4/27 AMPS 301, +1~455 advice needed

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Stephanie&Willy

Stephanie&Willy

Member Since 2011
Hello all!

I am new to the forums and I am seeking some advice and guidance in helping my kitty Willy with his diabetes. confused_cat I am open to trying just about anything at this point. We only recently began home testing and it’s clear to us that even though he’s feeling and acting better (a lot better than he was a year ago) he is still miles away from being healthy and we want to do the best that we can to get there. Though I have read a lot of the wonderful articles and information on this site, I am very overwhelmed and I really don’t know where to go from here.

I posted an introduction here
But it is very long winded.

The tldr version:
*Willy is a big orange 9 y/o DHS
*He was DX in July 2010 when he went into DKA
*Since his release from the hospital (for the DKA) he has been on Lantus
*We started dose @1u 2x a day
*We have slowly crept up to 4.5u 2x a day- never more than a 0.5 increase, always waited AT LEAST a week before increasing again
*We give his shots in his side or shoulder
*We replace insulin every 6-8 weeks and we do our best to store it correctly
*He eats Fancy Feast Classic varieties (the lower carb ones with a very occasional fish thrown in), the vet has tried to have us switch him (3 times) to a prescript food but his stomach doesn’t seem to tolerate it. He is on 2 cans 2x a day (4 total). We also give him Methyl-B12 and vitamin E.
*As far as food goes, Willy is a ravenous eater and eats very very quickly. He has always done this, since the day we took him in. We do not give him treats right now because it sends him into a frenzy and gets upset when he can’t find more to eat.
*We do foot pricks using the ReliOn meter from Walmart. He won’t tolerate ear pricks (doesn’t care at all about the foot pricks).
*There are no underlying health issues or additional health issues that we are aware of
*His spreadsheet is in my signature
*I don't know if this is relevant but on 4/24 my husband and I made an error that led to Willy getting 6u in the AM (we think). His BG dropped and stayed comfortably in the 100s for quite awhile. We got very lucky and won't make a similar mistake again.

I appreciate any advice/guidance/tips/insight that anyone can give us and I look forward to getting to know everyone here!

Thank you!
Stephanie & Willy
 
Hi guys .. I have to say it sounds like you are doing everything right for your kitty, hometesting, wet cat food, proper insulin storage, etc. Are you asking for help in regards to getting his numbers down, or are you looking for something else? Sometimes reading all the posts on this site can be overwhelming so make sure you take the time to breathe .. we are all here to try and answer your questions the best we can ..

I myself don't feel comfortable giving you advice on changing his dose or anything like that .. but I will say sometimes it just takes cat's a long time to start showing really good steady low numbers .. mocha was on insulin for 22 long months before she even got close to being regulated and then before we knew it, she was off the insulin!

Hang in there guys, others will be around soon I'm sure!

edit: Maybe now that hometesting is something you are going to do on a regular basis, starting over at a lower dose might be a smart idea? If you weren't hometesting on a regular basis before, you could have missed your kitty's "ideal" dose .. but wait and see what others think, ok?
 
Thank you for the response! I am glad your Mocha was able to get OTJ! That's very inspiring to us.

I guess I am asking for advice in dosing... unless there is something else important I may want to try ! I know he is capable of having lower numbers, but I don't know how to get them down there (and keep them there more frequently). I do understand they will probably still bounce and be inconsistent for a long time still.

We were planning to start over this week (wanted to start on a Monday) after some advice about him possibly being on too high of a dose, however, with the mistake we made on 4/24 where we think he wound up getting 6u, his BG was much better... so now I am confused. :YMSIGH:

Its so overwhelming. When I'm reading things, I find myself getting a headache because I clench my jaw really tight and forget to breath. I think digesting the information is more difficult than the actual treatment has been (we got a lot of flack from everyone when we decided to treat because we are a young family). We are very lucky that Willy has been such a trooper. He doesn't mind his shots at all and is fine with us pricking his feet (totally will NOT tolerate having his ears pricked, though).
 
you are obviously doing really well! taking in all the info is hard and you'll have to hear things more than once to fully get it. there are several dosing experts on this forum who can give you some ideas, but perhaps the hardest thing to hear is that you have to adjust slowly most of the time. not always, but . . .

anyway, welcome! you'll be hearing from someone more expert before long, i'm sure!
 
Yes, we were very happy to get mocha OTJ but not every cat makes it there .. but as long as they are feeling good (not drinking a lot, peeing a lot) and playing, cleaning themselves, well, you have to look at the whole picture, not just the numbers for the day, ok? I know it's hard to do, cause we all want our kitties to have nice low numbers, but some days, it just ain't gonna happen :-D As you know, FD is all about patience .. we can't rush it, as much as we'd like to!

I wish I could help explain dosing and why maybe his BG's were nicer at a higher dose .. but I'm not good at that stuff and I don't want to give you the wrong information ...

