4/2 Eddie AMPS 192, +6/255, PMPS 246, +4/250

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Jen&Eddie

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Good morning! Chilly below freezing here today, but the sun is shining!

AMPS = 192 (+14)(1.8u)
+2 = 284
+6 = 255
+9.5 = 296
PMPS = 246 (+10.5)(2u)
+2 = 333
+4 = 250

Eddie had one of his famous long slow cycles last night. Looks like those bouncy hormones finally cleared out!

So to recap briefly, Eddie's nadir (maybe?) happened at +9 (2:00 AM @-) ), when he was at 69. It's possible he went lower, but mama bean went to bed. I figured DH would be up in three hours to check on him at 5:00 AM at +12. He did come to bed and woke me up about a half hour later, and then another half hour later, demanding pets, and being nippy. I briefly considered testing him again, but didn't. In hindsight, I wonder if I may have caught him dipping below 50, and earning a reduction for this scale. I also vaguely remember (or did I dream it?) that I heard someone puking, and it may have been Eddie.

Then, DH overslept. Which he never does. I can't believe the cats weren't all jumping on the bed to wake us up for breakfast! Eddie's AMPS test this morning didn't happen until +14, so he got a good surf in there between +9 and +14. Shot 1.8u at 192. Breakfast wasn't split this AM since our schedule was screwed up. At +2 he's up to 284, so maybe a little bounce in there, or maybe a big food spike. Either way, he's not dropping. Phew!

Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
There's the Eddie we expect to see. So how can we flatten out this pattern of a low cycle, a higher flat (or two) and a low again?

I'm hoping that as he "earns" reductions, his cycles will be less dramatic?

I have a new "theory" on Eddie's long duration cycles. :-D After watching his patterns the last couple days, I think sometimes, the long duration cycles that Eddie has is when he's clearing a bounce. If he clears out the "insulin resistant" hormones later in the cycle, onset is later, and nadir is later. If the zinc crystals have been doing what they are supposed to do, and gradually dissolving to release insulin, there's active, but unused circulating insulin that has not yet been metabolized. If the hormones that block the insulin receptors start to wear out, it allows all that active insulin that's been building up to go to work, which might cause a big drop later in the cycle, or cause the cycle to be extended. Or, maybe duration and absorption are completely random. :-D

So, I'm wondering if I should assume there was a dip below 50 in last night's cycle to "earn" Eddie a reduction on pre-shots in this range? Or, do I see what happens with the same dose on another cycle, and hope to catch the dip?
 
Re: 4/2 Eddie AMPS 192

So what did you decide?

When you get done theorizing on Eddie, Lucian's next. ;-)
 
Re: 4/2 Eddie AMPS 192

I'm leaning towards holding because who needs sleep? @-) Unless he does something crazy in the next cycle or two. It's getting a little hairy trying to tweak pieces of the scale, and I may have to try bumping the whole scale down again. You know me :smile: ...I tend to probably be a little more aggressive and ask Eddie to "prove" that he's ready to go down.

I'm in the process of reading a medical journal article that talks about insulin-induced insulin resistance that seems to have been induced in mice. Sort of another take on the "boucing/Somogyi/rebound" ideas. Thus far the interesting thing is that the mice didn't show any periods of hypoglycemia precipitating the hyperglycemia....I'll post and summarize later after studying some more. :smile:
 
Re: 4/2 Eddie AMPS 192, +5/255

+6 = 255

Yicko. Not unexpected though. Could be that he was rising too fast for the 1.8u this AM to get a foothold, or maybe bouncing.

