4/14 Raven AMPS 373 +322 +5 332

[SophieFRA]

Hi all, sorry again for my pause in posts. It's been a busy week and I've been too exhausted to post when I get home late and have to take care of fosters etc.

We've had a slight set-back on numbers, caused by me running out of Raven's frozen raw rabbit food yesterday (I realized that I was out unexpectedly last weekend and ended up ordering more -- but run out while waiting for the replacement food). I ended up feeding him RAWZ rabbit wet food and freeze dried food which he just wasn't as keen on yesterday. So he ate less and as a result his PMPS numbers yesterday evening were too low for me to give him a regular shot (129 and 141 20 mins later). I had to run out for planned evening activities, so I ended up giving him a little less than half a does (1.5u).

So today, as expected we're seeing numbers spiked back into the 300s after 200s over the last few days (though I started feeding him his regular frozen rabbit since last night). If this hadn't happened, my plan would have been to do a dose increase today, but given this irregularity, I decided against it (also because I haven't been able to get any mid-cycle measures over the past days).

Do you have a recommendation when to plan for a dose increase with this in mind? I'm assuming today will remain an off day with non-representative numbers. So would tomorrow be too soon?

@Bandit's Mom @Wendy&Neko @Margaret (and Pearl)

Thanks so much!
Sophie

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...293-pmps-290-2-233-3-230.276346/#post-3063259

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Did you dose yesterday morning? The units cell is empty, though I'm assuming 3.25. Higher numbers today are the result of a reduced dose last night and don't factor into anything. Neither the signature nor spreadsheet lists the dosing method you want to follow (adding TR to siggy would be helpful to us) and I'm assuming it's TR? If TR, that blue PMPS you saw yesterday (yeah! ) means you hold the dose a little longer. From the Dosing Methods Sticky Note:

Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit

You were at 3.25 units for 7 cycles, which is within the time frame for holding a dose. I think you'd still be fine for an increase, if my assumptions are correct on dosing method and yesterday's dose.

 

[SophieFRA]

Did you dose yesterday morning? The units cell is empty, though I'm assuming 3.25. Higher numbers today are the result of a reduced dose last night and don't factor into anything. Neither the signature nor spreadsheet lists the dosing method you want to follow (adding TR to siggy would be helpful to us) and I'm assuming it's TR? If TR, that blue PMPS you saw yesterday (yeah! ) means you hold the dose a little longer. From the Dosing Methods Sticky Note: You were at 3.25 units for 7 cycles, which is within the time frame for holding a dose. I think you'd still be fine for an increase, if my assumptions are correct on dosing method and yesterday's dose.

Thanks so much for your comment. Sorry about that. Updated the missing cell in the spreadsheet. Yes I dosed normally yesterday morning (3.25u) after 333 AMPS. So it was just yesterday's PM shot that was a reduced dose.

Thanks so much for pointing out the rules applying to TR. I still haven't fully internalized how to handle TR and increases. I am attempting TR but remaining flexible about it due to my work schedule, which sometimes doesn't allow for increases for 5+ days. But I am trying for TR.

I am also wondering if I need to reduce Raven's food at some point and, if I do, I obviously need to be careful with dosing since eating a little less seems to make a huge difference in his numbers. He eats a lot (about 3 oz of raw rabbit for breakfast and dinner and then about 2 oz every 3 hours in between). This is much more than I would usually feed a cat of his size (about 12 lbs) but given that he's always hungry and the advice to feed a diabetic cat that isn't overweight as much as they want, I've been opting for a generous approach. He is not overweight at this time, just big-boned. But Viva Raw, the food brand I use, recommends 4 oz a day for Raven based on his size. So This is obviously a big difference to 18 oz. This is the first time I'm adding this up and I am a bit shocked myself now.

Do you think I should reduce his portions even though he's still hungry? Thanks for your advice!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Do you have a pet or baby scale at home? Do you have an idea what his ideal weight is? If not, the vet can probably suggest a good number. I used the scale, weighing week or so, to tell me what I should be doing with food portions. Unregulated cats will be more hungry as not enough insulin means the cells aren't getting what they need. However, you can't just feed them whatever they want. That's bad advice that unfortunately seems to be floating around. Being overweight makes regulation harder. See this post: Feed Kitty As Much As They Want?