We got a lot of flack too from our families .. We were in our 20's when mocha was diagnosed and for us, because it was our choice, we gave up doing a lot of family activities, vacations, camping, etc .. but it was our choice, and we don't regret doing it at all .. mocha is worth it ..

At least willy does not mind his shots .. mocha could care less about ear testing but boy oh boy, when it came to shot time, she gave us a run for our money .. and I'm not just talking the first week or so .. I'm talking all 22 months, right up to her last shot :lol: So I guess there's something to be thankful for!!!
 
Welcome Stephanie and Willie!

This is a great place for information! I like Willys photo!
 
Welcome to Lantus Land!

If I understand correctly, Willy was diagnosed in July 2010 and you just started home testing? Did you ever have curves done at the vet's office and did the vet give you the results?

When you say that you worked the dose up to a dose of 4.5u, over what period of time? Was that since July when Willy was diagnosed?

Also, just one word of caution. Do not re-shoot if you give a fur shot. You have no idea how much insulin actually went in. You could easily overdose you cat by re-shooting.

I'd like to suggest you look over the dosing protocol we use. It's in the Tight Regulation sticky note. Based on that protocol, I would suggest that you increase Willy's dose tomorrow morning (after 3 days/6 cycles) to 4.75u.

Another question - do you have syringes that are marked in half unit increments?
 
Hi, Stephanie,

Just stopping by to say welcome to Lantus Land. This is a wonderful place, with informed, experienced and generous people. They saved my kitty's life -- and like Mocha, he is also OTJ, after 15 months on insulin.

I just want to add that you shouldn't be scared by the number of units you're giving. My Kitty's "breakthrough" dose came at around 5.5 units.

I agree with Devon -- sounds like you and your husband are on the right road to get Willy's diabetes better controlled. Sienne raised great questions and knows her stuff inside out!

Good luck. We'll look forward to following Willy's progress.
 
Hello Julie, Bev, Kathy, and Smokey
Thank you all for the warm welcome and encouraging words.


Devon-
My kitty is a major bum. He has never been one to clean himself (we’ve had to wipe him down in the past) nor is he a big fan of playing. I know he isn’t feeling well when he sleeps in the bathroom. Its really dark and quiet in there. He hasn’t slept in there in awhile and he has been occasionally scratching one of the many scratch pads we have out, so that’s good. It’s a big deal because we have to check his nails several times a week for sheaths that were not shed properly from his lack of scratching, he’s gotten one stuck in his foot in the past.

No need to explain dosing, I truly appreciate the “emotional” support you’re giving!

We are in our mid 20s now. Our flack is mostly because we can’t just up and visit our families or go out with our friends at night (we are home bodies but they are bar flies). We brought Willy to the MIL over Christmas and boy was she mad but she could have come here. She declined the invitation. We’re not comfortable leaving him with someone yet. We love him and he’s an important part of our fur family -- he helps our other 2 kitties (one is skittish and he gets him to come out, the other is a bully and he keeps him in line).



Hello Sienne and Gabby

Willy was diagnosed in July 2010 and we started home testing recently. We did not have curves done at our vet’s office but we did have fructosamine tests done. The vet we were working with in 2010 did not feel curves were an accurate representation of BG since they MAY cause stress to the cat. The clinic was also not equipped to do them. He didn’t encourage home testing previously because he was not comfortable with it. He said all his experiences with it in the past were very negative, often resulting in angry cats or owners. It basically made the situation seem and feel impossible. The clinic hired a new vet this year (who is our current vet) and she is much more knowledgeable and she’s pretty supportive and encouraged us to do home testing. We realize now how silly we were being… We were very overwhelmed and felt like we were being brushed off. We started accepting the situation and became complacent in things being “OK.” For some reason, I felt inspired to try to make things better this month and not just let myself feel helpless or uncomfortable so here I am.

We worked up to the 4.5u since Willy was diagnosed in July. The old vet had us holding doses for 1-4 weeks and increasing by what seemed to be random amounts (.25, .5, .25 only in the PM, .5 only in the AM). We never decreased.

The re-shooting was a major mistake in communication. My husband told me he did not give Willy his shot. I tested him and his BG was over 500. I gave him a reduced dose since it was my believe he was getting his shot late. I found out later that he meant he may have missed. We tested him like crazy that night. It was a really horrible miscommunication and we really were lucky that the outcome was ok.

Our syringes are marked in half units.

I appreciate the link to the dosing protocol. I’ve read so much in the last few weeks its hard to keep everything straight.

I wanted to add, my dog is named Gizmo!
 
Stephanie... I read your post to Sienne. :mrgreen: I completely relate to the part about looking back on your experience with your vet -- 20/20 hindsight. We went through the same thing. You're very lucky to have a supportive vet who understands testing.

It's all overwhelming at first, but things will fall into place quickly. I really believe Willy will do well here.

