3.4.21 NEW MEMBER Cleo and Chris - BG right now is 742!

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Cleo and Chris

Member Since 2021
Hi All and thank you in advance. New members.

Cleo is 17 and has:
early CKD (but vet says ultrasound of kidneys shows them to look much worse than her numbers??)
Diagnosed Diabetic 1/25/21 (was on Vetsulin; ER vet switched her to Glargine)

Was in ER 2/22-2/24 and was further diagnosed with:

Severe Anemia (received blood transfusion; left ER with 21%)
Pancreatitis or possible pancreatic cancer (aspiration contained no cancer cells but pancreas "looked horrible")

Since diabetes diagnosis, we have not been able to get Cleo's BG under control. It's all over the place. The lowest we've clocked it at with home monitor has been 222.

She's been acting weird today (even weirder than she has been for being so sick)...very lethargic and sitting over by her water bowl which she normally only will do for moments at a time and is sitting now with head hanging down, eyes closed.

Vet says don't give her insulin. She's normally not due until 9:30 pm tonight. I was wondering if I should give her some now.

Prior to this sudden downturn for Cleo prompting the trip to the ER, she was a pretty sprightly 17 cat.

Help please.
 
Hi Chris,

You've not done anything wrong, it's just the board's a bit quiet at the moment. I'm sorry no-one got to you sooner.

Cleo and Chris said:
She's been acting weird today (even weirder than she has been for being so sick)...very lethargic and sitting over by her water bowl which she normally only will do for moments at a time and is sitting now with head hanging down, eyes closed.
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With the high numbers, the clinical signs you're seeing and the history of early DKA I'd strongly recommend you get in touch with a vet as a matter of urgency to check Cleo's ketone status. While there's no guarantee that's what's wrong, what you are describing sounds an awful lot like what you'd see in a cat who's in ketosis/DKA.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Hi Chris,

You've not done anything wrong, it's just the board's a bit quiet at the moment. I'm sorry no-one got to you sooner.


With the high numbers, the clinical signs you're seeing and the history of early DKA I'd strongly recommend you get in touch with a vet as a matter of urgency to check Cleo's ketone status. While there's no guarantee that's what's wrong, what you are describing sounds an awful lot like what you'd see in a cat who's in ketosis/DKA.


Mogs
.
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That's good to hear, thanks. I know there are rules and wasn't sure if I followed all of them in my panic to post. Thank you so much for responding.

Do you mean like take her to the ER? If not, how do I check her ketone status?

My regular vet has said to me, through text message, to "stay on schedule"...
 
You posted in the right forum :bighug:
Another time, if you have a emergency or crisis, put the 911 tag on, or the ? it'll draw attention to your post.

Don't be afraid of doing something wrong, we've all been exactly where you are. In fact, mine had her one year anniversary an hour ago. Health first, other stuff afterwards.
I have to go to bed, but I'll check in on you tomorrow :bighug:
 
SashaV said:
You posted in the right forum :bighug:
Another time, if you have a emergency or crisis, put the 911 tag on, or the ? it'll draw attention to your post.

Don't be afraid of doing something wrong, we've all been exactly where you are. In fact, mine had her one year anniversary an hour ago. Health first, other stuff afterwards.
I have to go to bed, but I'll check in on you tomorrow :bighug:
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Thank you for your kindness, truly. :bighug: I really appreciate it. So sorry about the one year anniversary.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
If you have urine ketone sticks (Ketostix is one such brand) you can test for ketones yourself. Post with details here. Tips to catch and test a urine sample
If you can't test the ketones yourself, I'd do as Mogs suggested and contact the vet.

More details on DKA, including symptoms to be concerned about here: Ketones, Diabetic Ketoacidosis (DKA), and Blood Ketone Meters

How is Cleo's appetite? Is she eating at all?

We don't give Lantus ahead of schedule.
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Thank you for your response.

Ok, I did purchase some after the ER visit so have some on hand. So, it sounds like I don't necessarily need to rush to the ER right away?

Cleo's appetite has not been great. She ate a little bit of cat food this morning when she was looking a wee bit better and I also managed to convince her to eat about 3/4 of a jar of baby food. I am expecting that she will not likely want to eat dinner based on how she is acting now.

