4/26 Thumper's AMPS LOW

Status
Not open for further replies.
Barbara

Barbara

Very Active Member
Just in case anyone happens to be here....

AMPS 141

Waiting 20 mins....if rising & above 180...shoot .2? UGH....it's too early for this!
 
UGH.....she's headed down...it's 124 now...gonna hold off on feeding another 20 mins. Not shooting
 
So we are back up now 146. I can't wait any longer to feed them. I'm not shooting this morning.
 
I don't get it at all!! 35 mins after the last reading & after she ate 1/2 can FF she is back down to 123???? I have to leave. Don't have time for the SS right now but here are the #'s during a span of 1.5 hrs.

141
124
146
fed
123

No shot. I opened a new batch of test strips this morning, does that matter at all? Could my meter be wrong? I just purchased it on April 8th, it's the Wal Mart Confirm (in pretty pink for my girl!). I will try to check back from work just to see what ya'll think. And I don't have to worry about her going hypo since no shot this AM, right? If I have to I'll leave work. confused_cat
 
With no insulin no hypo. What time zone are you in?

You wouldn't think that .4u would be too much on a 230ish bg, but now we know that the next time your PS is 100 points lower than your last PS you can lower your dose.

I would move the dose to .3u now. You will probably have a higher number tonight but that's ok. Better too high for a day than to low for a minute.

Try to have a nice day.

Robin
 
Robin, I'm in Eastern time zone. Will you be around about 6:30 eastern tonight? That's when I would typically test, feed & shoot, but I might be able to go earlier by an hour if needed. I don't know if it's better to go early tonight or go back to my regular schedule since I only have about an hour to play with tomorrow am? I hate that .3 dose....so hard to see! And these Walgreen syringes don't move smoothly. I'm ordering some monoject from Hocks, seems like no one in town has the BD or Monoject that I need. I'm going with the 1/2 inch needle, don't think I could do the shorter one. Judy, thanks for the happy thought! I need it! :smile: Geez, considering how low she was this morning it's a little scary to wonder how low she went from 11pm last night till 6:15am! nailbite_smile
 
I'm in the Midwest, what is that 2 hours difference? I could be on until 6:20 your time but then will be off for 1-1/2 hours.

Why do you hate the .3u dose? You're moving in the right direction. Next .2u then .1u then 0, happy dance!!!

Judy is right, you can leave the food out for her to eat if she needs to. I have been experimenting with freezing the food in an ice cube tray and leaving a cube in the bowl to melt for a snack later, on days that I do that Harley's PS's are usually in the 80 to 90 range but if I forget his PS's are over 120.

Are you pushing the plunger back and forth to spread out the lubricant when you open it? No one told me about that at first ohmygod_smile
 
I do leave food out at night, I freeze the entire can & make sure there is food out when I go to bed. No telling how much Petey eats though! I leave 2 frozen cans out when I leave for work for the 4 cats & it's always gone when I get home.

I hate the .3 dose cause it's hard to see, it's bad enough trying to do .2 or .4 but to get in the middle is hard. I wish it was larger! I didn't know about the lubricant but I do move the plunger before I draw the insulin. I haven't had a problem before so I think it's just this brand?

Ok, my plan will be to test around 6:00 Eastern time, so I will post then. Thank you so much!
 
:lol: I thought when you said it was hard to see it meant it made you sad. I soooo get the hard to see that tiny dose.

Well Judy our fashionesta used to wear two pairs of readers at the same time to see those doses, I never thought of that I put readers on over my regular glasses and bought a syringe magnifyer to help measure those doses (although it is very clumsy).
 
WHOOO HOOO!!!!! I think Thumper's lookin like a kitty who wants to go off the juice.... and that is one of the scariest times for the mama beans. this is scary, great and wonderful all at the same time. tom does the food drop too which is definet pancreatic action. makes it hard for me to shoot him...and then he does'nt ALWAYS do it.
This is your very very special time and I'll be watching...with all fingers and paws around here crossed.
 
