4/27 Leo AMPS 349 Vet wants major dose increase

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Tracy & Leo

Tracy & Leo

Member Since 2011
Goooood Morning,

Someone was waiting patiently for breakfast this morning instead of pawing my face an hour before breakfast begging.......*please get up and feed me*. And being very squirmy during needle time, i had to poke poor Leo at least 5 times before i actually got a chance to push the plunger, but he's such a trooper, how did i get so lucky to get a kitty like this?

Have a good day all
 
Re: 4/27 Leo AMPS 349

Hi guys ... how sweet that leo let you sleep that last hour peacefully .. sometimes I wonder how we all got lucky enough to have the best kitties in the world? Amazing, isn't it? :-D Hope leo comes down off the pink floor today ... have a great day guys!
 
So i just spoke to Leo's vet, the same vet that wanted me to start Leo off at 3.5 units twice daily, blindly for 3 weeks. Right now Leo is at 1.5 units twice daily. He wants me to increase Leo's dose to 2.5 :o All of a sudden he wants to know everything about what i'm doing for Leo, and starting to be very controlling, "don't do anything with Leo's dose without consulting me first". Grrrrrrr......just when i was really starting to like the guy he goes and does this. I don't doubt that Leo will probably end up with a dose around 2.0 units, it's just that i refuse to take him up there right now. So i'll increase his dose to 1.75 units tonight and watch him closely for the next few days.

Recap of yesterdays curve:
AMPS 360
+2 365
+4 257
+6 230
+8 283
+10 315
PMPS 313
+4.5 225

And of course i have to go back to work on Friday morning, so i'll be dropping Leo off at his grandparents for the week. No worries tho, his grandparents are excellent (i learnt that last week!) and take very good care of him.
 
When I read your post, I had to look to see where you live. My vet started Champ at 3u b.i.d. right from the get-go and, because I didn't know any better, I did it. She also said to come back in three weeks for a curve. When I told her I could test his sugars at home with the glucometer that I used for myself, she said that would be fine, just check his BG at pre-shot, four hours, and 8 hours. After being on this message board, we all know that's crap. First of all, why do vets want us to shoot insulin, especially at such high doses, into our cats and not check their sugars beforehand? And why do they want us to wait three weeks? And who would call three pokes at those intervals a "curve"? I think there needs to be better education in vet school about feline diabetes; it's quite apparent it's sadly lacking.
 
REALLY glad to hear you know that slow, steady increases are the way to go - not huge jumps shot blindly! Good for you. Slow and steady wins this race, for sure.
 
Oh geez Patty, how scary that must be now that you know better, thank god i found this website before i even started dosing Leo so i didn't take the vets advice and started off low 1.0 units. Plus when we went in to get the insulin and syringes he mentioned hypoglycemia and said that Leo would probably go into hypoglycemia "but that's just the risk you take". WTH? There is just no need for any cat to go into hypo, the feeling i got from him was "oh well its just a cat, it doesn't matter if he goes hypo". :evil:

You know the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon has the only veterinary college in western Canada.....thats a scary thought. Especially when i went to the vet college's small animal clinic yesterday looking for Methyl B12 for Leo's neuropathy.....NOBODY had any idea what neuropathy was and how to treat it, and these are either vet's already or vets-in-training. I talked to the veterinary pharmacist and she had never heard of methylcobalamin. At that moment i just thought to myself that i already know more about diabetes in cats than most vets do......and that is a very sad thought.
 
My first vet was very much like that and even admitted when Guinness was first diagnosed that she didn't know much about feline diabetes and then went a head and gave me some crazy dosing protocol from some other random vet that was created years ago. She also fought me every step of the way in regards to me using a human glucometer. Not listening to them was the best thing I ever did and thank goodness I found this website and the wonderful people here to guide me and Guinness to the falls two years ago.

I now have a new vet this second time around, but she is much more open to learning and investigating things for me. She still gave me some wonky dosing advice, but I told her I was going in the direction of the way I went last time, start low and go slow. She knows I'm the kind who is going to do what I want, so she just let's me do it. Plus, she's trusted me with some home care stuff for my cats a long time ago. It's really great to have a supportive cat.

It is disheartening that vets don't seem to have the experience and knowledge for feline diabetes. I'm finding that a lot of vets just think it's a death sentence and want to pacify you until you come around to that understanding. I'm wondering if there is more attention paid to canine diabetes?

I agree that you should take in all the advice and then ultimately decide for yourself what is best for Leo. When it comes down to it, I'm guessing your instincts are spot on.
 
i hear ya on the vet issue. i've realized in the past few years that i've lost confidence in "experts." used to be, i trusted the doc, the pastor, the vet, the dentist, the pharmacist, etc. to know best - one by one i've lost that confidence. now i feel an enormous burden to check everything and be up to speed myself. when my mom was sick (and died) i kept looking online to try to find information about what was going on with her because i didn't feel the docs were being aggressive at all, and she had something unknown going on. we still don't know exactly what killed her because, honestly, if i had to say, i would say a bladder infection was the final straw. they put leukemia on her death certificate, but the leukemia never even got bad enough to start treating it.

the internet and information availability has changed everything. experts no longer have the corner on information.

so that was a long-winded way of saying good for you! there is no other advocate for Leo except you - so even though it's a responsibility, it's so important to go with what you think is right.

not that i'm advocating lying, but your vet won't know the amount you are shooting if you don't volunteer it. at some point you might want another vet.
 