As a FYI, Neko maintained her weight at about 4 oz of raw a day. With Maine Coon heritage, she was about 14ish lbs. She also had acromegaly, a condition caused by a benign pituitary tumour that sends out excess growth hormone. Think hungry teenage boys when doing a growth spurt. This condition also caused her diabetes. She was VERY hungry, but got better when regulated.

How much less food do you think Raven got yesterday? As for reducing the dose when they eat less, I found was good to do full dose as long as Neko got at least 2/3 of her calories in. And I had time between preshot and onset to get that food in. Even kitties undergoing anesthesia, who are not allowed to eat, vets still suggest half dose. It could be that 3.25 units was finally making a difference. You also shot full dose a couple times in March when he was in the 140's.

 

[SophieFRA]

Do you have a pet or baby scale at home? Do you have an idea what his ideal weight is? If not, the vet can probably suggest a good number. I used the scale, weighing week or so, to tell me what I should be doing with food portions. Unregulated cats will be more hungry as not enough insulin means the cells aren't getting what they need. However, you can't just feed them whatever they want. That's bad advice that unfortunately seems to be floating around. Being overweight makes regulation harder. See this post: Feed Kitty As Much As They Want?

As a FYI, Neko maintained her weight at about 4 oz of raw a day. With Maine Coon heritage, she was about 14ish lbs. She also had acromegaly, a condition caused by a benign pituitary tumour that sends out excess growth hormone. Think hungry teenage boys when doing a growth spurt. This condition also caused her diabetes. She was VERY hungry, but got better when regulated.

How much less food do you think Raven got yesterday? As for reducing the dose when they eat less, I found was good to do full dose as long as Neko got at least 2/3 of her calories in. And I had time between preshot and onset to get that food in. Even kitties undergoing anesthesia, who are not allowed to eat, vets still suggest half dose. It could be that 3.25 units was finally making a difference. You also shot full dose a couple times in March when he was in the 140's.

Thanks so so much for your advice and patience with my ignorance.

I don‘t have a pet scale. I use a kitchen scale for foster kittens but he‘s too big for that. I‘ll try weighing him with me on a human scale later.

Oh my. Yes I should probably start cutting his portions back. He is definitely not underweight anymore. Oz don‘t really mean anything to me (from Germany originally) so I didn‘t quite realize how far I was off from 4. But I was pretty speechless when I measured it out earlier. I realized that I was feeding him a lot but oh boy. No wonder I‘ve been blowing so much money on raw food.

Yesterday, I gave him him about 2-3oz for breakfast and 1oz of food every 3 hours in between. I was using the Vital cat raw frozen dinner entree patties cut in half plus freeze dried for his 4pm meal and just realized they are only 2oz for one full pattie - so that was definitely much less than usual. But probably more appropriate. I didn‘t have time to fully look into this yesterday since I had to get to work and the food shortage caught me off guard.

Yes I‘ve given full dose on 149-50 PS value and then measured hourly. But I couldn‘t do that yesterday since I had to run out the door.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

4oz is approximately 125 gm. When I bought raw meat, that was the size portions I was getting for 1 cat for a day. It's probably easier to go by calories. Neko needed around 200-220 calories per day. Depending on the raw meat type (chicken, turkey, kangaroo, venison), 125 gram could be anything from 180 to 230 calories.

 

[SophieFRA]

4oz is approximately 125 gm. When I bought raw meat, that was the size portions I was getting for 1 cat for a day. It's probably easier to go by calories. Neko needed around 200-220 calories per day. Depending on the raw meat type (chicken, turkey, kangaroo, venison), 125 gram could be anything from 180 to 230 calories.

I feel pretty bad for grossly overfeeding him now. I weighed him earlier holding him on a human scale and he‘s at 14lbs now. He is big boned but he probably shouldn‘t put on more weight than this. I will cut his portions back slowly and may hold the dose at 3.25u to see how the numbers develop with less food. Thanks for your advice.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

As long as you aren't changing the carbs and are reducing food gradually, and barely seeing blues, you should be OK to increase. He needs to get into healthier numbers as soon as possible.