3/3 Felix PMPS 309 Gave 2u dose-now what?

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Jenner & Felix

Jenner & Felix

Member Since 2011
Hi guys!
Felix & I (newbies to FD) haven't posted here for a few days and we need your advice.

Our vet increased his Lantus dose to 2u on the 1st. and wanted to hold that dose for 5-7 days. I didn't test last night after shooting 2u at 7:45 p.m. This mornings amps at 7:30 was 86! and I didn't know what to do with that number. So I fed him a larger meal of Friskies mixed grill-he ate it all- and I shot 1.5u ten minutes late.

I'm not comfortable with splitting the dose, but don't know what to do about tonight's dose. Go back to the 2u? or stay at 1.5u? I've been recording data, but don't always know what it means collectively. I'm due to check +2 in 25 minutes (we use the Relion Confirm meter).

Any help would be appreciated! Including a reminder on how to bump my post up when needed through out the day.

BTW-I don't text, so I'm a little slow on some of the jargon.:>)
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86 (2u Lantus) +1 106- Advice Needed

Good morning guys! I don't want to give out any dosing advice because I don't feel comfortable with that but I do know normally if you have a lower then normal amps what you can do is not feed your kitty, and then retest in 10-15 minutes to see which way your kitty is moving, up or down. That's just something you can know now for future reference. I know you don't have a lot of data right now but this 86 is a great place to start the day out at! I know others will be here soon with more/better information then I gave .. Have a great day guys!

Oh, and we are in MI too!
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86 (2u Lantus) +1 106- Advice Needed

Please get the +2 like you planned. Are you going to be home to monitor today?

You really didn't have the data yet to shoot this low so it's going to be important to keep a close eye on Felix's numbers. You don't know if Felix's numbers dropped lower last night and you're starting to see the beginnings of a bounce.

For the future, please get at least a before bed test every night. Also, if you get a lower than usual pre-shot number, either post so we can lend you a hand or follow the directions in this post on handling low pre-shot numbers.

I would go back to the 2.0u tonight unless numbers dictate otherwise (i.e., Felix earns a decrease).
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86 +1 106 +2 109- Advice Needed

+2 109 small meal fed; will do on the +15 each night

Explain a bounce to me...
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86 (2u Lantus) +1 106- Advice Needed

No advice from me but just want to welcome you to LL and say what nice numbers these are for Felix this morning ;-)
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86 (2u Lantus) +1 106- Advice Needed

+2 109; How often should I test this morning?
We use the lantus vial and our vet says its only good for 28 days. We've only used 1/2 the vial and wants us to buy a new one next week. What should we do?????

How do I bump my condo up?

thanks from the newbie! :>O
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86 (2u Lantus) +1 106- Advice Needed

I haven't posted in your condo before, welcome to LL! (Can we call you Jenner?)

I would get a +3. If you could put your new test results in your header (edit the first post subject line) as you get them and bump your condo, that will help us keep an eye on Felix and help you quickly if needed. To bump your condo, just add a new reply...whenever you or anyone else posts, it moves your condo up to the top.

Many people use lantus vials for at least 2 months, and some use them much longer. I would keep using the vial until it starts losing potency, or you see floaties or it gets cloudy. You have been storing it in the fridge, right? Not rolling it?
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86 (2u Lantus) +1 106- Advice Needed

i'm new too - but i know everytime anyone posts here it will bump up your post. So during the day you can edit the subject on your original post to add a recent number, then add a post at the bottom to bump it up. just editing the original post subject line doesn't bump it.
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86 (2u Lantus) +1 106, +2 109, +3.5 111

Good to hear from everyone this morning, esp. another newbie :>) and yes, you can call me Jenner-all my friends do ;<)

Felix's numbers just have thrown me for a loop this morning. We've never shot in the blues & greens since his first shot 2.11.2011. and it sounds like I didn't do him justice by panicing and reducing his dose from 2u to 1.5u this morning. What is the slow rise in #'s telling me this morning? he's eating fine, just annoyed by all the extra picks this a.m.

Are you sure about using Lantus longer than 28 days? I don't like the expense of wasting 1/2 a bottle, but why didn't our vet tell me we could use it longer?
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86, +3.5 111

Just spoke with the vet...she didn't rec. we go back to the 2u dose tonight. Or for tomorrow's dose until his numbers come back up over 200. She said their normal response would have been to cut his dose down to 1u at AMPS.

Keep in mind, we're also the first sugar baby that has ever home-tested while on Insulin. We're cutting edge up here in the U.P. Soooo....getting mixed info from the vet and from the board tends to get confusing.....see what I mean :<)
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86 (2u Lantus) +1 106, +2 109, +3.5 111

What a beautiful surf Felix has going! Those numbers are the same, when you factor in meter variance (20%). This is what Lantus is famous for, a flat curve. I would continue to get a test every 2 hours at least, just to make sure he isn't going to drop later.

I don't blame you for reducing, you did fine! There are no mistakes, only opportunities to collect data! Most people would have skipped the shot the first time they saw a green number, and we would have encouraged you to stall for a while if you had posted before you shot, because you have not shot this low before. That's why you've been advised to monitor closely....you had no data to show how he will react.

