3/27-28 Eddie PMPS +6/41, +6.3/35, +15/96 still going

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Jen&Eddie

Jen&Eddie

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Yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=116139

GREEN NADIRS LAST NIGHT!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Today:
AMPS = 380 (+12.5) (2.8u)
+2.5 = 341
+6 = 249
+9.5 = 264
PMPS = 302 (+11.5) (2.8u)
+2 = 296
+3 = 247
+4 = 136
+5 = 83
+5.5 = 51
+6 = 41
+6.3 = 35
+6.6 = 39
+7 = 61
+7.5 = 55
+8 = 44/43
+8.3 = 45
+8.6 = 49
+9 = 58
+9.5 = 60
+10 = 65
+12 = 44
+14 = 81
+15 = 96
+19 = 233

We finally had some green nadirs last night. I stopped testing and crashed at PM +8 (1:00 am) and Eddie was at 70. It's possible he went lower but I was so darn tired I couldn't stay up any longer. AMPS looks to be a pretty good bounce this morning. DH and I decided to start shooting a little earlier 5am/5pm (of course depending on where Eddie's at). That gives us a little bit more time to stall in the AM if and when needed and theoretically, lets me go to bed a little earlier.

Deb, thank you so much for your thoughtful and kind response to my comments about switching to Lantus in yesterday's condo. I think I may post in LL at some point and ask some questions about schedule, etc., to see if it would be possible for us to work with the TR protocol. We could always also try the SLGS approach but do it a little tighter so it's a little closer TR. I really like the idea of TR, and I can test all night if needed. It's just those pesky working hours that are potentially the problem. If we would switch over, we would definitely pop in to the PZI board and say hi and help. I guess it certainly wouldn't be a bad thing to be knowledgeable with two different types of insulin.

I think the studies suggest higher remission rates when the TR protocol is started within 6 months of diagnosis. I'm wondering what variables specifically affect this. I guess what I'm getting at is if we wait to finish the brand new vial of ProZinc we just started, we'll be roughly at the 6 month mark - does it behoove us to give the ProZinc more time to do its thing or are we "wasting" time?
 
Re: 3/27 Eddie AMPS 380, +6 = 249

+6 = 249

Hmmm. I wonder if we're going to have a high-flat bounce cycle here or a long duration cycle.
 
Re: 3/27 Eddie AMPS 380, +6 = 249

He is looking a little flat. Maybe because of those greens last night? Those sure are pretty though. :-D

There is no reason why you can't do an 'in-between' of TR and Relaxed. Not as tight as TR, due to lack of home time, but tighter than Relaxed, just because you can. Don't think that cats only go into remission if they are on the TR protocol with Lantus. They can go OTJ on all insulin using various protocols, it just depends on the cats. And don't think if Eddie's not OJT in 6 months it won't happen, that's not the case either. IMO with proper care, some will go OTJ sooner than later. But there have been some that have gone OTJ 2 yrs into it. It's always a possibility. There are so many variables that contribute, some we don't even know about.

I've seen some with absolutely perfect care NOT go OTJ and some whose caregivers are haphazard at best, go OTJ. There is only so much that WE have control over. Granted, OTJ is the ideal and what everyone hopes for, but having a cat that's well regulated, healthy and happy, on tiny insulin doses works too. OTJ is what everyone strives for, but it's not the 'be all, end all', ya know?

I just hate that you've lost a little forward motion, but I'm sure you'll get it back soon, you have done so well with him. It could be that a change in insulin will work for him. At least there are options, it's not like there is only 1 to use for cats.
 
Re: 3/27 Eddie AMPS 380, +6 = 249

nckitties3 said:
He is looking a little flat. Maybe because of those greens last night? Those sure are pretty though. :-D
Click to expand...

Yeah looks like a flat bounce to me. Bummer. Maybe he'll stay in the 200's for shot time so we can bring him down next cycle. We'll shoot in about an hour when I get home from work.

