4/19 Jupiter PMPS/154

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Jamie & Jupiter

Jamie & Jupiter

Member Since 2013
link to yesterdays condo: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=93559

What lovely blue numbers last night - I was worried that they kept decreasing so I checked on him each hour last night. Let him free feed with his normal food.

Not sure what time to test next

Todays Numbers:
AMPS - 170
+1 - 209
+2.5 - 186
+5 - 161
+7 - 130
+9 - 151
+11 - 193
PMPS - 154
+1.5 - 236
+4 - 391
+7 - 362


Recap of yesterdays numbers:
AMPS - 322
+3 - 303
+5 - 297
PMPS - 275
+2 - 295
+4 - 267
+5.75 - 187
+7 - 151
+8 - 128
+9 - 116
+10 - 150
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170

I am wondering how often I should be testing? I really feel like sometimes I might be testing too much.. Can anyone help me figure out when is the best time to test and how often I should be testing depending on numbers?
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 question

With regards to testing, naturally you'd want to test before you shoot both AMPS and PMPS. For the mid cycle tests, you need to do at least 1 each mid cycle. If you only do 1 for each cycle, I would do it at a different time each day so that you can get an idea over the days of how well he's doing. You can also test every 3 hours (AMPS, +3, +6, +9, PMPS, etc.), if you want. That is a curve. If you're new here (and welcome, btw! :-D) I would suggest getting about 2 or more tests each mid cycle so that the experts can see how Jupiter is doing.

I know what you're saying with regards to you feeling like you're overtesting. Honestly, overtesting isn't a bad thing. You're simply showing how Jupiter is doing, and he's also telling you a story with regards to his #s. Sometimes, it's best to slightly overtest in case there is something going on, like him dropping too quickly for instance.
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 question

Jupiter seems to be harder to predict... I stare at his ss and he tends to do his lower numbers later in the cycle but that doesn't mean he won't change the dance any time he feels like it.

I would probably still get a +2 or 2.5 to see if he's going up or down....and if he's going up... give him a few hours... just my opinion.
I know how you feel when you test and get a yellow number and you are trying to be there to catch the low blues and greens....
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 question

Yeah, like last night - I wanted to test him before I went to bed even though the +2 and +4 seemed fine. So I tested him to give me some peace of mind - and his number had dropped by 80. (from 267 to 187) At that point I felt really worried cause to me, that seemed like a pretty big drop. Then after that I was testing every hour because it was dropping - and I wanted to make sure it wasnt dropping too quickly. Did I test toooo much last night? And on a night like last night how often 'should' I have been testing? - so I know for the future.

I mean I am kind of happy I tested him before I went to bed - because now I know that he did have some lower numbers during the night and it is good to see those lower numbers. I might not have known this if I wouldnt have tested before going to sleep. Was testing him then really unnecessary though?
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 question

There's never a perfect time to "know" to test. The nadir may typically be at a usual time but the nadir is by no means fixed. It can vary in that the AM cycle may typically nadir at one time whereas the PM nadir may typically be at a different time. Or, the nadir can differ from day to day. (Our kitties like to keep us on our toes!)

I generally recommend that people get a +2 or a +3 test so you have some idea of where the cycle is heading. If either of these numbers is notably lower than your pre-shot test, it's worth getting an additional test sooner rather than later.

A great deal also depends on your cat's pattern. If you'll notice with Gabby, she typically has an early nadir (except when she doesn't). I am usually good to stop testing at +4. There are other cats where I wouldn't recommend that strategy. Fundamentally, it's a process of getting to know Jupiter's patterns and realizing that many of our kitties don't read the rule book let alone follow the rules!

This section of the Shooting & Handling Low Numbers sticky on Becoming Data Ready may be helpful:
BECOMING DATA READY

Let's talk specifically for Lantus and Levemir. This is about fine tuning your curves.
Are you data ready to handle a lower preshot number?