The manufacturer only tested up to 28 days when they tested to see how long the insulin maintains it's potency. Therefore, they will only guarantee that it will remain potent for that length of time. The vet is going by what the manufacturer says. Many, many people here use it long past that time, particularly the vials. A lot of people (including me) use the SoloStar pens, as it is more economical in the long run...they come in a box of 5 x 3 ml pens. Each pen contains more than enough insulin for at least a month and you will end up throwing out less insulin. I would suggest that you ask for a script for pens next time....but yes, I'm sure you can continue to use the vial past 28 days. Have you read the storage and handling sticky? viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151#p873
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86, +3.5 111

Thanks Laurie. Testing every 2 hours is a good idea. I don't fully understand the conseq. of delaying a shot 15 min or 1/2 hour or even an hour. I need to re-read the insulin storage shed stickie.

I'm confused on how to dose him tonight after our vet telling me to stay with 1.5u today and tomorrow. The clinic doesn't follow a tight regiment schedule and feels uncomfortable giving out info contrary to their normal procedures....

oops...yup...we keep our vial in the fridge with no rolling. We actually had to tell our vet that Lantus should not be mixed like other insulins.
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86, +3.5 111

Jenner & Felix said:
Just spoke with the vet...she didn't rec. we go back to the 2u dose tonight. Or for tomorrow's dose until his numbers come back up over 200. She said their normal response would have been to cut his dose down to 1u at AMPS.

Keep in mind, we're also the first sugar baby that has ever home-tested while on Insulin. We're cutting edge up here in the U.P. Soooo....getting mixed info from the vet and from the board tends to get confusing.....see what I mean :<)
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm surprised that your vet would recommend that you shoot any amount of insulin at 86, most vets would have said to skip the shot and not shoot any insulin until he was over 150-200. Vets tend to be much more conservative than what we recommend here, because they worry about liability and they are not used to clients who hometest and know how to manage low numbers. They are much more comfortable with higher numbers because it's safer if you are not monitoring closely...I can't blame them for that, I agree. However, we monitor and know how to manage low numbers, so it's safe to shoot lower numbers once you have the data you need to do it safely. You are starting to gather that data today!
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86, +3.5 111

Apparently skipping the shot at all is not a normal response from our vet if in the green. They would have rec. feeding, waiting 1-2 hours, then giving 1/2 dose
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86, +3.5 111

When you have time, I would read over the sticky on being data ready http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/view ... t=147#p849 and I would bookmark and print out Libby's post on dealing with low preshots here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/view ... ot#p353269

In a situation like this morning, we would suggest stalling without feeding and retesting in 15-30 minutes. The reason for not feeding is that you want to see if Felix is rising naturally...if you feed and he rises, then you won't know if it is from the food or not. So if you stall, please don't feed unless he is below 50. There's a good explanation in Libby's post.

When you shoot late, it's like a dose decrease. When you shoot early, it's like a dose increase. Usually when you stall for a significant length of time, you won't want to decrease the dose also, because it is already like a decrease.

There are circumstances when you want to skip shots....I wouldn't say that you never want to skip.
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86, +5.5 144

Hi Laurie..had to jump in the shower and finally grab a meal myself....kind of put that off with this mornings numbers & Lantus 101 schooling with the board :) I know I'm treating this morning with a bit more drama than is necessary. We've gotten used to a regular schedule in the yellows, so blues and greens were little scary this morning.

+5.5 144

plan to test @ +8.5

Thank you again for your input today-its really helped alot. It still feels like a lot to understand, and I'll probably ask the same questions twice until I feel comfortable, so bear with me!
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86, +5.5 144

I don't think you treated this morning with drama at all, I think you were very calm and did a great job! It is a little scary the first time you see the blues and greens! He's heading up gradually, I suspect that he will be fairly high by PMPS. I would do as Sienne suggested and go back to 2.0u...but there's time to talk about it before then. You need to be comfortable with what you're shooting. What is your schedule like, are you usually home to monitor?

A +8.5 is fine, or +9 if you want to make it easier to put on your SS. When you get a chance, can you put your tests on your SS?

Please feel free to ask any questions you have, as many times as you need to. It is a lot to learn, we have all been there!

I'm on my way out, I'll peek in a little later. You're doing great!
 
Re: 3/3 Felix AMPS 86, +8.5 233

Thank you for the moral support!

I've been fighting with my internet connection all day and my google page is downloading too slow (I have a data pack on my cell for internet service-no cable or broadband where I live). So yes, when google starts agreeing with me, I'll add todays numbers.

So you think i should go back to 2u at Felix's 7:45 p.m. dose? Not the 1.5 rec. by our vet?

and why, I'm asking again, did you expect his numbers to be up again? Because of his history? or because of his shed?

I work from home, hence the easier monitoring, but tomorrow will be gone from 10-Noon. Will that affect my a.m. dose?

Felix's weight, BTW, is 12.25 and has held steady for about a month. He was diagnosed FD due to long-term pred. use and only flucuated in weight .5-.75 lb either way through out this whole experience (I only wish I had that problem. My weight seems to increase the more involved I get with our new routine)! :>)
 
My thinking here is that you can choose either 1.5 or 2.0u. BUT, you've got to stick with whichever dose you choose. Personally, I would go with the 2.0u but I don't want you to be in conflict with your vet. You can always bring the dose up if Felix's numbers don't look so good. You have to do what you're comfortable with.
 
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