3/29/15 Oz - 49 @+2, Can I reduce again? (Please!)

[Ian & Oz]

Hi,
Not sure whats happening, but since the 26th, Oz has started rocketing towards 40 every chance he gets. Food doesn't really slow him down, even Fancy Feast gravy food. It's been about 3 days of barely any sleep, giving him food to try & keep him from dropping too fast. He started this morning (3/27/15) at 87 for the AM pre-shot & then 67 for tonights PM pre-shot number. After eating most of his food he was back at 49 at +2. Am I able to reduce now? At this rate, it seems he'll be back at this below 50 number in no time. Also, I know I need to re-read some stickies, but what happens if you have a pre-shot number below 50?

Ian

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Typically the depot from a higher dose lasts 4-6 cycles, but if you are having a hard time keeping him up after 3, then try reducing him to 2.25. You can always increase him back up if he doesn't hold the reduction. Sometimes when a cat's spreadsheet starts turning all green, they come down the scale a little faster. How is Oz eating today?

From the Shooting and Handling Low Number's Sticky, it says:

The short answer is that most kitties can be shot at +12, almost regardless of the number, once you are data ready to do so. The exception is that shooting 30s or 40s is not recommended for most cats, so if the cat is less than 50 then usually the best option is to wait until they are above 50 to shoot. While you’re waiting, the shed is draining, so you want to get the insulin in as soon as it makes sense to shoot.
Some general rules when stalling (ECID):

** 50s or higher – don’t feed. The number will bump up on its own soon due to the insulin wearing off.
** 40s or lower – you have a couple of choices.

• When 40’s occur at the end of the cycle, it can be beneficial to withhold food and test in 15-20 minutes to determine if kitty is on the rise or hasn’t reached nadir yet.
• If they are hanging in the 40s for a while, or if they are still dropping, it is ok to feed a tsp or two of LC and retest. This is very tricky. You want to avoid feeding too much while you’re waiting for them to go over 50, because you don’t want to artificially inflate the number with food.
• --- Example: if kitty is 43 and you feed a whole meal, or feed some HC, and the number bumps up to 52, is that the cat’s natural end-of-cycle rise, or is it food spike? What if it is food spike? Then if you shoot the 52, when the food wears off he might drop back to the 40’s (and when insulin kicks in a couple of hours later, you might have a problem). If the 52 is the cat’s natural rise, then he will probably keep rising for the next few hours until insulin kicks in. If you can’t tell whether the number is food spike or natural rise, it’s safest to wait. Your data will help you here. Study the spreadsheet. How much food spike does the cat usually get? How many hours after the shot does the insulin’s onset usually occur in this cat? At what number is the cat likely to be when onset occurs? If the cat does drop, how easy/hard is it to regain control of the numbers? How carb sensitive is he?

** Test often (every 15-20 minutes, or at most every 30 minutes). You want to catch the rise the minute it starts. With most of our cats, once they start to rise they will really zoom. You want to get the insulin in as soon as possible, because it will be another 2-3 hours before the insulin kicks in and you don’t want to let the cycle get too far ahead of you.

Perhaps the most important guideline in shooting low is that any time you shoot your lowest ever number, you should get a +1 and +2 to give you an idea of how the cycle will go. If the +1 is not higher than PS, or if +2 is much lower than PS, that means “pay attention” over the next few hours. Those tests will also help you become even more data ready for the next time you are presented with a low preshot reading.

 

[Ian & Oz]

Hi Wendy,
Thank you for replying. I think I'll try the 2.25 dose tomorrow morning. I see what you mean about the depot, I didn't know it would last that long. At the moment, it's been pretty constant having to feed him something to try & bring him up. thank you for the 50 or below info too, I do wonder though if he was at 50 or below, will he begin to rise? Lately he hasn't been rising, only going down. Oh, & he's been eating more today, very thankful for that.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

I agree with everything Wendy said. While typically you need to wait about four to six cycles to see what a newly reduced dose can do, there are times when it's good to take a dose reduction before four cycles are up. If you are working hard, by your own definition, to keep Oz over 50, then I would take another reduction this soon.

Sometimes when the kitty's spreadsheet goes all green there isn't hardly anything you can do to keep them from earning reductions. It's a good thing! sometimes kitties going down the dosing scale might have to have doses skipped or larger reductions because their pancreas has sputtered back to life and is now putting out enough insulin that the dose is really too high.

in your case with oz, I would go ahead and reduce his dose to 2.25u and see how he does with it.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Another options, especially if you are exhausted, is to skip a shot and allow the depot to drain a bit

 

[Ian & Oz]

Thank you Julie & Sienne,
At around 7 AM, I tested Oz & he was at 154, so he'd gone up, maybe the depot emptied earlier than normal? At the AM preshot time (9:30) he was at 162, so I stayed with the 2.5 dose for now to see where he goes. I had recently given him a late shot, about 2 hours late & have been working him back to his regular time, which was back on track this morning. Is it possible that giving his shots at a different time, affects him differently?

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

hard to say - that might be one of those ECID (every cat is different) things. I wouldn't assume it would make a difference, but you never know.

In any case, I just looked at his ss and see he's back in green already. It's great to see his ss turn green like this.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I had recently given him a late shot, about 2 hours late & have been working him back to his regular time, which was back on track this morning. Is it possible that giving his shots at a different time, affects him differently?

Some cats are more sensitive than others to changes in schedules. I find Neko's OK with a half hour difference in shot times, but I've seen some whose cats are affected by anything more than 15 minute changes. It's good you are recording the shot time differences on the SS.