Chuck and Susan
Member Since 2010
After the dip into the upper 60's/low 70's last night, I was concerned about shooting an increased dose this morning. I'll be testing every couple of hours, but expect he's bouncing again.
3/9 Chuck 498 PMPS; 0.1U
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Chuck and Susan
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/9 Chuck 351 AMPS; 0.1U; 495 +2
And the bouncing begins...
And the bouncing begins...
Chuck and Susan
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/9 Chuck 351 AMPS; 0.1U; 495 +2; 562 +4
562 @ +4, and rising -- he'll be well over 600 by pre-shot. I just can't do this anymore. What can I expect if I just don't give him any more insulin?
562 @ +4, and rising -- he'll be well over 600 by pre-shot. I just can't do this anymore. What can I expect if I just don't give him any more insulin?
Chuck and Susan
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/9 Chuck 351 AMPS; 0.1U; 495 +2; 562 +4-stop giving ins
bump
bump
Tracy & Leo
Member Since 2011
Re: 3/9 Chuck 351 AMPS; 0.1U; 495 +2; 562 +4-stop giving ins
Well it looks Chuck is bouncing from last nights greens, his little body isn't used to being in "normal" numbers so his body's response is to bounce back up to his usual high numbers.
If you stopped giving insulin i would imagine Chuck would go into diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) which is a life threatening situation.
All it takes is some time and patience for him to get used to insulin, get over his bounce, hang in there and don't stop giving insulin!
Well it looks Chuck is bouncing from last nights greens, his little body isn't used to being in "normal" numbers so his body's response is to bounce back up to his usual high numbers.
If you stopped giving insulin i would imagine Chuck would go into diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) which is a life threatening situation.
All it takes is some time and patience for him to get used to insulin, get over his bounce, hang in there and don't stop giving insulin!
Re: 3/9 Chuck 351 AMPS; 0.1U; 495 +2; 562 +4-stop giving ins
Well, I sure don't know from any experience, but logically, if you are getting lows and super bounces from just ONE drop, I wonder if you could try to stop that one drop.
I don't know your story, so I really can't say much else. I don't think you would need to worry about DKA if you stop giving that one drop, but others can correct me if I am wrong.
What about review all that you are doing... double check diet and feeding times, look closely at location of the shots as some find scruff can slow down absorption and maybe lessen the bouncing, think about short needle or long as some say that they get better results from one or the other, and be very sure that you ARE giving just one drop - review your method for measuring and consider making a change as you can eyeball it or you can do a twist drop out method.
Well, I sure don't know from any experience, but logically, if you are getting lows and super bounces from just ONE drop, I wonder if you could try to stop that one drop.
I don't know your story, so I really can't say much else. I don't think you would need to worry about DKA if you stop giving that one drop, but others can correct me if I am wrong.
What about review all that you are doing... double check diet and feeding times, look closely at location of the shots as some find scruff can slow down absorption and maybe lessen the bouncing, think about short needle or long as some say that they get better results from one or the other, and be very sure that you ARE giving just one drop - review your method for measuring and consider making a change as you can eyeball it or you can do a twist drop out method.
RubenTheCat
Member Since 2013
Re: 3/9 Chuck 351 AMPS; 0.1U; 495 +2; 562 +4-stop giving ins
I do not give dosing advise, but I would edit you subject line and put a question mark on the top, Wait for an expert, some one who has over 5000 or more posts.
Either way sending vines, don't give up, I know it's super stressfull(read any of my early posts, I was crazy pants ou of control) but stick with the program and breath and try to relax into it. You can do this.
I do not give dosing advise, but I would edit you subject line and put a question mark on the top, Wait for an expert, some one who has over 5000 or more posts.
Either way sending vines, don't give up, I know it's super stressfull(read any of my early posts, I was crazy pants ou of control) but stick with the program and breath and try to relax into it. You can do this.
Chuck and Susan
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/9 Chuck 495 +2; 562 +4; 458 +6; 511 +8
He hit nadir at +6 and is climbing his way towards another >600 pre-shot.
He hit nadir at +6 and is climbing his way towards another >600 pre-shot.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 3/9 Chuck 351 AMPS; 0.1U; 495 +2; 562 +4
susan, a few days ago libby offered some sage advice: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=90332&p=968336#p968336. the part about experimenting with the timing of meals could offer a solution, but we won't know unless you try. free-feeding just isn't working for chuck. it's very, very possible you can use food to manipulate the curve in an effort to avoid him dropping too fast... followed by the horrific bounce.
using food manipulation is a lot of trial and error. many of us posting in this forum use the technique, but it takes some work (experimentation) to perfect the technique to the individual cat.
as libby mentioned:
"An example would be to divide his normal meal into a few mini-meals. Feed part of his meal at PS, part at +1, part at +2, then experiment and move those meals around until you figure out what works best for Chuck. It will take some time to find the right balance - don't expect to see immediate results, but I do think this will help in the long run.
