4/25 Pumbaa AMPS/471 +3/334 +5/306 +6/368 +7/362

Status
Not open for further replies.
Pumbaa

Pumbaa

Member Since 2012
Against all recommendations last night (and I truly DO thank you all for your advice, input and recommendations) I dosed Pumbaa at 0.50U again this morning. The 471 this morning was most likely a bounce after the 270 at +6 last night.

I've learned so much, like instead of upping Pumbaa to 1.50U on 4/23, I should have waited due to the fur shot/didn't-get-a-full-dose-'cause-he-wiggled on 4/21. Now I know to start counting the cycles from the beginning starting with the first dose after a fur shot. I know to watch for new-dose-wonkiness, and someone had mentioned also to not increase until after a bounce has cleared. Knowing this now, and looking at Pumbaa's SS, would I have done things differently? Yep. So now I can do right by my little guy, and start low and go slow.

I do have some questions, though...

1) What constitutes a bounce? Is there a certain percentage/point spread to use, or is it just when there is a lower number than previously tested followed by a much higher number? Someone said last night that, looking at Pumbaa's SS, they only saw one huge bounce and a couple of dives. That's not what I see, but then I don't always take into account the +/- 20%, and maybe I need to. Looking back at his SS, I see several instances where there was a very large difference in the numbers, even when taking into consideration the +/- 20%. Hope someone can explain this to me.

2) If the tight regulation is based on 6 cycles, and new-dose-wonkiness can take 24 hours to clear, and a bounce can take 72 hours to clear, I'm translating this to mean that on 4/17 I should not have upped his dose to 1.25U, is that correct? I'm considering the 288 to 416 on 4/16 as being a bounce, since they aren't within the +/- 20% range.

Oh, and Julie...thank you. I've been reading Tilly's Diabetes pages. Good stuff!

Suze
 
Re: 4/25 Pumbaa AMPS/471 +3/334 +5/306 +6/368

The 368 at +6 could be the Trader Joe's Tuna for Cats that Pumbaa ate at 11:30. I regret having given him that as I wasn't going to introduce any new foods into their diets right now. It seems to be okay from a carbs level, but the very last ingredient on the can is rice flour...as a carrier. I've emailed TJ's asking for the carb content.

I've been re-reading all of the tight regulation information. I think .50U was too low to drop Pumbaa back to, based on his weight, so tonight I will put him at the 1.00U starting dose.

Still trying to get a urine sample, but Pumbaa isn't being cooperative about peeing when I put him in the litter box.
 
There are no "rules" or mathematical formulas to determine what constitutes a bounce. It would be so much easier if there were!! Part of the difficulty is that a bounce can occur when a cat drops in to low numbers or if there's a fast drop -- for that particular cat. Also, keep in mind that low numbers can be a drop below 50 OR it can be a drop from the 400s to the 200s. Each cat may respond differently to those numbers and the same cat can respond differently on different days. You need to get a feel for your cat. And, just to complicate the picture even further, sometimes what you could be seeing is a high before a break in the numbers.
 
you're welcome for the article - we're all just interested in trying to help the cat. i wouldn't call anything you've done up til now a mistake, but rather learning opportunities. my philosophy is to learn and move on. just press on.

keep in mind that as you increase the dose, you may see some wonky numbers.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
There are no "rules" or mathematical formulas to determine what constitutes a bounce. It would be so much easier if there were!!
Click to expand...

It sure would be easier!!!!!!!!


Part of the difficulty is that a bounce can occur when a cat drops in to low numbers or if there's a fast drop -- for that particular cat. Also, keep in mind that low numbers can be a drop below 50 OR it can be a drop from the 400s to the 200s. Each cat may respond differently to those numbers and the same cat can respond differently on different days. You need to get a feel for your cat. And, just to complicate the picture even further, sometimes what you could be seeing is a high before a break in the numbers.
Click to expand...

Hey, Sienne, thanks...just what I need is more complication. *LOL* Just kidding...thank you for the explanation. I wish that "bounce" was in the jargon/definitions.
 
julie & punkin said:
you're welcome for the article - we're all just interested in trying to help the cat. i wouldn't call anything you've done up til now a mistake, but rather learning opportunities. my philosophy is to learn and move on. just press on.

keep in mind that as you increase the dose, you may see some wonky numbers.
Click to expand...

Julie, I know that everyone just wants to help the cats...and I truly appreciate that!

Yes, I've made some "learning opportunities". And now, hopefully, moving forward, I can do a better job for my little guy.

