3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS+66,64- +2 -49!

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bettyandhank

bettyandhank

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viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10196 yesterday


AMPS- 81 Exact same as yesterday! just realized when we came to type it in. Funny.
(per the Germans, a point over 'normal')


Shot same as yesterday...we THINK +/- .01. Impossible to know for sure or have certain consistency of dose...BUT hope he is getting some token minute amount or if it isn't perfectly consistent (which it isn't) it won't skew anything or have negative impact.

10 minutes late due to phone calls that wouldn't end. Will tweak tonight.

I mentioned again last night, but we have been using a spare meter for a few days, same make/model as our other.
so hopefully the numbers are reliable...just putting it out there in case.


great day everyone!

B&H
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81

Hey there CD-

He gave us the EXACT same number to start the day again....crazy, huh?

So, another question (...number 12,562!)

I was looking at MJ/Donovan's chart who stayed forever on low doses...much longer than 14 cycles....dropping amounts by drips and drops and fractions of fractions. (i COULD NEVER discern these or have them be verifiable if I tried). At one point even going back up a drip/drop. They stepped down in these micro-increments before actually doing the trail from what i could tell, there were many, many long stretches of 'normal' before they took the leap.
What is the reasoning behind that method of weening (sp?)

Like I said, at this point, I'm almost as nervous thinking about taking him OFF the stuff as I was getting him ON!
I'm also going to hunt some more for our other meter to see if I can't get him a test on it just to compare. That one ran lower than the vets (opposite of normal). with them being same make/model - only different color, I can't imagine much discrepancy. I have opened new strips recently also.


thanks for visiting!! we're so glad to see you as always!

Hope you're day is great so far..

B&H


Anyway, my baby is doing great again today. GO HANKIE!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81

Short answer is, I'm chicken.

The first time he "accidentally" got no insulin for a few cycles, even though it was a microdose before that, his numbers crept up almost immediately, so that indicated to me that he was not ready and needed more healing time. I'd rather give him that One Precious Drop for an extended period than bounce back to those Ugly Colors again. Been there, don't wanna go back. He was not in good shape when he was diagnosed, and stayed in blacks and reds for months before I finally switched to Levemir. I wanted whatever damage had occurred to fully heal, or heal as well as a sugar cat can.
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81

Hi Betty,
Yes those micro-doses are tough to measure. But it is a happy 'tough' because it means so many good things for your kitty.

Anyway, we try to be as consistent as possible using various methods. Some people like me, used magnifying lens and extra bright lighting, some people just have good eyes and can eyeball it. I saw someone who mentioned he uses a scale and weighs the syringe every time for consistency (whoa!) and Vicki/Gandalf (on the Levemir forum) uses a micrometer to measure.

I think if you merely try your best to come close to the same amount every shot, then that should be fine. Bright lighting really helps.

And I agree with you about keeping Hank on the micro-dose as long as you can, it can help him be more successful when he finally stops insulin altogether.
BUT if he sends you a clear signal that is it time to stop with a low number (below 50), then that will be when you put away the syringe.
If he stays above that, then timing is the factor of when to quit. You can support him for at least a week or 10 days (of normal numbers) or you can go longer. It is your choice.

Stay with your current meter so you won't be comparing apples to oranges. Going back and forth between meters will be confusing.
If you like the other meter better, you can use it again... but make a note of the switch on your SS and STAY with that one.

Hope this helps. :-D
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS +66, +11:50- 64 yikes

I was waiting for you. I see from your spreadsheet that you were brave and shot that 64 tonight. Good for you!
I know it is a little weird... this has come on so quickly and you've hardly had a chance to get used to shooting low.

Hank is doing great. If you can get a before bed test it would add more data to see how he's responding to this dose.
Leave food out overnight too. Every cycle is getting closer and closer to the finish line for you.

Carry on!
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS +66, +11:50- 64 yikes

Ok, so he made me all nervous again. Even at this teeninsy dose, he yet again throws me his lowest PS ever. Teach me to get comfortable for 5 minutes.
Ran up here to read back my 'new rules' (thank you CD!) from just couple days ago which I'd asked for in preparation.
So what does he do on re-test? Goes LOWER. It's virtually the same number, but it in fact is going down, not up.
AND it's all right on the cusp of what was discussed as being safe.

I should have said you could have shot that 69 if you had tested again and determined it was a steady BG, and no longer dropping. Sorry 'bout that.

If Hank's preshot is low:

Stall and test again to see if number is dropping. If steady or beginning to rise, it usually is safe to shoot a number like 65 and above since you are shooting a micro-dose.
Shoot a token dose, in Hank's case it would have been 0.1 unit.
Skip the shot.
Click to expand...