This is where the very early cycle spot checks (those +1's, +2's) and those very late cycle spot checks (the +10's, +11's) come into play. Call them the "neglected" spot checks. Everyone gets those +6 spot checks, but there is a reason to collect data in the very early and very late part of the cycle.

Say you get a preshot of 150. Well if you've collected the data on the average time it takes the insulin to start having any effect for your cat and what happens after +12, then you might see that shooting a 150 is actually very safe in your cat. Kitty will be in the 200's before the insulin starts working. You are then using the lag time (aka overlap and carryover) between shooting and effect time to your advantage.

So why the +10's and +11's? Well say you are on day 5 of a dose increase change and your storage shed is now not only full, it is overflowing... and your +10 or +11 was way higher than your preshot. Good way to stay out of trouble cause now you know you would have shot a still dropping number, not a good idea. so what is the plan then?.... keep testing, and not 2 hours later, every 20-30 minutes would be better, so you can catch the minute it turns and do not loose all your overlap. If you miss the rise and cat is way up there BG wise before you shoot, remember the number is just going to continue to rise in those hours before the insulin has a chance to kick in, and you have a roller coaster curve going rather than the flat curve that is ideal.

Also some Lantus and Levemir users notice a dip at the end of the cycle, meaning that their preshot is always a bit lower than their +10 or +11. It is important to know if your cat is one of those because if you are not raising your dose because your PS doesn't seem to call for it, yet your nadir is not so hot... this could be the reason why.

If you want to choose less important times to test, really the +8's and +9's and the +4's and +5's are the numbers that yield the least amount of important data once you have well established the nadir in your cat. Yes, get them here or there on spot checks, but do not forget to get the "neglected" spot checks... the very early and very late parts of cycle. They are more useful than most realize.

Know thy cat. Be data ready to handle the situation.

~ written by jojo and bunny(GA) and Y
Click to expand...
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 question

Some cats will drop much more than 80. Blackie's done that. She'd give me a rather high #, and about 2-3 hours later, will have dropped over 150 (and more) points. All that in a space of 3 hours. Then, she'd begin to rise.

I, too, noticed Jupiter's nadir is rather late. That may be now, but in the near future, he could move that back to say +8 or even +6, or even a +5, etc. You get the picture. It's not uncommon to have a cat's nadir not stay in place throughout the treatment. Just as long as you test to show where he's at so that the experts can advise you on what to do if they see something that we unexperts don't. And they more often than not will see something. :-D
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 question

I would say you are stuck in the hindsite quandary.
hindsite being 20/20. :lol:

You are feeling like you are testing too much because Jupiter didn't drop low...
but at the time, you were worried because you recently had that lower run, just didn't get a reduction number....
so as you are hoping for that reduction number , you need the reassurance.
And if he had dropped low, you'd be feeling like you didn't test enough...
It takes a while to know thy cat.
And Jupiter does seem to have his own drummer.

You aren't hurting him... he's getting treats...
And data just helps you learn his ways.
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 question

Yeah his ears look sore though - and I dont always put neosporin on them - he really seems to hate the neosporin on them.

Looking at his SS though - I am kind of confused what his Nadir is though. One time his lowest point seems at +5, another time at +7, another at +8, another at +9, possibly even earlier in the cycle before the dose increases. Are these times so different and random because of the bounces possibly? And these blue numbers recently seem to come at all different times during the cycle... Im just really confused.
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 question

Rhiannon is right. You're learning thy cat is so true. It'll take time to learn Jupiter's pattern, and over time you will.

As I've stated in my PM to you, I, too, was once a testaholic. In fact, I'm catching myself testing Blackie a bit more often than normal. However, that's more to do with my own curiosity with her #s than anything. Her nadirs are opposite from Jupiter's in that hers are +3. They used to be between about +4 - +6, but not anymore. His may change too in the future, so you're testing him like you are is good knowledge. The more knowledgeable you are, the better equipped you'll be to handle any situation, with the guidance of the experts in the beginning, of course. Over time, you'll learn to do things yourself, and you may fall back on asking the experts for help, too. We all do that.
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 question

Yesterday I tested him 12 times! There are other days I have tested 15 times! I feel like thats too much but I worry when I dont test - that maybe I should be testing. I normally dont test that many times in a day unless his numbers seem to be decreasing or if I just really feel worried or the need to test..