The reason I think it is important is because Chuck obviously needs more insulin to get out of the 500s, but more insulin will probably make him drop even faster (and therefore bounce even more). We need to find a way to give him the amount of insulin he needs without letting him drop too fast or too low."
many/most of our caregivers who work outside the home use a timed feeder to make sure kitty is fed at specific times. basically, you want to feed before the drop. this is done to slow him down before he's dropped too fast or too low.
make sense? are you willing to try the technique to see if it helps chuck? libby offered an example of how to start.
number of posts has nothing to do with the experience level of any fdmb member. chatty cathy's can rack up more posts in one week than some of our experienced members do in months.
btw, none of us are "experts". some simply have more experience than others. :mrgreen:
if you choose to stop giving insulin you can expect chuck to become sicker. other complications will probably set in. it pains me to say this, but choosing euthanasia is more humane choice than not treating his illness.Chuck and Susan said:
susan, a few days ago libby offered some sage advice: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=90332&p=968336#p968336. the part about experimenting with the timing of meals could offer a solution, but we won't know unless you try. free-feeding just isn't working for chuck. it's very, very possible you can use food to manipulate the curve in an effort to avoid him dropping too fast... followed by the horrific bounce.
using food manipulation is a lot of trial and error. many of us posting in this forum use the technique, but it takes some work (experimentation) to perfect the technique to the individual cat.
as libby mentioned:
"An example would be to divide his normal meal into a few mini-meals. Feed part of his meal at PS, part at +1, part at +2, then experiment and move those meals around until you figure out what works best for Chuck. It will take some time to find the right balance - don't expect to see immediate results, but I do think this will help in the long run.
The reason I think it is important is because Chuck obviously needs more insulin to get out of the 500s, but more insulin will probably make him drop even faster (and therefore bounce even more). We need to find a way to give him the amount of insulin he needs without letting him drop too fast or too low."
many/most of our caregivers who work outside the home use a timed feeder to make sure kitty is fed at specific times. basically, you want to feed before the drop. this is done to slow him down before he's dropped too fast or too low.
make sense? are you willing to try the technique to see if it helps chuck? libby offered an example of how to start.
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gayle, chuck suffered a horrific symptomatic hypo complete with seizures when he was on insulin the first time. it took almost 24 hours for his numbers to rise while under a vet's care. susan collected several months worth of data before resuming insulin. numbers are on chuck ss. you can see the need for insulin beginning in november of last year. years ago, this hypoglycemic event left chuck ultra-sensitive to insulin.Blue said:
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samantha, if only it were that simple. lol!RubenTheCat said:
number of posts has nothing to do with the experience level of any fdmb member. chatty cathy's can rack up more posts in one week than some of our experienced members do in months.
btw, none of us are "experts". some simply have more experience than others. :mrgreen:
Chuck and Susan
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/9 Chuck 495 +2; 562 +4; 458 +6; 511 +8; 544 +10
Do those who use timed feeders or mini-meals have other, non-diabetic cats? I have 3 others. Right now, if Chuck isn't overly hungry, I can pretty much bet that one of the 3 will eat all of Chuck's food and any other food they can.
So, basically mini-meals are part of the normal meal at morning shot, part about an hour later and the last part about 2 hours later? Do the same both morning and evening? It certainly wouldn't hurt the others to have the mini-meals...
I can try mini-meals, but with his numbers so high, won't I be "starving" him? Should I start those tonight, while he's bouncing or wait until the bounce clears again?
I'm just so frustrated with it this time around, it seemed so much easier the first time. Last night, I fed HC at +3 because I didn't want him to drop too far, hoping to avoid a bounce. So, I stayed up most of the night, testing, and didn't do anything except watch him bounce today. And I can't do a dose in/decrease because I can't get non-bouncing numbers for any length of time to base the change on.
Do those who use timed feeders or mini-meals have other, non-diabetic cats? I have 3 others. Right now, if Chuck isn't overly hungry, I can pretty much bet that one of the 3 will eat all of Chuck's food and any other food they can.
So, basically mini-meals are part of the normal meal at morning shot, part about an hour later and the last part about 2 hours later? Do the same both morning and evening? It certainly wouldn't hurt the others to have the mini-meals...
I can try mini-meals, but with his numbers so high, won't I be "starving" him? Should I start those tonight, while he's bouncing or wait until the bounce clears again?
I'm just so frustrated with it this time around, it seemed so much easier the first time. Last night, I fed HC at +3 because I didn't want him to drop too far, hoping to avoid a bounce. So, I stayed up most of the night, testing, and didn't do anything except watch him bounce today. And I can't do a dose in/decrease because I can't get non-bouncing numbers for any length of time to base the change on.
Re: 3/9 Chuck 495 +2; 562 +4; 458 +6; 511 +8; 544 +10
I use a timed feeder and I have a civvie at home. I use the feeder when I'm at work. I also feed at pre-shot, +1, +2 and +3 and both cats get food at those times. Basically, I split up their total food for the cycle into portions for when I'm feeding. Gabby is one of those kitties who can take a fast dive early in the cycle. The mini-meals doesn't eliminate the problem but it has certainly helped.
I use a timed feeder and I have a civvie at home. I use the feeder when I'm at work. I also feed at pre-shot, +1, +2 and +3 and both cats get food at those times. Basically, I split up their total food for the cycle into portions for when I'm feeding. Gabby is one of those kitties who can take a fast dive early in the cycle. The mini-meals doesn't eliminate the problem but it has certainly helped.
Chuck and Susan
Member Since 2010
I'm going to try the mini-meals starting tonight. Do you give them a certain amount of time to eat and then pick up what's leftover? Right now, all 4 plates have leftovers, but that may be due to the free feeding prior to this time.
Did I never mention that Gabby's middle name is "Hoover?" She never met a plate of food she didn't like! She routinely shoves Gizmo away from HIS bowl. I think you're fine leaving the food out.
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