Ok regarding the Lantus. Thank you.
 
SashaV said:
You posted in the right forum :bighug:
Another time, if you have a emergency or crisis, put the 911 tag on, or the ? it'll draw attention to your post.

Don't be afraid of doing something wrong, we've all been exactly where you are. In fact, mine had her one year anniversary an hour ago. Health first, other stuff afterwards.
I have to go to bed, but I'll check in on you tomorrow :bighug:
Click to expand...


And thanks also for the tip regarding "911 or a ?". Will do.
 
Cleo and Chris said:
Do you mean like take her to the ER? If not, how do I check her ketone status?
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You check either by testing urine or with a blood ketone meter (test in same way as for glucose, with a blood droplet from the ear).

The trouble with ketones is that they can rise to dangerous levels very quickly. Even if you had strips it might be hours before you'd manage to get a urine sample (you're more likely to be able to find urine strips locally than a ketone meter). It's only just over a week since Cleo was suspected of being in the early stages of ketoacidosis and relapses are not unknown.

Whether or not it's ketones, Cleo sounds really unwell and the safest thing I can suggest to you is that you get her seen by a vet as soon as possible. Maybe you could ring the ER vets to get advice first on how to proceed before heading over to them?

Question: Did they tell you what was behind the anaemia?


Mogs
.
 
Cleo and Chris said:
So, it sounds like I don't necessarily need to rush to the ER right away?
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Depends on the ketones test results. As Mogs said, if you can't get this quickly, it can become dire fast. Calling the vets will tell you their availability, and maybe depending on time zone, you can get into a regular clinic vet vs an ER.
 
Critter Mom said:
You check either by testing urine or with a blood ketone meter (test in same way as for glucose, with a blood droplet from the ear).

The trouble with ketones is that they can rise to dangerous levels very quickly. Even if you had strips It might be hours before you'd manage to get a urine sample (you're more likely to be able to find urine strips locally than a ketone meter). It's only just over a week since Cleo was suspected of being in the early stages of ketoacidosis and relapses are not unknown.

Whether or not it's ketones, Cleo sounds really unwell and the safest thing I can suggest to you is that you get her seen by a vet as soon as possible. Maybe you could ring the ER vets to get advice first on how to proceed before heading over to them?

Question: Did they tell you what was behind the anaemia?


Mogs
.
Click to expand...


Shoot, so I need a ketone meter. As a side note, we've often had a lot of trouble getting blood from Cleo's ears even for the BG readings.

That's a good idea about seeing if the ER vet will give any advice. I'll call now.

Anaemia - they had no answers. :(
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Depends on the ketones test results. As Mogs said, if you can't get this quickly, it can become dire fast. Calling the vets will tell you their availability, and maybe depending on time zone, you can get into a regular clinic vet vs an ER.
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It's after hours here so it would have to be the ER vet if you think I need to go asap.
 
Cleo and Chris said:
Shoot, so I need a ketone meter.
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Not necessarily - if the the urine ketones strips work for you. Ketone meters help if you have multiple cats or your kitty is shy about their litter box habits. I had two cats, but they used separate boxes and went at different times so it was easy to just follow Neko into the room with the LB.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Not necessarily - if the the urine ketones strips work for you. Ketone meters help if you have multiple cats or your kitty is shy about their litter box habits. I had two cats, but they used separate boxes and went at different times so it was easy to just follow Neko into the room with the LB.
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Ah, ok, understood, thank you.
 
Food is a big no-go. Not having it. No regular food, no A/D, no baby food. I wonder if once I give her her insulin if she'll 'recover' a bit and eat then.
 
I'm not an expert but I think getting her to eat is really really important. Maybe try syringe feed her?

I hope she feels better!!! Sending hugs!!
 
Critter Mom said:
Chris, please can you look at this list of symptoms and tell us if Cleo has shown anything like of those behaviours when you offered her food just now:

Nausea symptom checklist


Mogs
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I can't say that she exhibited those symptoms specifically just when I tried to get her to eat just now. When I offered her food, she just simply turned away again and again. With the baby food, she took a few licks and then continued to turn away and walk away. She has been sitting next to her water bowl all day today. She has been drinking a bit but also was sometimes attempting to drink without really drinking. Come to think of it, she did sound a little hoarse earlier today at one point when she was actually purring.
 