I'm totally torn about whether to keep on doing what we're doing and reducing slowly as Eddie dips, or to scale back a bit and see if he bounces less. I'm awful at making decisions. ohmygod_smile Anyone got any input? :smile:
 
Re: 4/2 Eddie AMPS 192, +6/255

Jen, are you a Libra? I've seen you say more than once, that you have trouble making decisions. Libra's are known for not being able to decide. Just curious. :-D
 
Re: 4/2 Eddie AMPS 192, +6/255

nckitties3 said:
Jen, are you a Libra? I've seen you say more than once, that you have trouble making decisions. Libra's are known for not being able to decide. Just curious. :-D

At first I thought you were asking if i was a liberal rather than Libra. Haha! Nope. Scorpio gal here. ;-) I have a tendency to over-analyze every angle, and then can't see clearly what the best option is, or make a decision, and then subsequently second guess it after I do make a decision. ohmygod_smile
 
Re: 4/2 Eddie AMPS 192, +6/255

Agree: Yuck. I am always wondering what Eddie is doing. The data is so hard to interpret because he seems to bounce higher and flatter and it lasts, sometimes, more than a cycle. I think I'd vote for lowering the scale and seeing if he stops, at least some bouncing. It may not give you low greens midcycle, but maybe he needs blues first and then gradually greens to decrease the bouncing?

The nice thing is that you can try it a few cycles and if it doesn't help, we regroup.
 
Re: 4/2 Eddie AMPS 192, +6/255

I am game for trying this. Before our weekend get away, once we started dropping down the whole scale, Eddie actually was going down faster.

Do you think starting with a 0.2u reduction to the scale across the board? I've been toying with even maybe picking a single dose and reworking the scale from there. Thoughts on that?

Thanks for your input as always! :-D
 
Re: 4/2 Eddie AMPS 192, +6/255

+9.5 = 296 :-Q

Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I like a .2 reduction overall.

Going to give this a shot for a few cycles I think. His flat cycles DO seem to be going up. I think I'm going to post in the Think Tank a little later, but the article I was reading was discussing the relationship between hyperinsulinemia (too much circulating insulin) and insulin resistance. The gist is that the "secretive" hormone that was thought to be responsible for insulin resistance due to too much insulin (i.e. Somogyi) is ..... wait for it....the insulin itself. Basically too much circulating insulin, either endogenous or exogenous, desensitizes the receptor cells resulting in insulin resistance. Because the receptor cells are desensitized, they aren't responding to the insulin as efficiently when insulin is secreted in response to glucose...so glucose stays high.
 
Re: 4/2 Eddie AMPS 192, +6/255

This general idea could fit Eddie. His long cycles and then flat bounces do suggest that there is overlap of some sort. I know it's not supposed to happen with ProZinc, but I have always thought that, when dealing with a hormone, there are few predictable patterns. Just like women and menopause, when the hormones act completely different in different women.

It does seem to contradict the idea that insulin resistance is caused by too little insulin (The insulin resistance thread Carl bumps up). But couldn't it be different for different cats?

I'll watch for the Think Tank thread. Hope you get some interesting responses.
 
Re: 4/2 Eddie AMPS 192, +6/255, +10.5/246

+10.5 = 246

Now this is kind of interesting. It's within meter variance of the +9.5 reading of 296, but just barely. Going to go with 2.0u and shoot a little early tonight.

I'm not sure yet how the concept of insulin-induced insulin resistance fits with the concept of resistance due to glucose toxicity. I'll have to give that some thought. I do think, though, that the insulin-induced insulin resistance could be an actual scientific explanation for the phenomenon we call bouncing or rebound. Although, that leaves the question of how to incorporate that into what we do with our kitties.
 
Re: 4/2 Eddie AMPS 192, +6/255, PMPS 246

I don't think any 2 cats are the same. The problem is trying to figure out yours. What works for one is a disaster for another. Personally, I'm at a total loss.

Will be watching to see what Eddie does for you. Good luck girlie! :YMHUG:
 
Thanks hon! I sure have my fingers crossed that going down will slow some of the crazy low cycles, and maybe reduce the number of the flat cycles. If it doesn't work, I have no trouble going back up! :-D For me, going down makes me far more nervous than going up. nailbite_smile

At +2, Eddie was up to 333 (gross!), but at +4, he's coming down and is at 250.

Except for those maddening spikes and some short cycles, Lucian's numbers really look great to my eye. :-D I know you feel like you're at a loss Deb, but clearly you are doing something right!

Here's Eddie sleeping in his re-purposed doll bed that grandmabean brought for him. :-D
 

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