Thanks, Robin. I like being called a fashionista---especially for 2 pairs of glasses at once. My kids always make fun of me.(for that and similar stunts).
 
I forgot to add my 2 cents. If she's high I'd go with .3u. If she's lowish wait and test again to make sure you have a rising # and definately over 200.
 
ok, went with .3 should I check her again in 30 mins or so to see if she goes up or down since she went down this morning after she ate?
 
Good choice, I don't think your going to get a huge drop in 30 minutes, but any data you want to get is valuable.

And if I were you I think that I would make it a habit to test twice 20 to 30 minutes apart when she's in lower numbers to make sure you are getting a rising #. She seems to be getting a really long ride most cycles.
 
I was curious so I tested at +1 & she was 353. It's supposed to be rising at that point isn't it?
 
at +1 you may begin to see some action. more likely thumper is producing a little after dinner insulin.
 
You're right, they usually keep rising the first hour or two. I suspect you have some P action going, that is why I suggested staying with the lower dose even on a high number to compensate for it.

Keep testing if you can to see where you are headed.
 
I guess this is a good thing. +3 is 230 I was gonna wait but I got some food out to put in the freezer & they all came begging. I wanted to get a # before she ate anything else. I will test again before I go to bed...maybe in another 1.5 hrs so I will post that. It will be a +5, if she's still dropping do I need to be concerned?

I'm anticipating lower in the morning....don't know what to do?
 
I wouldn't be worried at a +5 unless the # itself is lowish, like a 60 say. Then I'd probably feed some LC and monitor/recheck.

Low in the morning = test and recheck until you get a shootable number, and then reduce the dose by another 0.1u. If you don't have time to recheck and the number is close to your no-shoot, I'd shoot a reduced dose. If the number is quite low, like 120 or something, I'd skip the shot.
 
Joanna, is LC low carb? I was thinking if she was going low I was supposed to feed high carb?

In the morning, I don't even know what my no shoot # is anymore? I'm thinking 180? Last week it was 200, but I guess I need to lower it? I have about 1.5 hrs to play with in the am, so I will check & recheck before I feed her. So maybe if she's lower than 180 recheck & if she's going higher (before food) go ahead & shoot .2 instead of .3 (which is what I shot tonight)? And if she never gets to 180 skip again? And if she's dropping don't shoot. I think I have learned ONE thing & I've written it in several places - Don't shoot a dropping number! LOL!
 
LC is low carb and a 60 at +5 is no need to whip out the HC....actually you don't want to whip out the HC unless you have a drop to 60 in the early hour of +1-3....or a below 40 at +5...even then a LC and 15 minute testing is best so as not to over correct the numbers.
 
Barbara you might want to try what I do to see how much Mr. P is working. get your number at +11. feed. get your +12 and if it's on it's way down you got a food drop and will shoot accordingly. if it's on it's way up you shoot the +11 number.
make sense?
you can do the same thing at +12...if you want..feed, wait , test again and see what's going on.
food droppers are hard to deal with.
 
The idea of feeding low BG numbers is because the body responds to the food and the BG rises. But you don't have to start with the big guns (high carb). You can give low carb, or medium carb, and ifnthat isn't enough, move on to high carb. But you don't start off with that because you don't want the BG to rise too high if it isn't necessary. I used to keep cans labeled with the number of carbs written on them so I was all set to deal with any kind of numbers.
 
yes Judy...there is a fine art of treating low numbers. if you have the time to stick around and the strips. too often people over do it. it's sad to watch a whole cycle aborted unnecessarily.
use the notion if you will..of gently steering the numbers.
it helps if you've ever gone thru a potential hypo with others on board. they used to happen so often i think we've all hung around for one.
i can dig up a little fun game i put out once called 'steering the numbers....what would you do' and i put in different scenario's to see how you would handle them.
 
instead of looking it up...here's a brief.
amps 280
+2 58

what would you do?

or......................

amps 280
+2 210
+7 43

what would you do?

very different responses...wanna play?
 