Thank you so much for your thoughts on TR and Relaxed and possibly switching, Deb. :-D I do think OTJ is a goal almost everyone has in mind, but even in the nearer term, I'd like to have a better handle on "regulating" Eddie. It's always so interesting to see kitties that go OTJ quickly (sometimes rather haphazardly), and those that tough it out, and work it for an extended period (a year or more), and then finally go OTJ. It's really rewarding to see those kitties go OTJ. :-D

I look at our pack and wonder why Eddie of all of them, got to be the "lucky" guy that got FD. Our older obese civilian has always been the one I've worried about -- not healthy, happy younger Eddie. Poor guy. He always handles my poking and prodding like a champ. He snuggles with me more these days than he used to. No question his clinical symptoms are vastly improved. By that measure, he's doing well. But, of course, I want to do everything in my power (knowing that there are a heck of a lot of things outside my control) to give Eddie the best chance of remission.
 
Re: 3/27 Eddie AMPS 380, +6 = 249, PMPS 302

I understand and Lucian and I are much closer than we ever were.

Although he literally fought 'tooth and nail' against testing for the 1st 6 weeks, he doesn't even flinch now, sometimes not even opening his eyes if he's sleeping. Just spending so much more time with him made us closer.
 
Re: 3/27 Eddie AMPS 380, +6 = 249, PMPS 302

+3 = 247

We may get some movement tonight! (anti-jinx/fingers crossed!). High flat cycles drive me a bit bonkers. Before our weekend away, Eddie had not had a high flat cycle for weeks - looks like we're back to it.

nckitties3 said:
Although he literally fought 'tooth and nail' against testing for the 1st 6 weeks, he doesn't even flinch now, sometimes not even opening his eyes if he's sleeping. Just spending so much more time with him made us closer.
Click to expand...

Luckily, Eddie's been easy since day one. :smile: I look at some of our other cats, and had it been any of the others, I don't think we'd be doing nearly as well with testing/shots/etc., so I guess it's "lucky" that it's Eddie and not one of the others. Eddie does the same thing when he's sleeping -- he barely wakes up when I poke. He never used to want to snuggle at bed time and would freak out if you tried to hold him. He snuggles in beside me now at night or in the crook of my arm. cat_pet_icon He's my favorite now, but don't tell the others that. :-D
 
Re: 3/27 Eddie AMPS 380, +6 = 249, PMPS 302, +5.5 = 51

Gah!

+5.5 = 51 (1 T. LC)
+6 = 41 (1 t. MC)
+6.3 = 35 (1 t. HC)
+6.6 = 39 (1 t. HC)
+7 = 61
+7.5 = 55 (1 T. LC)
+8 = 44/43 (1 t. MC)
+8.3 = 45 (1 t. HC - ran out of the last of my MC since BB ate half of it on the counter :-x )
+8.6 = 49 (1 t. HC)
+9 = 58
+9.5 = 60
+10 = 65

Been feeding small amounts of LC with each test since +4. Glad I decided to get a +5.5 rather than waiting an hour. Don't quite want to pull out the MC just yet. Edited - fed as indicated above.
 
Re: 3/27 Eddie PMPS 302, +5.5/51, +6/41, +6.3/35

Eeeek! :o My goodness Eddie! Ease up boy, that's a little too low.

That's funny. When Lucian was on Lantus, every time he had a flat cycle, the next one he'd be 'deep sea diving'. :lol: Just like Eddie did today.

Mel's Autumn always did the same thing, dropped to the bottom after a flat cycle. It's not uncommon apparently.

That 35 would concern me. I'd be giving a tiny bit of med carb if it was Lucian and I never do that unless he's under 40. His low carb works fine every 30 mins in small amounts. I think Lucian's lowest was 38, that I'm aware of, and I gave about a tsp of MC to hold him until he started back up. Over 40, I don't worry. Under 40 causes me concern, but not panic. 30 is my panic button and we haven't seen it yet.

Hang in there!

Edit - you did good at the 41 and lower. You know how he responds to the various carb levels. Lucian jumps on MC, to I haven't needed HC yet.
 
Re: 3/27 Eddie PMPS 302, +5.5/51, +6/41, +6.3/35 +6.6/39

Thanks Debbie.