If he is too low to shoot... below 65 or so... stall and see if he goes up. This isn't far from what you just did, but we want to make sure he isn't still dropping.
Of course if he is 50 or below at any time. --- NO SHOT.
Click to expand...

So we waited @ 20 min, retested and it's gone down, albeit 2 pts, but down and into the no-man's land between the 'safe' number and the under no circumstances 'shoot' number.

I bit the bullet and shot. He has been doing so very well. This big 19 lb boy is going places on this teenie tiny spec...and i don't want to jeopardize that healing or continuity.

Worse, for this time I've wondered am i really getting any in him on these micro-doses,.. the other night wasn't sure i hadn't shot dry/placebo. Tonight I may have skewed on the fat side inadvertently. it just sort of felt that way going in. He had a treat at each test and i fed him just before shooting.

We ran slightly off abut 10-15 minutes yesterday and 10 mintues this morning, so even with hedging we weren't late. just didn't get to catch back up the 15 minutes we'd planned. Tomorrow instead.

Hankie's drama for friday.
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS +66, +11:50- 64 yikes

Oh Hey- our posts crossed.

Can you believe him...this was unexpected. he threw me for a loop. it was going down AND 1 pt under what you said was ok.
On top, I may have shot a bit on the high side.

But CD, when I was practicing the other day, it really is just miniscule. I was pretty much touching the top of the 0 line, so i think he'll be ok. i just hope it wasn't too much. (crazy huh?)
i wished it were day time so we don't have to stay up late...plus I already poked him like 5 times trying to do those 2 tests.
We can probably do a +1 or 1:15....but already sleepy so won't be up too much longer.
We've made it all this way without any borderline hypo's, and panic feedings, and i want to keep it like that.

Can you believe him? So you think this is a good thing, huh?? i think you would have said to go for it,..that was my guess, so that's what i did.
A bit nervously, but done! Still scary.

thanks for staying with us!
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS +66, +11:50- 64 yikes

HELP- MY COMPUTER COMPLETELY FROZE UP JUST AS i PRESSED 'SEND' ... would not move, so I refreshed my browser a couple times and for 5 minutes was stuck. When it finally loaded back, the same post had come through like 6 times... HOW DO I DELETE the duplicates Below?? ( i edited this text, or would have been 7!) aargh


Sorry folks..din't mean to clog the airwaves.

too much drama for us tonight.
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS +66, +11:50- 64 yikes

I'm confused. What is the +11.5? How is that after your PMPS? Did you mean +1.5?
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS +66, +11:50- 64 yikes

Hi, no, I was feklempt when i wrote that + not enough room.

I shot him at 10:25 am this morning.
at 9:57 tonight I did his BG intending it to be PMPS- It was @ +11.5 from this morning's shot. We were planning to catch up 10-15 minutes tonight, so would have fed him shot right in there.

But we he threw me another low number, i decided to wait and re-test, just under 20 min. later- so +11:50 from AM shot- but still PMPS-

THEN we shot. So we weren't early, but we weren't late either.

I guess i should have said +11:30- 66, then PMPS- 64 they were both intended to BE the PMPS, just had 2 tonight due to unforeseen circumstances.

i shot though Sienne...makes me nervous. Are they going to just get lower and lower? i was only authorized to 65. THEN WHAT?


BTW, how can i delete these other duplicate messages?...my comp. went haywire and snet/sent/sent the same message. Any idea?
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS +66, +11:50- 64 yikes

Betty maybe you could just edit the extra posts so they are blank and maybe they'll be smaller looking? I think a moderator has to delete them for you later.
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS +66, 64 yikes

Lol!!

First, I'm still not sure I understand the time sequence but, whatever.

The difference between a 66 and a 64 is well, nonexistent. They are virtually the same number. There is about a 10 - 20% variance in the numbers that's due to measurement error that's inherent in the meters. And in reality, do you think Hank really notices the difference between a BG of 64 vs. 66? It is highly unlikely that Hank is going to have a big swing in numbers due to the amount of insulin you're shooting as well as due to where the numbers are. You get the big drops when numbers are higher. There aren't the big ups and downs when you're already surfing in the greens. Also, Lantus has a characteristic flat curve. If I had to make a bet, I'd wager in favor of your getting one of those flat curves.
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS +66, 64 yikes

I know, it is the same number. but do you think they are just going to get lower and lower overall?....not tonight per se'..
but tomorrow, the next day. How many more 'this is the lowest pre-shot number I've ever had' amd I going to get and have to decide about.

