4/17/22 *Time sensitive dosing advice

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MsF & Manu

MsF & Manu

Member Since 2022
Hello! Manu's numbers have been bouncing all over the place since I did his first curve this past Wednesday. It's 7:30 am (PST) right now. He's having breakfast and I'm due to give him his morning shot by 8:00 am. If anyone sees this in time, I'd love some advice. The spreadsheet shows the doing changes I made following the "bounce". But now he's back up to 403 this morning! I only tested once during the day yesterday, but it was at the hour in which it was the lowest the previous 2 days. I'm feeling like the new 1.5 is too low. I was thinking I may go up to 1.75 today (as best I can with my single-unit U-40 syringes). What do you think? Should I hold him at 1.5 for a few more days? Keep in mind he was on 3 units before Wednesday's bounce and dangerous lows! Thanks!
 
With the big drops in numbers you're seeing, a bounce is not unexpected. What I would suggest, though, is if you see a drop like you did today (403 to 132), I would get more tests. You have no way to know if Manu's numbers kept dropping. Just because the nadir (low point in the cycle) was at +4 yesterday, doesn't mean it will be there today. Cats enjoy being unpredictable!

If it were me, I would hold the dose.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
With the big drops in numbers you're seeing, a bounce is not unexpected. What I would suggest, though, is if you see a drop like you did today (403 to 132), I would get more tests. You have no way to know if Manu's numbers kept dropping. Just because the nadir (low point in the cycle) was at +4 yesterday, doesn't mean it will be there today. Cats enjoy being unpredictable!

If it were me, I would hold the dose.
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Thank you for your comment. I was going to be out for part of the day today, so I decided to be cautious and leave it at 1.5 units. I leave wet food in an automatic feeder for 2 small snacks overnight, and he did have some of the leftover wet food just before I got up to test him, so I'm thinking that may have partially accounted for the high number this morning too. What a roller coaster!
 
Vicpug said:
How much does Manu weigh ?
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Manu's a pretty big guy. Before he was diagnosed, he was 15.8 lbs. He lost 2 lbs. in 6 weeks, and when last at the vet in mid-March he was 13.25 lbs. I know the vet used his weight for the original dose of 2 units, twice/day of Vetsulin (2 weeks later increased to 3 units, twice/day). This is a big drop and I don't know how the vet is going to feel about it. But he was out of town this week when I did the BG curve at home, when Manu's BG dropped dangerously low. I'll be testing him again shortly before dinner.
 
He just tested at 423 again! I was only able to test once during mid-day; it was 132. I have no idea what to do about his dose. I think I will increase to 1.75 (which is hard to do with my syringes). Any thoughts?
 
That's the problem with Vetsulin....it hits hard and fast and then wears off too fast.

I wouldn't have increased his dose. The high number tonight was probably due to a bounce. Bounces happen when 1. they drop too low, 2. they drop too fast, 3. they drop into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combination of all 3).

In your case, #2 and #3 are definite possibilities.

You might try "front loading" his carbs. At the early part of the cycle, feed him more often...Like at PS, +1, +2, +3 and see if that slows down those big drops.

Since 1.5 did get him down to 132 (and we don't know how much lower he might have gone) I'd go back to the 1.5 unit dose.
 
Hi there - as I mentioned in your post in the Vetsulin forum, need to hold this dose for a a week total before considering any increases. His nadirs are good right now, give him some more time to settle into the dose. I know the high numbers are frustrating to see, but nadir is what determines the dose. The rest takes time, or perhaps different insulin.

And of course if he goes below 90 at any point, you need to reduce by 0.25U. If you think he may have gone below 90 let me know and I'll take a look and see what to do
 
FrostD said:
Hi there - as I mentioned in your post in the Vetsulin forum, need to hold this dose for a a week total before considering any increases. His nadirs are good right now, give him some more time to settle into the dose. I know the high numbers are frustrating to see, but nadir is what determines the dose. The rest takes time, or perhaps different insulin.

And of course if he goes below 90 at any point, you need to reduce by 0.25U. If you think he may have gone below 90 let me know and I'll take a look and see what to do
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Thank you. I think the dose I was able to measure was probably closer to 1.6. I'll go back down in the morning. I'm not sure what the vet is going to say. After his first BG Curve at the vet's office, he wanted to increase for 2 units to 4 units! So clearly, we are not on the same page. I pushed for 3.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
What kind of automatic feeder do you have?
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I've been using this one. But the clock is not precise. And I'm not exactly sure what time it opens.
Amazon.com : Cat Mate C200 2 Meal Automatic Pet Feeder for Cats and Small Dogs with Ice Pack : Pet Supplies

I just bought another one with a digital clock; maybe I'll try that one tonight. I'll set it for 2 and 4 hours after the shot. I also bought a tiny refrigerator for my bedroom, so I could manually feed him from bed without getting up to go to the kitchen.
Amazon.com: AstroAI Mini Fridge, 4 Liter/6 Can AC/DC Portable Thermoelectric Cooler and Warmer Refrigerators for Skincare, Beverage, Food, Cosmetics, Home, Office and Car, ETL Listed (Blue) : Home & Kitchen
I'm trying everything I can! But I feel like I'm failing. :(
 
MsF & Manu said:
I just bought another one with a digital clock;
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The Cat Mate 500 is a 5 section auto-feeder (it comes with an ice pack too). You can program it to open 4 times a cycle and then have it programmed to advance to an empty section 2 hours before shot time so you know he hasn't eaten for those 2 hours.
 
Vicpug said:
What are you feeding Manu? Losing 2lbs in 6 weeks is very impressive. Maybe too quick.
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He didn't lose weight the good way. :( He lost weight because of the diabetes itself. I found out in the appointment when he was diagnosed. :( I had tried to put him on a diet previously without much success.

Now I feed him mostly Wellness, Weruva & Purina DM wet food (those are the ones he has decided he likes after I've tried many, many others). I also give him a small amount of Young Again kibble.
 
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