Sounds like you have a handle on what to do in the morning. The idea of the no-shoot is to start at 200 and collect data, and lower it as you are data ready to do so. I don't have the energy to study your SS right now, but hopefully that helps. If you have shot before around 200 and didn't get a low nadir, then you lower it to 180. So if you don't have that data, you keep it at 200. That said, the doses are so tiny I wouldn't worry too much. I'd rather see you shoot 0.2 at 180 than skip the shot (I can be swayed if others overrule that!!!). You can also shoot a fat 0, basically just one drop of insulin, if you are over 150 and want to shoot something rather than skipping the shot. As long as her symptoms aren't too bad though and ketones are negative, I don't think there's a big risk in skipping a shot at this point.
 
Feed MC to the 1st - I think a LC for the second, retesting on both in 15 mins? I'm really bad at this!

I really can't keep it all straight! And I would never forgive myself if I did the wrong thing & she died. This is way over my head! I'm hoping I never have to face it. Thanks you guys!
 
Exactly Barbara...you got it!
And please don't worry about facing this....the thing is you will face it. hopefully not too soon but we all do eventually. it means your cat is getting better.
And honey they don't die. They are resiliant. Your here and your cat will NOT die of a hypo...no way. you are too carefull for that. NOT GONNA HAPPEN ok?
 
Joanna, I just realized I haven't even updated it....I get the no energy! Just got a +5 it was 252.

Lori, yes she dropped this morning after she ate & no shot this morning. I can't believe I answered that question right! Thanks for the encouragment everyone, it's good to know you are here. Hopefully tomorrow AM will be uneventful! I'm off for the night!
 
OK, do NOT stress about hypo on the doses you are on. It might not be completely out of the question, I mean, don't shoot a dose that is higher than you think is right, but also don't make yourself frantic.

I'd break out the HC on the 1st - just a few bites and test in 15 minutes. If the #s came up a lot by then I might switch to MC (like that term!), but I would expect 3 bites of HC every 20 minutes to barely keep a ride going in safe #s. I wouldn't want to go Karo on it and get up into the 300s or anything, unless we got closer to 40, but we've seen peeps up all night feeding a pretty good amount of HC every half hour on a drop like that, and just coasting in greens with hardly any bump in the #s. ECID though - you feed, retest, and see how it goes. And if you overdo and go high, it's not the end of the world (better than a hypo), and then you get a sense from that of what the food can do, so next time (hopefully there's no next time!) you know better what to do.

Now I would probably moderate that a little bit for Thumper b/c the dose is so low you might not need a lot to counteract it. I don't know, Bix never responded at all to doses like 0.2, so to me it's almost a non-dose. So maybe don't listen to me, LOL, talk to the low dosers (Holly?).
 
Joanna I may have a lev brain attached to my head now and have a hard time speaking pzi...but my recollection is that a little HC or MC will slow the drop...and PZI will stop it's drop by +6 for the most part. Once the number goes up a bit...past 80 or so...and a teaspoon could do that...is'nt it true that pzi does not usually make another u turn...unlike the lev or lantus which is an all day affair.
in any case..if HC is used in the first one..i would use the smallest amount and test and no more HC or MC until a second drop happens...if it happens.
 
Barbara, many of us need to read this letter from out kitties when we first start. It was written by a famous sugar kitty named Rainbow to his Mommy because, well, you'll see.




Dear Mom,

I know it's only been a couple of days, but there are a few things I'd like to tell you.

First of all, you really do have to calm down, because you're stressing me out.

Please at least let me get all the way out of the litter box before you start to inspect it.

Don't stare at me while I'm eating. It makes me nervous. I need a little privacy please.

You really don't have to follow me from one room to the next. I'm not doing anything that I haven't done a million times before. I'm still trying to catch those pesky fish that live behind the glass. I'm chasing the dust bunnies under your desk. I'm waiting to catch Libby (drooler) off guard so I can smack her and run. I'm doing all those catly things I've always done. I don't need a perpetual audience.