And yes, now that I know that some cats, especially mine, tend to provide some wonky numbers after an increase, I'm more prepared for them.
 
Julie, I already had that thread bookmarked, but thank you for pointing me at it again!

Again, the reason I was asking today is that someone said last night that they only saw one large bounce in Pumbaa's SS, and it made me question my definition of a "bounce".

Good news...Pumbaa just tested negative for ketones! Yeehaw!
 
Size

I mentioned the bounce. I see fairly substantial bounces On the evening of 4/12 and evening of 4/18.

He got down into blue on the evening of 4/12. You correctly held the dose six cycles...in fact, I would have raised him the morning of 4/16. We don't omit NDW cycles when counting cycles to increase again. I also don't think the 288 to 400 on 4/16 was a bounce. That just looks like a normal cycle to me where the nadir was 288.

I guess I don't understand why you raised the dose tonight after only two cycles? If you are following the TR protocol or the start low go slow, doing that would not have been either one.
 
Marjorie and Gracie said:
Size

I mentioned the bounce. I see fairly substantial bounces On the evening of 4/12 and evening of 4/18.

He got down into blue on the evening of 4/12. You correctly held the dose six cycles...in fact, I would have raised him the morning of 4/16. We don't omit NDW cycles when counting cycles to increase again. I also don't think the 288 to 400 on 4/16 was a bounce. That just looks like a normal cycle to me where the nadir was 288.
Click to expand...

Marjorie...I didn't remember who had commented about the bounces, and it really didn't matter, I just wanted some clarification as to what constituted a "bounce". But thank you for responding because now I can ask you more questions and maybe finally understand this! *LOL*

Why would the 288 to 416 on 4/16 not be considered a bounce? Especially when 3 hours later he dropped down to 337? Does this have something to do with the +/- 20%? The 416 to 337 is within the +/- 20% range, but the 288 to 416 isn't. I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just really don't get this. And, since I am watching for when Pumbaa's liver is dumping sugar into his system, so that I don't make changes immediately after this has occurred, this is something I need to understand.


I guess I don't understand why you raised the dose tonight after only two cycles? If you are following the TR protocol or the start low go slow, doing that would not have been either one.
Click to expand...

I raised him to .75U last night because someone had explained how the shed he has built up would affect the numbers over the next 3 days and I didn't want the shed to empty totally. I felt better only dropping his dose by half (from 1.5 to .75) than from 1.5 to .50, if that makes any sense. I will stay with the .75 for at least 3 days and see how he is reacting to it. So far I am encouraged by the steadily declining numbers, although I am confused by when the lower numbers are occurring. I want to give Pumbaa a break today and not test him so many dang times, but from yesterday's numbers, it seems like I should still test him at least at +3, +6 and +9 to see what his little body is doing.

Suze
 
Marjorie and Gracie said:
We don't omit NDW cycles when counting cycles to increase again.
Click to expand...

Marjorie: Two more questions...

1) Why aren't the NDW cycles ommited when you can't get any true data from them?

2) The tight regulation websites I've read state 3-5 days (6-10 cycles) before changing a dose, but here, everyone sticks to the 3 days. Is there a reason behind that?
 
Negative ketones is always a great way to start the day!

You are wise to stick with the lower dose and let the shed settle; the .75u will hopefully give you level numbers, no serious ups/downs/bouncing. Then once you see the numbers level, you can start to consider which way to go in the dosing.... make your changes small, and don't forget that the quick changes disrupt the shed, so .5u then .75u, then .5u, would cause some 'huh?' on Pumbaa's part.

Think on the dose changes based on the general guidelines, either .25u increase or .5u increase, and be sure to hold the new dose for a couple days, unless you get immediate extreme reaction... say you increase by .5u and get a huge drop... you could think about dropping back .25u and moving up slower.
Pumbaa's the boss and if a cat says too fast, owner needs to slow down!

The numbers for the 25th look nicely level, so start to watch for Pumbaa acting better with the level numbers because the extremes surely make him feel like crap.
 
Gayle, thank you! Yes, Pumbaa IS acting better with more level numbers. I felt like his poor body was adrift in the ocean in a rocky cove and was just being battered right and left with all of those highs and lows. That's why my gut said to drop his dose and start over.

Because of how Pumbaa was reacting to even the .25U increases, would it be prudent to increase even less than the .25U to keep the levels steadier? Like a .25 minus X-number-of-drops increase?

As they say, every cat is different, and at least now I have some history about how he reacts, which will allow me to make better judgments in the future.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top