3/8 Frankie AMPS 302

[Jay]

At last I was close.

In the meantime, at 7 1/2 he is at 115. Gonna be ugly tomorrow morning.

Jay

It's close, but not quite.

It wouldn't keep him stable for long, but it would prevent his numbers from rising very high initially. You probably would have a few hours before they started creeping up. And this can only happen once his shed is full and he's at a good maintenance dose, and he would never drop much while on the shed's insulin.. just maintain or creep up, rather than fly up.

 

[Jay]

At +8 he is at 125 he sould be fine for the rest of the night, by I will be checking to make sure

I think you can breathe now,and maybe the hair on the back of your neck wont be standing any longer :smile:

jay

It's close, but not quite.

It wouldn't keep him stable for long, but it would prevent his numbers from rising very high initially. You probably would have a few hours before they started creeping up. And this can only happen once his shed is full and he's at a good maintenance dose, and he would never drop much while on the shed's insulin.. just maintain or creep up, rather than fly up.

 

[Carolyn and Spot]

Ok good don't relax yet..he's got carbs in him so he could still drop. Comparably, a cat loaded down with high carb at +8 should be far higher than that. Every 1 hour should be good for tests right now. I'm feeling better but I'll not be happy until he's made it through the next several hours without dropping again.. so I'll pop by to check on you every now and then

 

[Helene & Tizon]

I'm not going to interfere with this post, however, I wanted to stop by and support the others. I used PZI before switching to lantus and my brain also needed to be reprogramed. Pls consider the advice of the people on this forum very seriously, it's gold!

 

[Jay]

I'm on top of him
In two hours or so, he went from Non Diabetic numbers to diabetic numbers. Plus 9 he is at 230.

Do you think at this point there is a shot at him tanking out?

I wasnt kidding about the amount of Evo I gave him, which is why he didnt go sky high due to the food.

This is trial and error time, on the fly and learning from my mistakes is the best way for me to learn. Regardless of how much reading before hand I could do, and absorbing as much as I could in a short period of time, pales in comparison to real world experience.

Just so you know, I will never let him crash on me . I am somewhat, manic about the management of his condition, as to a large degree we all are here. I saw it once ( he was just showing signs of Hypo and caught it with a spot check) and it made my hair stand on end.

I keep baby feeders (large syringes) to force feed high carb wet, into him if needed in an emergency in his emergency kit along with everything eles you can think of to bring his sugar up if need be.

Just so you know, I will never let him crash on me . I am somewhat, manic about the management of his condition, as to a large degree we all are here. I saw it once ( he was just showing signs of Hypo and caught it with a spot check) and it made my hair stand on end.

I'll keep testing and posting.

Thanks for the education and the help
Jay

Ok good don't relax yet..he's got carbs in him so he could still drop. Comparably, a cat loaded down with high carb at +8 should be far higher than that. Every 1 hour should be good for tests right now. I'm feeling better but I'll not be happy until he's made it through the next several hours without dropping again.. so I'll pop by to check on you every now and then

 

[Roni and Moonie]

JAY!!!!!!!! NOW DO YOU BELIEVE??? YOU HAD THE BEST PEEPS HERE TO HELP YOU & SO GLAD THEY WERE HERE!!!!
I had Faith in you that you would understand all this & that This is Best for Frankie, after we spoke this morning..
Lantus is a great unsulin--You were in the best hands here!
I'm Glad I made you promise to try it here!! You will be glad too!
WELCOME TO LANTUS LAND!!! :mrgreen:

 

[Jay]

I didnt come here not to listen but to learn from others who have gone before.

I learn best from my mistakes. I could have poured thru all the reading material over and over unitl it was almost memorized, yet there is no substitute for real world experience of which Frankie and I are acquiring.

His emergency supplies, takes up 1/4 of the cabinet space I have in my kitchen.
Their day to day supplies take up another 1/4

"Make Room For Daddy" only people in their 50's will remember that TV show (Danny Thomas)

I have also been questioning whose bed and covers that are sitting in the bedroom. I do recall paying for it all. :roll:
Cat Rule

Jay

JAY!!!!!!!! NOW DO YOU BELIEVE??? YOU HAD THE BEST PEEPS HERE TO HELP YOU & SO GLAD THEY WERE HERE!!!!
I had Faith in you that you would understand all this & that This is Best for Frankie, after we spoke this morning..
Lantus is a great unsulin--You were in the best hands here!
I'm Glad I made you promise to try it here!! You will be glad too!
WELCOME TO LANTUS LAND!!! :mrgreen:

 

[Sara & Magnolia]

I don't want to echo either, you've received spectacular advice so far. It's very difficult to unlearn something you know so well. Good for you for trying.

