4/13 Boots needs dosing info amps 45 pmps >600
- Thread starter lizwardia
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LynnLee + Mousie
Very Active Member
give them a little bit to see this and to look at your spreadsheet and they'll come up with what to shoot 
Dawn & Nova
Very Active Member
Are you able to delay his shot time if nobody gets here quick enough? I can give a if you have no choice dose.. but it would be best to wait for the s-m-r-t peoples
Jill & Alex (GA)
Very Active Member
we're talking. someone will post shortly...
Libby and Lucy
Very Active Member
ok, here's the plan:
it appears from these numbers that Boots went pretty low last night, and that 5 units is probably way too high a dose for him.
We suggest that you shoot 1 unit tonight, and depending on how tonight looks, probably 1 unit in the morning. Then we'll re-evaluate once the bounce clears to see if it looks like 1 unit will be a good dose to move forward.
Others posted in your other condo to explain why Boots' numbers are so high, does that make sense to you? It's normal, it CAN take up to 72 hours to clear out, although last time Boots bounced high it started to clear the next day. By giving him a couple of cycles on a much lower dose, it will give a chance for his "shed" to empty and we can get a better idea of what his numbers would be without the influence of so much insulin.
It is possible that even 1 unit is too much, so I would like for you to get a couple of spot checks tonight and tomorrow in case he drops low again.
Ok? Questions?
it appears from these numbers that Boots went pretty low last night, and that 5 units is probably way too high a dose for him.
We suggest that you shoot 1 unit tonight, and depending on how tonight looks, probably 1 unit in the morning. Then we'll re-evaluate once the bounce clears to see if it looks like 1 unit will be a good dose to move forward.
Others posted in your other condo to explain why Boots' numbers are so high, does that make sense to you? It's normal, it CAN take up to 72 hours to clear out, although last time Boots bounced high it started to clear the next day. By giving him a couple of cycles on a much lower dose, it will give a chance for his "shed" to empty and we can get a better idea of what his numbers would be without the influence of so much insulin.
It is possible that even 1 unit is too much, so I would like for you to get a couple of spot checks tonight and tomorrow in case he drops low again.
Ok? Questions?
Here's the link to your previous condo: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11853
Remember for tomorrow to copy this line at the top (near your homepage icon) into your first post in your new condo for the day -- one condo, per cat, per day. When you post, the format is:
date kitty's name AMPS # --> 4/14 Boots AMPS=###
Great job getting the SS set up, btw.
Remember for tomorrow to copy this line at the top (near your homepage icon) into your first post in your new condo for the day -- one condo, per cat, per day. When you post, the format is:
date kitty's name AMPS # --> 4/14 Boots AMPS=###
Great job getting the SS set up, btw.
Please, please do not be offended with my questions. I understand what a great favor you are doing for me. All I know about feline diabetes I read on this site starting on Saturday so basically nothing but I'm very motivated. I would like to know the thought process so I understand as well as possible. How come the dose doesn't drop one unit like the way it was raised? Wouldn't I be bypassing his ideal dose by starting at one again? Is it very dangerous to have bg high? If we start at one again would we leave it for a week or with testing be able to get closer to ideal faster? How often should I test after this dose? I still haven't fed him so that means it's going higher yet, right? Thanks.
Libby and Lucy
Very Active Member
if you had worked up to the 5 unit dose slowly according to protocol, then yes, dose reductions would be done slowly. In that case, we usually reduce by 0.25 units at a time. We can do that because of the way we work up to the dose (also by 0.25 units at a time, and only after a lot of testing). By working up to a dose that way, we know the dose is safe. For example, if Boots had worked up to 4.75 units and was still getting high numbers, we would know that 4.75 wasn't enough, so it was safe to increase to 5 units.
However, without the data to back up those dose increases, we have no way of knowing if 5 units is safe for Boots. We're thinking that it is probably not - after dropping to 80 at +3 last night, and waking up even lower than that, Boots could have gone much, much lower than 80 last night. The fact that his bounce is as high as it is means that he probably did go quite a bit lower. We don't know how low. We do know that a dose that is too high, causing numbers to remain in the 40's 14 hours later, can be very dangerous. His liver can protect him for a while, but you can't count on it to do so every single time. Probably something very similar happened overnight on the 9th to cause his bounce to the 500's.
Numbers that are too low can kill instantly. Numbers that are too high can cause him to be uncomfortable, and over time can cause problems, but in the short term it's much safer to be too high than too low.
However, without the data to back up those dose increases, we have no way of knowing if 5 units is safe for Boots. We're thinking that it is probably not - after dropping to 80 at +3 last night, and waking up even lower than that, Boots could have gone much, much lower than 80 last night. The fact that his bounce is as high as it is means that he probably did go quite a bit lower. We don't know how low. We do know that a dose that is too high, causing numbers to remain in the 40's 14 hours later, can be very dangerous. His liver can protect him for a while, but you can't count on it to do so every single time. Probably something very similar happened overnight on the 9th to cause his bounce to the 500's.
Numbers that are too low can kill instantly. Numbers that are too high can cause him to be uncomfortable, and over time can cause problems, but in the short term it's much safer to be too high than too low.
Libby and Lucy
Very Active Member
I should add... none of the numbers we saw today are numbers that would kill instantly. They're actually quite safe when managed properly. What is giving us pause are the numbers we didn't see last night, and also the possibility that he could continue to drop very low if the 5 unit dose was continued. Make sense?