With Jupiters numbers all over the place.. I am not seeing much of a pattern yet.. I am worried what if I dont test and then his numbers drop and if I am asleep I wont know - and if I set an alarm - I may not wake up to test once in middle of night..

I dont quite understand how much of a drop is a "too big of a drop" that I would need to stay up testing..

Im just trying to understand everything because I want to be doing the right thing for Jupiter - I am trying, but often I feel confused and not sure what to do. (I am also on pain medicine quite frequently and this makes it harder for me - get confused even more)
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 question

Maybe if you try putting the neosporin on really lightly.... but you don't have to do it every time.
Shadow didn't like it much either and I don't even put it on at all any more except maybe when she gets a little scab. But I now use it very sparingly because she doesn't like
her ears to be oily.
I found it to be more helpful at helping the blood make a nice little bead than anything. ( black ears make it hard to see a tiny drop)
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 question

I just put a tiny tiny bit of neosporin on one ear at a time - and use the other to test while thats drying up... i use very very little but spread it around the edge of the ear over all the places that I have tested
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 +2.5/186 question

Once again I am confused by his numbers.. I was kind of thinking they would go up now - because usually after a period of lower numbers his BG has been going up again


edit: or maybe the 209 @ +1 was just a food spike from him eating at AMPS?
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 +2.5/186 question

Actually, that blue # is a good thing. It means that the insulin is working after 2 hours, which it typically does. Lantus has a 2 hour onset after being injected. If you test 1 hour after you feed, sometimes you may see a rise in #s which is associated with the food (aka a food spike). When you test again @ +2, the # begins to drop, which is associated with the onset of the insulin. I would suggest continuing to test him to make sure that he's not dropping too fast. I can be here for a bit longer, if you wish. If you have some LC and MC food on hand, you can always mix a bit of it up and give it to him when the need arises. The mixing of the 2 carb foods helps to bring him back up nicely if he drops too quickly.

With regards to the Neosporin, the one with Pain Relief is better as it'll help to deaden the sting from the poke on the ears.
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 +2.5/186 question

Jamie

Well Jupiter surprised me with those numbers last night but you know what? He would have been fine if you hadn't done one single test after +2. Yes, you would have awakened to a blue number and not known if he was dropping or not.

It's difficult to tell someone how often to test. Sienne and I both test alot but We know our cats' patterns and when they are most likely to drop. And as others have said, you will have to get a feel for Jupiters.

I am with Sienne on the +2. I also really like those +10 and +11 tests because they let you know if he's dropping, surfing, or getting a double dip as he goes into his PS.

On days when his +2 is higher than his PS, I'd take a break, get a midcycle test and then a +10 or +11. If his +2 is the same or lower than PS, I'd get a +4 and then go from there based on how fast he is coming down.

I've been trying to space out testing more but on days when Gracie is running low, I will get 12-15 tests. When she isn't, I really try to back off the testing for her and for us and get out and do something.
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 +2.5/186 question

Marje and Gracie said:
I am with Sienne on the +2. I also really like those +10 and +11 tests because they let you know if he's dropping, surfing, or getting a double dip as he goes into his PS.

On days when his +2 is higher than his PS, I'd take a break, get a midcycle test and then a +10 or +11. If his +2 is the same or lower than PS, I'd get a +4 and then go from there based on how fast he is coming down.

I've been trying to space out testing more but on days when Gracie is running low, I will get 12-15 tests. When she isn't, I really try to back off the testing for her and for us and get out and do something.
Click to expand...