Take a look at Magnolia's SS (ignore the low numbers in Nov, that was a crappy meter) She is recently diagnosed (10/09) so it is different, but we followed the protocol, and found her dose. With the help of all the amazingly helpful, caring individuals on this board, she's finally regulated. It was nerve-wracking and took much longer than I wanted. I tried so hard to rush it, I wanted to fix her NOW. But I listened to the advice of these experienced folks and here we are, well-regulated, and decreasing her dose often. I have been told by 2 vets that she will never go off insulin because her diabetes is genetic. Lately, it looks like her beta cells are healing, her pancreas is slowly kicking in, and whether she goes OTJ or not, she is healthy and happy.

Good luck with the Lantus. My favorite metaphor is to compare the SS to those magic eye 3-d posters from the 90's. So hard to see, but once you do, you get it. You'll get it. It took me a few months, and I still have questions, but that's what the board is for.

 

[Jay]

At +10 351

I dont even want to feed him till the morning.

Oh well..we start over early AM with 2 units. Till when? Beats me, you would know better then I.

Jay

Ok good don't relax yet..he's got carbs in him so he could still drop. Comparably, a cat loaded down with high carb at +8 should be far higher than that. Every 1 hour should be good for tests right now. I'm feeling better but I'll not be happy until he's made it through the next several hours without dropping again.. so I'll pop by to check on you every now and then

 

[Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)]

Oh my goodness I just saw all of this. Hi Jay. Thank goodness Carolyn and Roni and the others were here this afternoon. I shudder to think of what coulda woulda happened.

Thank you for listening. We have all been in that dark place where we think we know what's best but we have absolutely no idea what we are doing and we need the help of those who have been through all of this before. I'm just beginning to see the light and I am so grateful. You will be too.

We all want what's best for our and each others fur babies. No one here will let you down if you let them help you and that's a fact. Your kitty is in great hands
('Make Room For Daddy' was a great show) ;-)
Caryl

 

[Sara & Magnolia]

As far as "til when"? Following the protocol, as i hope you are...you will hold the initial dose for 5-7 days. Give Frankie's body some time to get used to it. Gather lots of data, since you are home. And go from there.

 

[Jay]

Exactly why I showed up here again, after 3 years of not posting

52 was a good number though. I like double digit readings.

Its going to be a while now before I see them again. Hopefully it will happen again before I catch him hugging is water bowl, while he is sleeping.

Seeing that broke my heart 4 years ago.

Jay

Oh my goodness I just saw all of this. Hi Jay. Thank goodness Carolyn and Roni and the others were here this afternoon. I shudder to think of what coulda woulda happened.

Thank you for listening. We have all been in that dark place where we think we know what's best but we have absolutely no idea what we are doing and we need the help of those who have been through all of this before. I'm just beginning to see the light and I am so grateful. You will be too.

We all want what's best for our and each others fur babies. No one here will let you down if you let them help you and that's a fact. Your kitty is in great hands
('Make Room For Daddy' was a great show) ;-)
Caryl

 

[Jay]

talk about data.

I need more culumns on my ss, already for 1/2 hour spot checks.

He is way high now, so he is safe, and other then keeping an eye on him there is I dont think a reason to continue to test for the night. I am not giving him a dose tonight and we will start all over again tomorrow.

He's a champ. 35 pokes in 2 days or so. His ear needs a rest and I need some sleep.

Thanks
Jay

As far as "til when"? Following the protocol, as i hope you are...you will hold the initial dose for 5-7 days. Give Frankie's body some time to get used to it. Gather lots of data, since you are home. And go from there.

 

[Carolyn and Spot]

Ok that's better. Please check 2 more times tonight, it doesn't matter specifically when. Just want to make sure he doesn't come down from that number and sneak back into the danger zone. Like I said, I don't care if he's 900 for 9 hours. All of this can be straightened out with a couple days of insulin and LC food. Do not stress out about the crappy numbers. 99% of them are going to be rebound.

 

[Jay]

The last time I checked he was at 350 that was 2 hours ago.

Better??? You mean safer for the moment.

I'll check again before I feed them.

Is there a way to test so you dont see the results...arrgggghh.

The only thing that will really really really stress me out will see him hugging his water bowl while he is sleeping.

Jay

Ok that's better. Please check 2 more times tonight, it doesn't matter specifically when. Just want to make sure he doesn't come down from that number and sneak back into the danger zone. Like I said, I don't care if he's 900 for 9 hours. All of this can be straightened out with a couple days of insulin and LC food. Do not stress out about the crappy numbers. 99% of them are going to be rebound.

 

[Jay]

The last time I checked he was at 350 that was 2 hours ago.

And now 555. thats is. no more testing till tomorrow.

Better??? You mean safer for the moment.

I'll check again before I feed them.

Is there a way to test so you dont see the results...arrgggghh.

The only thing that will really really really stress me out will see him hugging his water bowl while he is sleeping.

