoot of 150. Most start out with the SLGS approach or something approximating it and this is probably for good reason.

Anyway, the bottom line is that for safety sake, I just wanted to check to make sure you had thought about the no shoot which it seems you have. I think the rest of my input would not be as safety related so I'll wait until you have your profile completed to add much more.
 
Michelle and I both used TID as a type of tight regulation. We planned on shooting every 8 hours, but if after 6 hours it was over XXX we would shoot early. It was kind of a hybrid between traditional and TR shooting. I know I started my no shoot at 200 until I had enough info and then went down to 180. Just recently moved down to 150. Did a brief stint at 140 but found, for us, Ari would have bounce backs to low numbers even when she hit the low 140's. So I'd have to suggest starting around 200 or 180 until you get good solid data.
 
hope when you said you had bounce back to low #'s after shooting 140's did you mean bounce backs to high #'s?
 
Lori, sorry I didn't explain.

When she went down to the .1 unit needed, I had a shoot # of 140. But a few days ago she hit it and I thought, hmm, let me let her go for another 1/2 hour. She was on a rising number so normally I would have shot. When I checked back, she had gone back to the 130's and then a few hours back to 110. So if I had shot when she hit 140, it would have been too much as she was just in a fluctuation. So then I moved my no shoot back up to 150 to give her body a chance to relearn when to kick Mr. P into gear.

Just trying to illustrate that sometimes a slightly higher no shoot number can be warranted when gathering data and when a dose has been recently changed. We're new to the .1 dose and it's doing well (and doesn't seem like a lot) but that teensy push does wonders for her (fingers crossed that continues.) Once I gather more data, I might be able to go back to a lower shot #.

Prozinc, when it kicks into gear, can sometimes work REALLY well all of a sudden which is nice, but also something to keep an eye on for that same reason.
 
If 200 if the norm for beginners I will stick with that. I want to be safe for him. Once I can get the trending of his BGs on the spreadsheet I can make a comparison. We started him off with the BCP at 2 units. This was after a transition from compounded PZIR which he was started out at 1, then 1.5, then 2 then finally 3 a few days before we switched to the BCP. This was all on a fresh start over BID schedule after hypo numbers on 6 units SID of PZIR. So we lowered the dose to 2 with the BCP, but he was not responding, but the 2.5 seems to be helping so far. I am just happy to start seeing numbers in the 100s after such a while in the high 200s, 300s and sometimes 400s! Thanks for all of your suggestions and input. This really can be very frustrating and it is such a help to talk to those who have gone through/are going through the same with their beloved kitties.
 
FWIW tomtom always goes down an hour or so after a meal...weather i shoot or not. i suppose food is the signal for mr. P to kick in. however i can't count on it going down enough so i shoot. back in the day we would never shoot below 150. now i shoot anything over 120 in the evening becuase i just know he's going up. i usually shoot .5 into 120.
as a newbie it's far better to be safe than sorry. just wanted to show some possibilities for later when you learn your cat.
 
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