This was my approach too. If Leo was going to dip hard, he'd generally let me know by +1.5 or +2, so I get an early test when his PS is lower or decreasing. And I knew this because I generally always got a +10 or +11. Those late values really gave me a good idea where he might be going after his shot. Leo got tested about 8-10 times a day on average, and higher when he was low.

And Leo would hear the microwave (I heated a sock to warm his ear) and the beep of his meter, I'd say, "Leo want a snack?" and he'd come right over for the treat (and test).

Good luck!
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 +2.5/186 +5/161 question

I'd probably get a +9. If he's up, I'd let him go until PMPS. If he's still coming down but is blue, I'd get a +11; if he's coming down and is green, I'd get a +10.
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 +2.5/186 +5/161 question

Okay.. I also think I am a bit more worried as I am transitioning him off the shreds and onto the pate. He has eaten almost all pate today.... he normally has some shreds mixed in.. so with the lower carb food.. I am a little bit more worried
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 +2.5/186 +5/161 question

couldnt wait that long since I was getting ready to leave for a few and felt nervous about leaving without testing first. +7 was taken about 12 mins early and his BG was 130. wow cant believe how long hes been in blue numbers!! YAY
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 +2.5/186 +5/161 question

wow!! would ya look at this beautiful cycle starting from last night. looks as though he is starting to get a little better at accepting lower numbers. he may still bounce but looking a lot better.
as far as testing. I say, do what you feel comfy with. eventually you and jupe will settle down. I attribute it to it6 is better to be high for a day than low for a minute to better to test too much than too little or not at all
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 +2.5/186 +5/161 +7/130 +9/1

WOW I am so happy to see all of these blue numbers today!! This is the longest streak of blues we have seen so far for Jupiter!!

Now if he would stop being a picky eater! Hes only wanting to eat seafood again today
 
Re: 4/19 Jupiter AMPS/170 +1/209 +2.5/186 +5/161 +7/130 +9/1

Very very nice. Beautiful cycle. I'd give him until +11 ONLY because it would be nice to see if he gets a second dip or not.

One important thing is.....I never ever ever ever leave the house without getting a test first. I try to time my testing for when I need to leave so I'm not testing and then testing again in 20 mins when I have to leave. KWIM? And I always get a test as soon as I walk back in unless it's just a quick trip to the store and I'm back fast.
 
So his BG went down between +11 and PMPS which kind of confuses me?

PMPS - 154

I still shot his full normal dose - was going to ask first - but then forgot and shot it anyways =/

I hope this was okay?
 
:RAHCAT dancing_cat :RAHCAT LOOK AT ALL THOSE BLUES!!! :RAHCAT dancing_cat :RAHCAT ​

You can't see me right now, but I'm doing this in my living room...

It looks like this is your 2nd lowest preshot you've had and you shot the 127... If I were to make a guess, I'm wondering if this cycle may be similar to the cycle on 4/12. If I were you, I'd get a +1 or +2 at least. Your PMPS was lower than your AMPS +11. I don't know which way he's going since he's been all over those blues today. When was the last time he ate?

What a beautiful blue surf today! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
 

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Jamie

I want to explain why his number came back down at PMPS.

Lantus and levemir a known for their "second dips" at the end of the cycle. So often what happens is the kitty nadirs, comes back up towards the end of the cycle, and at the end comes back down a bit but usually not as low as the nadir. It's safe to shoot this second dip even though it seems he is dropping again because it is usually followed by a rise.

This is different from a dropping number. With a dropping number, the BG just continues to come down from one preshot to the next so the lower number is at PS. We try to teach how to safely shoot dropping numbers because it allows you to take advantage of overlap of two cycles. Sometimes with dropping numbers, the number just keeps dropping after the preshot because the onset of lantus is at +2....that's where you see the overlap.

It's possible Jupiter went up because of a food spike or he's going to bounce a bit. I think if you get a +4 and he's higher, you should go to bed and sleep. :-D
 
Thanks for explaining that Marje - I had not heard about the second dip before and what you said makes a lot of sense. Thank goodness you're here to tell us these things. :-D
 
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