4/13 Pagan AMPS 493, PMPS 198

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Liadh & Pagan

Liadh & Pagan

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Hi everyone,

This is Pagan's first condo! He has been on Lantus insulin for a month and a few days, gradually increasing to 3u BID. He gave me quite the shock last night with a lovely green number of 68, when 24 hours previously he had been at 598. (!) Thanks to the support and advice of everyone here, I delayed his PM shot last night by 2 hours, and reduced it to 1u. Still waiting to hear back from the vet. Here is the link from last night: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11813

I have no idea what to make of his wildly fluctuating numbers, and am anxiously awaiting the vet's opinion. I'm still new at this, and am very nervous adjusting his dosage on my own!

On the plus side, despite having very bad peripheral neuropathy, he was playing with his brother yesterday! This is the first sign of playfulness since his neuropathy made it hard for him to move around.

Thanks. =)
 
Re: 4/13 Pagan AMPS 493

I only have minute here but that 493 is very likely a bounce from the lows yesterday. If the liver thinks the kitty is in imminent danger (a trip to low numbers, fast drop, or a BG it hasn't seen in awhile) it will send out glucose hormones. We affectionately call this liver training school. Others will be along soon. WELCOME TO LANTUS!
 
Re: 4/13 Pagan AMPS 493

Great job of pulling all of this together -- SS is up and running, you linked yesterday's condo (aka thread), and even have Pagan's avatar.

Liadh & Pagan said:
I have no idea what to make of his wildly fluctuating numbers...
Click to expand...
If I had to hazard a guess, what I think is happening is that Pagan is bouncing. If you look at his numbers on 4/11, he was in the 100s at mid-cycle and then bounced up to the 500s by evening shot time. This is rebound. Pagan's body has essentially forgotten what "normal" BG levels are. As a result, his body goes into protection mode when he senses that BG is too low (or what is actually a normal range). When this happens, the liver panics and dumps stored glucose and counter-regulatory hormones into his system and numbers skyrocket. This is a process that many of the kitties here experience. As Pagen reacquaints himself with lower BG levels, the bounces will flatten out. We somewhat affectionately refer to this as "liver training school" (LTS). It can take up to 72 hours for a bounce to clear.
 
Re: 4/13 Pagan AMPS 493

Welcome to Lantus Land, Liadh & Pagan. You certainly had an exciting introduction last night. If you haven't already done so, you should read the protocols in the sticky's at the top of the Lantus board. I printed out the Tilly protocol and keep it by our bg log. We also had an exciting night and high amps this am, so I know what you've been going through. I'm really glad to hear that Pagan was playing again - always a good sign. Keep up the good work!
 
Re: 4/13 Pagan AMPS 493

Welcome to Lantus Land, the BEST place in the world to be if your cat is a diabetic (and on Lantus of course) :lol:
I work in Boston!
 
Re: 4/13 Pagan AMPS 493

Welcome to LL.. a fantastic place for you to be.. make yourself at home :)

Not sure what your Vet might say.. some vets get really mad about home testing, some are open to the idea but need coaxing and some support it from the get go.. you started hometesting a bit before the last vet curve.. have you discussed hometesting with your vet? What impression did you get of their attitude about it?

Some vets have issues with the types of meters we use (it doesn't matter, you'll just have to trust me on this one).. and many don't realise that BGs are rarely accurate at the vet because of stress..
 
Re: 4/13 Pagan AMPS 493

Thanks for all the welcomes! I'm so grateful that this community exists.

My vet is actually very open to the idea of hometesting. She wanted to start me out slow, changing one thing at a time (first insulin shots, then wet food, then hometesting) so I didn't get overwhelmed. She recommended the vet meter but understood that the human one was much cheaper. I was supposed to wait until the second curve to be taught how to use the meter (I got an AccuChek Aviva) but I took the initiative and watched YouTube videos over and over. I brought in about a week's worth of numbers to our 2nd curve at the vet's, and she was delighted! She said the extra numbers were very helpful, and that made all my hard work that much more worth it. She was actually the one who requested the home curve that I did on Sunday, as she was concerned his numbers might be elevated at the vet's due to stress, and wanted to rule out Somogyi Rebound before changing his dose again. My only complaint is that it's very hard to get a hold of her because she is so busy. I'm still waiting to hear back, so it's so great I have all of you in the mean time! My cat and my sanity thank you very much. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 4/13 Pagan AMPS 493

Wow your vet sounds awesome! Now that you have a spreadsheet set up you can send her a link so she can check on Pagan any time :).

Hopefully she agrees with Libbys suggestion to go to 2U (Libby is one smart cookie :) ).. Need Pagan to get settled in to a consistent dose without the crazy swings so Lantus can do it's magic.
 
Re: 4/13 Pagan AMPS 493

Once my cat was diagnosed (november '09) and I found the board I stopped trying to get advice out of my vet. She is nice but never available and I don't think she has as much practice and experience as the lay people here who do this every day, all day. Plus - who can help you at all hours of the night when you may need it - probably not your vet.

Anyhoo, I'm going to call her and let her know that Boomer's been off insulin now for 6 days. Not sure if their practice has ever gotten a cat off insulin before but I'm going to ask.
 
Re: 4/13 Pagan AMPS 493

It's still cool to keep them in the loop though if it's possible.. I still work with Nova's vet (who is wonderful) with her.. we talk every once in a while.. so I can make sure that what I've learned or figured out makes sense.. she checks on Nova's spreadsheet she knows where Nova is at.. and can also use my adventure to help her other clients..
 
PMPS is 198.

The vet left me a message saying to go down to 2u BID (just like Libby said!) and we'll talk more tomorrow. She wants me to not test for a week, though. :!: Ignoring that advice. My guess is she wants Pagan's ear to have time to heal and/or him to have time to relax? But I'm entirely too neurotic and/or controlling to change his dose and then not see how he reacts! It was only because I continued to test after his curve that I caught that 68 dip. I'm not sure what would have happened if I had given him 3u then, but I'm fairly certain it wouldn't have been good.
 
UGH!!!! My Mom's vet told my mom to not test her cat for two weeks on a new dose - just give the Lantus. Her cat Francis hypo'd that night and if Mom hadn't tested him she could have missed it. Testing is crucial, the vets just don't get it!!!
 
So many new faces :-D Welcome to LL! Yes the best place to be if your cat is diabetic and on Lantus (which is the BEST IMHO) :lol:


I had the same scenario with my vet. Recommended I start with 4units and said I didn't need to test. Whew am I glad I didn't listen and tested! Everyone here is fantastic and with so much experience I followed the advice on this board and never went back to that vet. Not that I recommend that......just means that I trust everyone here. We have all been in each others shoes in one way or another.

Hope to see you around alot and asking all kinds of questions.
 
From what people have posted, it seems like many vets think that we are torturing our cats by the amount that we test. I think if we had videos of how our cats hop into their testing spot and wait for us to test or better yet, come and get us and insist that it's test time. (I'm sure that some of that is because there's food or treats involved!) Our kitties purr at testing. I don't think anyone is abusing their cat by testing and we can test a lot! I'm all for your ignoring your vet's advice about not testing. Frankly, I think testing is the best way to keep our cats safe.
 
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