Just because I'm sleeping, doesn't mean that you need to wake me up and check on me every five minutes. I'm a cat. I sleep.

I feel hot because I've been lying in my favorite sunny spot in the office. Yes, that really is the only reason.

I know it would make you feel better if I slept in your bed with you, but it wouldn't make me feel better. I've never done that before, so it would feel funny to start doing it now. Besides, I really like my bed. I've had it a long time, you know.

It doesn't mean that something is wrong with me just because I don't want to play. Don't you remember the rules? When you want to play with me, I want to ignore you and treat you with disdain. I want to play with you when you are reading the newspaper or attempting to drink your first cup of coffee. This has always worked for us, so why would I want to change that now? So if I don't want to play with you, it doesn't necessarily mean that I don't feel good. It means that I'm just being the Rainbow I've always been.

Stop lecturing (boyfriend) every time you leave the house for five minutes. He has read everything you have. He was there at the vet's when you picked me up. He knows all the signals/symptoms of hypo, and he knows what to do. He knows where the syrup is. How could he not, since it's now in every room in the house. Remember when you told me that you would trust him with your life? Well trust him with mine. He loves you, and he won't let anything happen to me.

You know that pounding headache you've had since last Sunday? It might go away if you'd chill out just a little bit.

And lastly, every single sound I make need not be analyzed for meaning. Just because I speak to you, it doesn't mean I'm sick or hurting or getting ready to go hypo. I've always been a very vocal kitty. Sometimes a meow really is just a meow.

Love,
Rainbow
 
lori and tom said:
Joanna I may have a lev brain attached to my head now and have a hard time speaking pzi...but my recollection is that a little HC or MC will slow the drop...and PZI will stop it's drop by +6 for the most part. Once the number goes up a bit...past 80 or so...and a teaspoon could do that...is'nt it true that pzi does not usually make another u turn...unlike the lev or lantus which is an all day affair.
in any case..if HC is used in the first one..i would use the smallest amount and test and no more HC or MC until a second drop happens...if it happens.
Click to expand...

If you were at 60 at +2 and HC got you up to 80, they definitely can drop back down once the HC wears off, so I would keep testing & feeding past nadir. Bix used to do the bulk of his dropping between +2 and +4 if I remember right, then it would ease off into a lighter drop til around +6.5. He would often drop something like 40-60 points between +2 and +3 and again up to +4, so if I got a 60 at +2 I would be pulling out the HC, and staying with it through nadir. I do agree on the small amounts. Three bites was enough to give Bix a bump up, so something like 3 bites every 1/2 hour might have kept him in a nice surf. I probably wouldn't feed as much as a teaspoon, that would have put him in the 300s!

We have seen other cats though, I'm sure you have seen this too on Health, where they were all but pumping in HC and Karo on something like a +2 60, and the numbers barely even broke 80 for hours. Til +8 or something where they started going skyhigh.

I think a lot depends on how much the dose actually was - 2u vs. 0.2 for instance, and the cats patterns. Some cats get a +2 60 and then trough w/o even much feeding. So I guess a lot of it is ECID. The better anyone knows their cat and their patterns, the better they can control it.

p.s. I should mention the food I used w/Bix was like 12-13% carb I think, so maybe that is MC and I don't know what I'm talking about? ohmygod_smile
 
but joanna are'nt those double and triple dippers on lev or lantus.
i kinda thought once you got to 100 on pzi your pretty much done...barring an obvious serious overdose.
 
ok, you lost me Lori, I don't know Lev speak ;)

It really depends I think on how fast the HC wears off. If they shoot up and don't come back down, then no biggie. If they are 50 at every 1/2 hour retest and you are feeding HC, then you keep testing, right?
 
sorry joanna. both of the L insulins take a LONNNNNG time to rise from a low number. that is why they are good to use. they tend to hang onto a number all day long....that's why you can shoot low. they just stay there!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top