I'm going to start him again at 2 units early in the AM..like 5:30 and spot check a few times druing the day as opposed to having a poke fest.

Jay

Ok that's better. Please check 2 more times tonight, it doesn't matter specifically when. Just want to make sure he doesn't come down from that number and sneak back into the danger zone. Like I said, I don't care if he's 900 for 9 hours. All of this can be straightened out with a couple days of insulin and LC food. Do not stress out about the crappy numbers. 99% of them are going to be rebound.

 

[Carolyn and Spot]

i'm not gonna lie to you, that might happen, but it will only be very temporary. you'll fix him up. you gotta work on calming your pzi 'kill that number' nerves now. it's hard, but you have to or you'll be having a very difficult time over the next few days as this clears. it's really gonna be bad, and there is nothing you can do about it except watch it. the worst thing ever for a pzi user. it's not gonna be hard forever though, and when you see how he feels on lantus you're gonna be very happy

tomorrows numbers, you will need +3, +6, +9 unless he is running low at any of those spot checks :smile:

 

[Jay]

At this point what options are left

Its going to be tough calming that "PZI mentality" after 4 1/2 yrears of it. Old dogs new tricks king of thing.

But its not about me. Its about him

i'm not gonna lie to you, that might happen, but it will only be very temporary. you'll fix him up. you gotta work on calming your pzi 'kill that number' nerves now. it's hard, but you have to or you'll be having a very difficult time over the next few days as this clears. it's really gonna be bad, and there is nothing you can do about it except watch it. the worst thing ever for a pzi user. it's not gonna be hard forever though, and when you see how he feels on lantus you're gonna be very happy [

tomorrows numbers, you will need +3, +6, +9 unless he is running low at any of those spot checks :smile:

 

[Roni and Moonie]

I know Make Room for Daddy, so you just need to make room for lantus :lol: :lol: I also live in NY!
He's not going to go back where he was, because he has been treated all these years with PZI--They dont get that water bowl thing unless they have been FD for a long while,and had no treatment--We are talking about one night!
He'll be high, but this detox is needed..Tomorrow you'll be happy, you will see! @-)
Now his ears can heal some(do you use vaseline or neosporin on them?)

 

[Hillary & Maui (GA)]

By any chance do you add water to his canned food? I started doing this and now my cats don't drink water or care about the water bowls.

I add more than most, I take a friskies can (5.5 ounce) fill it and split it among 3 food bowls. So, yes, makes the food very moist and soupy, but also gives the cats lots and lots of water - which do result in lots and lots of pee balls in the LB.

Just something to think about and try.

Also, the concerns shown here yesterday and today are because when a cat starts with high numbers like 300's and drops down 200 points to 100 or less, the cat is going to shoot back up to the 300's or even higher and it's gotta make the cat feel horrible.

Think about it like this - have you ever had the feeling that you were absolutely starving and knew you needed food and you would eat anything and everything you could get your hands on, because your head felt funny, your stomach started hurting? So, you stuff yourself with anything, cookies, chips, candy, cereal, whatever you can find that is easily accessible. Within minutes you start to feel better, within an hour you start to feel like crap - stuffed, bloated, tired and you think, what did I just eat?

Well you were starving (crashing) you fed the crash, started to feel better, but then you went way overboard, then felt horrible - that's how the cat feels. Does that make sense?

Or think about a tennis ball and how it bounces across the court - up down up down up down - imagine your body feeling like that up down up down up down - it doesn't feel good you know....

I read through your posts and see that you mentioned your cat is a high dose cat several times - my question to you, is how do you know this? Was an acro or cushings test ever done to determine if your cat really is "high dose"? Or are you just assuming this based on your PZI experience?

In order to know for sure if you have a high dose cat, you need to have tests run. There is a forum for high dose cats and I believe I saw one on a dose of 30 units BID! Now that's high dose.

What you most likely have is a normal diabetic guy, who will hopefully one day go into remission (OTJ) and if not be on a small enough dose of Lantus that you will become an expert and it won't be a big deal.

Yes, Maui is one of the lucky ones. She is OTJ - thanks to this board. I listened, I followed the instructions and learned (and am still learning).

Good luck in the am, with that 2 unit dose.

 

[Jay]

His ears have toiughend up over the years and countless numbers of pokes.

I use both NeoSporin and Vaselin and JustforMen (ooops thats for me, not Frankie)

Jay

I know Make Room for Daddy, so you just need to make room for lantus :lol: :lol: I also live in NY!
He's not going to go back where he was, because he has been treated all these years with PZI--They dont get that water bowl thing unless they have been FD for a long while,and had no treatment--We are talking about one night!
He'll be high, but this detox is needed..Tomorrow you'll be happy, you will see! @-)
Now his ears can heal some(do you use vaseline or neosporin on them?)