MC doesn't seem to bring Eddie up a ton, but since he kept going down after the MC, time to bust out the HC. I could strangle our foster Blueberry at the moment. I left Eddie's test treats out while I was working on food, so he stole the bag of treats and ran off with them and ripped a hole in the bag. Then, while I was doing something else, he slurped up half the bowl of MC I had left sitting on the counter after feeding.
 
Re: 3/27 Eddie PMPS 302, +5.5/51, +6/41, +6.3/35 +6.6/39

ROFL! Been there!

My girls love it when I have to use a tiny bit of MC, then they get the rest of it. Love that MC food! Lucian does too, but a tiny bit is all he needs and they get the rest of the can. :-D

I have 4 can's of HC I've had since the beginning. I bought 5, opened 1 when I was still a noob, cause I was scared! :lol: He didn't need it then! I think he might have hit 50. :lol: Wasn't long after when I found out that MC works 99% of the time for him. Funny too, the flaked Tuna and Egg by Friskee's works just like MC although it's only a 9 carb. Have no clue why, but that's how he responds to it.

Hopefully Eddie won't keep you up too late.
 
Re: 3/27 Eddie PMPS/302, +5.5/51, +6/41, +6.3/35, +6.6/39, +

+7 = 61

Looks like the HC is doing what it's supposed to do. Will get a couple more non-food influenced tests in before calling it.

This is our second time with the HC. The other time was when I got a 30 when I came home from work for lunch. That one made me sweat. We've used MC a few times when Eddie's in the 50's a little early or dropping too fast too early in the cycle, or dipping just below 50's. I'm thinking I may need to find a slightly higher MC. I'm using Cats in the Kitchen Double Dip which is 10% right now.

All the civilians also get food when Eddie gets food, more so to keep them out of my hair when I'm trying to deal with him than anything else. They love it when Eddie's diving! Snacks every 20 minutes!

So it occurred to me in the past that every time we've had a dip below 50, and the epic cycle that lasted 18 hours were when I shot rather than DH! Same thing tonight. Weird?! DH doesn't make any dosing decisions or maintain Eddie's SS, but he is wonderful about helping with testing and shooting. After the first couple times, I watched how he was drawing up the doses to make sure we're doing it the same way, and we are. No idea what that's about.
 
Re: 3/27 Eddie PMPS/302, +6/41, +6.3/35, +6.6/39, +7/61, +8.

Had to test Lucian, so thought I'd check on Eddie, too.

That +7 was the HC talking. You can see that he dropped back down and came up normally after that.

Lucian's MC is between 14-16 carb. His HC is 20+, usually like 24 carb. I figure if I NEED HC, I want it as high as I could get, so that's what I bought.

'See' ya later in the day.
 
Good morning ~O)

I decided not to start a new condo yet since we're still going here.

Eddie apparently dipped after I finally called it at PM +10 assuming he'd stay up. DH tested at +12 and got a 44. Poor guy was freaking out! He wasn't fully aware of the marathon last night. No point in stalling, since Eddie was obviously no where near ready to shoot, so everyone got normal breakfast that was not split up. That meal will often bump up Eddie 100 points, but it didn't do a whole lot this AM. Neither of us got a +13, both of us assuming that the other was going to test.

At +15, Eddie's still under 100, but in safe numbers, finally.

There is no middle ground for Eddie. He likes to do things in dramatic style I guess. On Thursday night (the PM cycle the night before) I shot the same dose on a pre-shot that was just 30 points higher. I don't think we've ever crashed him off a pre-shot in the 300's. Every other time he has dived, it's been from pre-shots in the high 100's or low 200's.

I've dealt with low numbers before, but I had a heck of a time getting him up last night. A bounce would actually be welcome at this point.

So, going forward, a few questions:

How long does HC typically last? I was up to see him come back down after going up from HC after +7, but then he apparently dipped again later after +10. It was about an hour and 20 minutes after his last food, so I assumed he was rising on his own after that.

Sheesh, this cycle looks like I tripled his dose or something...but nope. I was planning on shaving my scale for pre-shots in the 300-350 range down from 2.8u to 2.6u. But since this cycle looks to be more than just a short dip below 50, should I be reducing more than that?! Last time we went down the scale, I attempted to just make tweaks and shaves to the scale, but ended up resorting to dropping the whole scale down. Thankfully, we're going into the weekend, so I can monitor closely but I do need to sleep at some point.