No kidding the internet has changed the way everything works today. I guess most people think that doctors know everything and for the most part doctors also think they know everything (from the way they act) but it turns out, sadly that no one knows everything, including the so called "experts".

When the vet gave me Leo's dx he told me that Leo would not last 2 years with this disease........so in April 2013 i should plan to walk into his clinic with Leo and just say "HAH!!!" and turn around and leave. I think it may be time to start looking around for a new vet, one that doesn't also treat large animals would be nice!

And Julie i'm sorry to hear about your mom, I know all too well about how fast a bladder infection can turn into a severe kidney infection.....and you can go from 0 to 100 in a matter of hours.
 
Tracy & Leo said:
So i just spoke to Leo's vet, the same vet that wanted me to start Leo off at 3.5 units twice daily, blindly for 3 weeks. Right now Leo is at 1.5 units twice daily. He wants me to increase Leo's dose to 2.5 :o All of a sudden he wants to know everything about what i'm doing for Leo, and starting to be very controlling, "don't do anything with Leo's dose without consulting me first".
Click to expand...


grr_red The guy starts you out on a dose that was *way* too high and could have hypoed your cat, and now he expects you to take his dosing advice like it's law? Honestly, I would not involve him in your dosing and start shopping for a new vet. I've switched vets over less! Call a few, let them know up front you have a diabetic cat and ask them about their recommended dosing and treatment. If a vet recommends daily hometesting and a gentle insulin then chances are they will work with you on the dosing.

I guess I've never had a problem arguing with doctors or vets because I've always done my research the moment any major concern arises. If I disagree with you, I will have the research in my hand to back up my opinion. I think that's why I make a pretty good librarian. :-D
 
Tracy & Leo said:
When the vet gave me Leo's dx he told me that Leo would not last 2 years with this disease
Click to expand...

Well, maybe none of the cats he's treated have lasted more than 2 years with diabetes if he's starting them out on 3.5u, switching them to dry food, recommending hometesting every 3 weeks and saying that's it's normal to hypo! :shock:
 
Hi Tracy, There is absolutely no reason why you have to involve your vet in Leo's day-to-day FD treatment. Many of us have gone it alone, following the protocol and the incredible cumulative experience represented by the people on this board. You need a vet for other problems, but FD you can tackle yourself. Good luck in finding a new vet, hopefully not one of the dictator types!

Ella & Rusty
 
Mala's diagnosis came from a country vet who put her on Vetsulin and recommended a dose of 2u BID. He sent us home with Science Diet diabetic wet food - which she wouldn't eat - and told me that human glucometers aren't effective with cats. I asked him how long she would be likely to survive, and he said that most diabetic kitties live for 2 years or so post-diagnosis. :shock: He also wanted me to bring her in after 3 weeks to run labs again.

In other words, had I followed his advice, Mala would have been dead a long time ago. Instead, I found this board, took advice, and she went OTJ a month later. She was at the falls until an ear infection forced me to take her to a vet, who gave her ear drops with steroids. grr_red

With luck, she'll be back at the falls soon. But I can't thank the people who care enough to help out others with their precious sugar kitties. Thank you to everyone, on behalf of myself and everyone else.
 
I use my vet for the lantus prescription. :lol: Had I not found this board when she was diagnosed I don't doubt for a second I would have come home to a dead cat. My vet, and I quote, said "it is nearly impossible for a cat on 1 unit of insulin to hypo."

Hope the dose increase brings Leo down for you!
 
Tracy: I'm so glad you trusted your instincts and keep on keepin on with the protocol. It works. All cats may not get off insulin but the hope is always first for regulation, then tight regulation and then who knows. There have been cats who have been on insulin for close to or over two years and have gone OTJ with the help from folks in LL. So you are smart to ignore his advice....is he there in the middle of the night if Leo were to hypo? No...but usually one of us is. You all are doing fine...you'll get to his dose that will give him the numbers you want to start seeing.
 
There are so many people who come here with stories about their vets' less than stellar advice. The good news is that you found a better resource and hopefully, you can find a vet who will work with you and is more knowledgeable about feline diabetes.

I'm glad you raised Leo's dose. Good luck with the increase.
 
Well thanks for all the kind words of encouragement. I've heard that saying before "use the vet for a Lantus script and use the board for everything else".

As much as i'm starting to dislike my vet i'm in a pickle with him. I work in a northern, remote, fly-in minesite and am gone for 7 days at a time, during that time my parents take care of Leo, they live an hours drive from me in Saskatoon and they live on an acreage. The closest town is where Leo's vet is located and if something were to ever happen to Leo while he's at his grandparents (i hope to god nothing does happen) this vet is the closest vet around for at least an hour......so i'm in a pickle. He's only a 15 minute drive away from my parents house. Accccckkkk!!!! What to do? I don't want to break up with him on bad terms, but i'm not going to listen to his so called "expert" advice, and at this point he's becoming more controlling, and eventually going to find out i didn't follow his advice next week when he's expecting to see a curve from me.
 
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