Thank you Libby for the excellent explanation. There wasn't any real testing info except for the three or four bg run at the vet's office. All three were 200-400. I gave him the one unit and a can of food, he liked the food. How often should I test him? Please check back tomorrow and let me know what you think.
Thanks for the link Sienna, I'll use it and your advice in the am.
Thanks for the link Sienna, I'll use it and your advice in the am.
Libby and Lucy
Very Active Member
I would get a test at your bedtime. If it's a lot lower, then post for advice. Probably he'll still be high. Then test again in the morning before shooting, and if it surprises you in any way (too high or too low) post for advice. Get any spot checks you can during the day tomorrow, and Jill and I (and others, I'm sure) will take a look to see what is going on. 1 unit is probably not going to be enough insulin in the long run, but it will be a lot easier to safely work on his dose if we start lower.
GREAT job today, I'm sooooooooo glad you're testing now! If you hadn't tested, you would have shot 5 units on a 45. Really fantastic job. :YMHUG:
GREAT job today, I'm sooooooooo glad you're testing now! If you hadn't tested, you would have shot 5 units on a 45. Really fantastic job. :YMHUG:
As long as you open a condo, there are people who will check in with you and help to watch your back. This is an incredible community of people who are very dedicated to helping each other manage their cat's diabetes. If you yell for help, people come running. This is an international group and there is usually someone around 24/7. And, no one is offended by your asking a question either about your cat or theirs. It's how we all learn.
There is a tremendous amount of information available here. It is, at times -- especially in the beginning -- overwhelming. No one expects that you will master everything overnight. To some degree, the collective expertise here in the area of feline diabetes may exceed that of most vets who have to juggle knowing at least the minimum about a huge number of illnesses across who knows how many species of animals. Our primary focus is feline diabetes.
How often to test is a tricky question. If you open SSs, you'll see a vast difference in how much people test. I like having data so I test -- a lot. While Gabby can throw me a surprise or two, having the amount of information that I have allows me to a degree, predict how her cycle will go. I like to get a +2 because that does give me a clue how the cycle is headed. It's helpful to get a test in at mid-cycle if you are home to do so. Likewise, a test toward the end of the cycle let's you know where numbers are at in relation to your next shot time. In addition to AMPS and PMPS, at minimum, test before you leave the house, when you come home and before bed. There are other times, like if numbers are running low, that you will need to test more frequently. (Again, if you look at Gabby's SS, you will see those times.)
There is a tremendous amount of information available here. It is, at times -- especially in the beginning -- overwhelming. No one expects that you will master everything overnight. To some degree, the collective expertise here in the area of feline diabetes may exceed that of most vets who have to juggle knowing at least the minimum about a huge number of illnesses across who knows how many species of animals. Our primary focus is feline diabetes.
How often to test is a tricky question. If you open SSs, you'll see a vast difference in how much people test. I like having data so I test -- a lot. While Gabby can throw me a surprise or two, having the amount of information that I have allows me to a degree, predict how her cycle will go. I like to get a +2 because that does give me a clue how the cycle is headed. It's helpful to get a test in at mid-cycle if you are home to do so. Likewise, a test toward the end of the cycle let's you know where numbers are at in relation to your next shot time. In addition to AMPS and PMPS, at minimum, test before you leave the house, when you come home and before bed. There are other times, like if numbers are running low, that you will need to test more frequently. (Again, if you look at Gabby's SS, you will see those times.)
Deb & Spot
Very Active Member
Hi Liz! I'm just dropping in to see how things are going on with you guys. Looks like Libby and Sienna have your questions and concerns covered.
Hope things look good with the 1u!
Hope things look good with the 1u!
Michelle and Mannie (GA)
Very Active Member
HI - and just dropping in to see how Boots is doing - looks like Libby and Sienne have you covered. And don't worry - no question is ever to silly or boring or unimportant. It's how we learn, and these ladies will help. They are great!
Hope Boots likes the new dose.
Hope Boots likes the new dose.
paige
Very Active Member
Wow Liz, I bet you are pretty nervous. I am glad that you were advised to lower Boot's dose down to 1 unit. And hopefully he will clear that bounce quickly. Hang in there!! :mrgreen:
ETA (edited to add)---((((((LIz)))))) We would NEVER be offended by ANY questions. We are started here as newbies and were completely overwhelmed. It is quite a learning curve. And everything Sienne said it true. There were mornings I would wake up and not know what to shoot. I would get on here and put "HELP!" in my subject line and sure enough someone would pop in to help. It never took more than ~15 minutes. My DH calls this my "support group" and that is really what it is. Heck, these ladies and kitties have become like an extended family. You learn about each others cats. Help cheer along the good and help support the bad. (hugs to you)
ETA (edited to add)---((((((LIz)))))) We would NEVER be offended by ANY questions. We are started here as newbies and were completely overwhelmed. It is quite a learning curve. And everything Sienne said it true. There were mornings I would wake up and not know what to shoot. I would get on here and put "HELP!" in my subject line and sure enough someone would pop in to help. It never took more than ~15 minutes. My DH calls this my "support group" and that is really what it is. Heck, these ladies and kitties have become like an extended family. You learn about each others cats. Help cheer along the good and help support the bad. (hugs to you)
Marvie and Tugger
Very Active Member
I agree completely. I've never had to wait long to get some sort of response when I put a help request in the subject line. They've really helped me out a lot =) You're in great hands here! Just wait till you see the huge changes in your baby once you find the right dose =) It's pretty awesome to see them start acting like their pre-FD selves again.
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