Good night.
 
Good for you for becoming proactive and wanting to take hold of the reins! The amount of information here is completely overwhelming. All of us have been there and know how daunting getting started with this process can be. It gets easier. I promise.

What helps to make it easier is what you're seeing -- if you ask questions or just can't figure out what's going on, people here are very generous with their time and their knowledge. We really are here to help. We want you to get comfortable with managing Willy's diabetes.

The information in the Tight Regulation sticky is a modification of the formal version of the Lantus protocol that was published in a leading vet journal. The protocol, developed by Roomp & Rand at the University of Queensland, is linked in the sticky. That version is one you may want to share with your vet. If you want the actual journal article, let me know. The authors used cats from the German counterpart of this forum for their data. The German forum has web-published their version -- the Tilly Protocol. That link is also in the sticky. The modified version is easier to read

As far as the other sticky notes, I'd also suggest reading the New to the Group note. There are a ton of links in there. Make sure you have a hypo kit or at the very least, you are well stocked with high carb food.

Please let us know how we can help.
 
Thank you guys for all your kindness and support and for taking a moment to pop in and say hello!

Thank you Sienne for all your help. I appreciate the time you are spending helping me (and others!)

I put together a hypo kit when Willy came home from the hospital after the DKA but it was all over the kitchen. I knew where everything was, but my husband did not so I bought a plastic container on Friday to put everything in so we can keep it in one place. :-D In the kit we have:
-Instructions/Guidelines
-Extra test strips (brand new)
-Extra lances
-Syringe from the vet for food/water/syrup/etc
-A small syringe with a longer bottom part that would work for the other end, if necessary (I think it's meant for giving children medication but the tip is thin and not overly long but long enough if that makes sense)
-Vaseline (in such a case that we need to utilize the above syringe)
-A glucose shake thing, it's all natural and I plan to take this kit with us if we ever have to travel with kitty in the future and may or may not have access to water
-2 cans of higher carb cat food from my "oh no we miscounted how much food we need for this week" stash that we give to our other cats if we start to run low on Fancy Feast.

My older cat prefers dry food over wet food. We usually give him 90% wet food with 10% dry because he really does like it better. It's a grain free "mature" formula, would that be ok for Willy in hypo? If it were an emergency could we give dog kibble if needed (we feed grain free and bounce between Blue Buffalo single source proteins and Orijen)?

Willy wears a collar with a special tag we made stating he is a diabetic and needs medical attention in case he ever gets out somehow. It's never happened but people let their cats out a lot around here so if it did I hope it would help.

I would love the article if you have it and wouldn't mind sharing. As I get more comfortable, it would definitely be something I would be interested in reading. I also think it would be beneficial to share it with my vet as you mentioned. I will try to read through the others in the next few days, too. :-D Someone also suggested that I print out other information and put it together in a notebook (I think it was the other Willie's momma) and I am going to do that too. I do much better when I read things on paper vs. on a screen.

I read vitamin E is beneficial for diabetics. How much would be a good amount to give to Willy?

Thank you again for your time helping me, it's really helping to ease a lot of my anxiety!
 
the dry kibble isn't usually used for treating low numbers because it takes longer to kick in and it lasts longer. we use the gravy part of the higher carb canned foods or karo syrup (or honey, or maple syrup) because they increase the blood sugar within about 15-20 minutes and don't last too long.

i don't know anything about your vitamin E question, but someone else may.

you can breathe now - you're beginning a marathon and you gotta last! :lol: seriously though, we all understand putting the cat's needs over our social lives. kitties ARE family, after all!

have a great day!
 
I love your hypo kit!

One question: Do you know that he will eat the glucose shake thing? I'm wondering if you might also like to have honey in the house (if not the kit), or maple syrup -- just in case he rejects the glucose thing he is supposed to eat. Just a thought.

Otherwise, you are well-organized!
 
Just wanted to stop by and say welcome! I'm on my second week here on the boards and want to reiterate that the support here has been amazing. The people here are true guardian angels. I know what you're going through -- all the information is overwhelming but it really does get easier. Even though Junior's numbers are still high, he's acting like his old self now thanks to the advice of these people. Just take baby steps when you try to absorb all the information. It's been 2 weeks at this board and I'm still trying to process it all.

Welcome!!!
 
Hi Stephanie and Willy! Welcome!

Willy sounds very similar to my cat, Guinness. He's also a fast, ravenous eater that is always looking for his next meal. He also hates the ear pokes and gladly accepts the poke in the paw for some baked chicken. And we also you that handy ReliOn meter from Walmart.

I'm so glad you've introduced yourself and Willy. I don't have dosing advice, but I think you've got some good answers already. I think when it comes to this forum, no answer is too stupid (at least that's what I tell myself :? ) when it comes to our cats.

I'm interested in watching Willy's progress! Again, Welcome!
 
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