Jia said:
I'm not an expert but I think getting her to eat is really really important. Maybe try syringe feed her?

I hope she feels better!!! Sending hugs!!
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Hi. I feel the same and had been contemplating whether I should try to do that.

Thank you very much! I appreciate it!
 
Cleo and Chris said:
I can't say that she exhibited those symptoms specifically just when I tried to get her to eat just now. When I offered her food, she just simply turned away again and again. With the baby food, she took a few licks and then continued to turn away and walk away. She has been sitting next to her water bowl all day today. She has been drinking a bit but also was sometimes attempting to drink without really drinking. Come to think of it, she did sound a little hoarse earlier today at one point when she was actually purring.
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She also did foam up after her liquid antibiotic (and always has) but I am told that is normal?
 
I have just given Cleo her normal insulin dose at the recommendation of my regular vet. Pray or cross your fingers for us. I'm hoping I might be able to get her to eat if she perks up.
 
Do you have a pharmacy open near you? If so, it'd be great to get some urinary ketone strips ASAP. Knowing her ketone values would tell you if it's an emergency. I'm still worried about her. Have you call any vets to see if they think she should go in?
 
Cleo and Chris said:
I wonder if once I give her her insulin if she'll 'recover' a bit and eat then.
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Please check Cleo's BG regulary. Without enough food on board she might go lower than previously. Have your hypo kit out and ready. Try to see if Chloe eat from your hand or a feeding syringe.

I still stand by my suggestion about calling the ER for advice on how to proceed, and taking her in if in any doubt.

Will check in again tomorrow. (It's 03:40 in the UK and my sleep meds have kicked in.)


Mogs
.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Do you have a pharmacy open near you? If so, it'd be great to get some urinary ketone strips ASAP. Knowing her ketone values would tell you if it's an emergency. I'm still worried about her. Have you call any vets to see if they think she should go in?
Click to expand...

I have Ketone strips and tested some pee on a pee pad. It came up negative but don't know if it works well coming from a pee pad.

I've called both ER vet and have been texting with my regular vet. We retook her BG about a half hour after the insulin bc of the twitching. The reading came back as "HI".

ER vet said recheck BG in another half hour and see if it starts coming down. Regular vet said it will take Lantus time to bring the BG down and to recheck.
 
Critter Mom said:
Please check Cleo's BG regulary. Without enough food on board she might go lower than previously. Have your hypo kit out and ready. Try to see if Chloe eat from your hand or a feeding syringe.

I still stand by my suggestion about calling the ER for advice on how to proceed, and taking her in if in any doubt.

Will check in again tomorrow. (It's 03:40 in the UK and my sleep meds have kicked in.)


Mogs
.
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I am so sorry for the late hour and thank you SO SO much for staying up to help. I appreciate it beyond words.

I will recheck her BG. I am also worried about the lack of food. I will definitely try to see if I can get her to eat or try to syringe feed her.

ER vet said also to recheck her BG and see how it goes and bring her in if it doesn't start to come down.
 
Hi Mogs,

Thank you for your concern and checking in. I have started and stopped a post several times today.

Cleo is not doing well...she seemed to have a potential TIA (stroke) this AM almost immediately upon my getting up. She has remained in hiding all morning and day...spacing out or sleeping.

Her BG has continued to be sky high.

I have been in communication with both vets...they are both saying that maybe it's time...
 
Critter Mom said:
Saying a prayer for you and your little one.

(((Chris and Chloe)))

:bighug:


Mogs
.
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Sorry for the delayed response...my father stopped by...thank you for your prayers and kindness...it's amazing how much the support here means...I can't stress that enough...

I'm really struggling with whether we should be doing more or just letting her go...
 
Only you can know that.
I believe it's the best gift we can ever give.
The worst decision, but yet a gift.

There's actually a post on it, in the health link forum, almost at the bottom I believe.

Hugs to you Chris :bighug:
No matter what, you know her best so you'll make the right decision :bighug:
 
Thank you, Sasha. That was a beautiful thing to say in this moment and I can't thank you enough for that. Thanks also for the referral to the post.

And, finally, thank you for your invaluable sympathy and comfort. :bighug:
 
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