Today, Eddie's still below 100 at PM +15, and he's really not rising real fast. I will be stopping home around noon (+19) to check on everyone. Chances are, he'll be shootable by that point. I had decided that we were going to chase his numbers with the long cycles we were having, but that might be pushing it. Thoughts on that?

Eddie is taking this all in stride of course, despite the million pokes. When we went to bed, he snuggled up with me. This morning, he was lounging around doing stretches, asking for belly rubs.
 
Oh yeah! You'd never by looking at them that they kept you up all night. :lol:

Although not one to give dose advice, I will say that 35 calls a reduction. No matter what insulin you use or what protocol you're following, that's got 'reduction' written all over it! You know your scale, so you know how much and where to reduce. He might need it shaved off on all the numbers. I know you just did that before you went away but things weren't the same when you got back. Maybe it's time to do it again? Those nights are hard on ya! :o Been there - done that! :-D

With going as low as he did and stretching out that cycle like he has, he's just not wanting as much juice. ;-)
 
+19 = 233

Eddie was lolling in a sunbeam when I got home. After his poke, he stayed sitting in my lap purring and wanting pets. Wish I could have stayed and snuggled him. cat_pet_icon

That 233 is not too bad considering! I briefly considered, and then decided not to shoot, even though this is a shootable number.

I think for now, I'm going to try shaving the dose for that range, despite how dramatic Eddie's cycle was. If he dips again, I may re-think that position and bring down the whole scale a bit.

Deb do you mind me asking what you use for MC? I've decided I've got to up the carb content a little in the MC I'm using. The one I'm using now is 10%. Blueberry polished off the second half of the can I was using last night, and that's the last one I had on hand. The Weruva B.F.F. line has some pouches that are in the 15% range (grain/gluten free, etc), but won't be able to get to our usual pet food outlet store to pick any up till Saturday. I have to get more strips tonight, so if there's something that Wal-Mart carries that I can have on hand just to be cautious tonight, that's what I'm looking for.
 
If you check Dr Lisa's list, there are many, but right now I have Friskee's Tuna and Egg (which is around 9 but effects him like 14) and Friskee's meaty bits - beef and gravy, which I think is about 16. I still have Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast for the HC and it's over 20. I feed Friskee's all the time, it's the only 1 I can afford. Have had the FF for over a year. But there are a lot more MC than LC to choose from.

There is a link here somewhere for the food lists. I had it saved but lost my favorites a while back and never went looking for it again. Sorry.

Here's one list:
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

Here's Dr Lisa's:
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

The Friskee's Savory Shreds are all between 13 and 15, if that helps. The Meaty Bits are between 17 and 19! I thought it was less, that's what I have, Beef Meaty Bits. That goes in the HC bag now. ohmygod_smile My memory sux. :o
 
Thanks hon! I did skim Dr. Pierson's list after I asked the question and it looks like there a bunch of FF options in that 13-15% range. There's so darn many "gravy" types, I'm no longer certain of the carb count of the HC I am feeding. I'm pretty sure it's high since it's "gravy lovers," but wow, who knew there could so many flavor options for kitties who love gravy. :YMSIGH:
 
Yeah, I checked the Friskee's and the ones I'm feeding are under 9, which is fine, but I didn't remember correctly on the Beef and gravy. ohmygod_smile

Walmart has several different brands besides FF too. Like I said, Friskee's is affordable for me.
 
3/28 PMPS = 300 (2.6u)
+2 = 286

Not a bad PMPS considering no insulin for 24 hours. It's just two points different from PMPS last night, so we'll try out the shaved 2.6u tonight. Fingers crossed that Eddie takes it easy tonight!

Hit Wal-Mart after PMPS tonight and picked up a bunch of FF Chicken, some FF Medleys that are around 15% for MC, and a ton of strips. Eddie's snuggling on my lap and we're watching Sopranos re-runs. This mama bean is wiped out. Might need a nap on the couch with Eddie. DH and I joke that when we're having snuggle times with kitties they are "casting sleep spells." Always seems easier to dose off into a nap when you're surrounded by purry kitties. :-D
 
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