If 50 is NO-SHOOT territory, and above 65 probably safe, as long as it's ON THE WAY UP (mine was not) then what about those other 15 pts in between?
If I get those PS, do I shoot?

i feel like this is such a neglible amount of jusice it should be fine, but on the other hand...look at his numbers on it. Clearly it does affect him and have impact.

I just thought for the moment, those anxious moments of uncertainty were on breather...but that's what i get for thinking.

So sleepy now.....

I am going to grab a test .... I do not suspect it will be much different, takes awhile for this drop to do much. The other night he was actually higher 2 hrs in..
Then off to bed.

if we get any funny business we'll check back for advice. otherwise. see ya'll manana.

B&H
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS+66, 64- +14- 49! ADVICE!

We are on a micro-dose. But I got a really low PS tonight and shot it after stalling-retesting. did a before bed check at +2.05 and he's at 49.

We have never been here before that I know of.

Sienne JUST said she expected a flat curve as did I.

We have never had to do the HC/MC thing. Is now the time?

hank has been running down this ladder for days now.

It is possible i shot a ever so slighlty higher dose..like maybe a fat .01 it was not a .25...

Or do I just get him to eat regular LC.

Can i feel safe going to bed? We are so zonked..i ONY stayed up to catch this test thinking an hour wasn't long enugh after our shot. But we are exhausted.

this is nerve wracking


anybody??? recommendations?
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS+66, 64- +14- 49! ADVICE!

Ok, feed some regular food or medium carbs if you want since you want to go to bed.
And tomorrow no shot. I think tomorrow will be the first day of your OTJ trial. Ok?

Hank doesn't need to go any lower tonight so you can give him a little gravy on the regular food.
He has proven that he probably doesn't need any insulin and his pancreas is ready to go it alone.

This was the signal to start the OTJ trial.
Test Hank at his normal times tomorrow but no shots. Ok?

YEAH!!!!!! :RAHCAT
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS+66,64- +2 -49! ADVICE!

OMG, you are there!

I don't know if i can have that whole conversation tongiht. i jsut want to worry about what to do w/ him right now and then figure that out tomroow,

i may still want to keeop him here for this week at least. I mean it is 1 point below.

I jsut need to be sure he gets only a drop. i may have shot slighlty more than that tonight.

Is he safe if we go to bed.

he looks fine...he was asleep up here unitl I woke him to test.
he was going down ever so slightly, basically same number, at his PMshot. but it was also virtually what it had been 5 hours earlier. The sense was he was just surfing and things were flat. he's on just a token dose, but obviously it does something to him

BUT, if he is still going down, that a whole other story

Do I worry yet?


When are you supposed to feed HC? at 40 and below?



What should we be doing right now?


Is he cool if we feed and go to bed.

Heavens!
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS+66,64- +2 -49! ADVICE!

He will be fine since his dose is so small. But I'd leave some yummy food for him. Usually kitties get hungry when they go low, if he's asleep, I'd wake him and offer the food. And leave some for overnight.

Since it is only +2, he might go a little lower and that is why I still think this is the beginning of your OTJ trial. He is a newly diagnosed kitty and going below 50 signals a dose decrease. There is no where to go except OTJ for Hank!

You can ask others tomorrow if you should shoot again, but I would think this is it for his insulin. He doesn't seem to need it.

I won't be around until Sunday night due to some commitments... but I'm sure others can help you out.
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS+66,64- +2 -49! ADVICE!

CD- yu may be typing...I'm going to run down and give him some food.

I feel trepidaceous about yanking him tomorrow. It's not even been 3 days here. And I realy, really, really, want it to stick. I may want to try a drop for a few more days...

We were a tad late tonight, so I will make sure to come back in the morning to check with you about it in case you are not here when i come back in a minute.

it's freaking me out to think about doing this so abruptly.... I may need a few more days to be sure. Of course i will see what the mubers say as well and factor that. i only want whats best for him.

I can still be like (who was that) that went to a drop, then a drip, then a<.01... J/K.

but I am not certain I can go there yet. Maybe if I sleep on it I'll feel different. i amy need to dialogue some more first.

49 is JUST a point below 50, and it was for a nano second.

I need to know he's ready and not a fluke.

ya''ll got to 30 (WAY outside my comfort zone)

if he repeats this and a pattern appears..then it may help me feel more confident about the decision.

I dunno...its TOO MUCH right this second to decide.

- I jsut went to press end and saw your post.

and OMG you will be gone!! such cruscial times here

it is late at night and I cannot think on my toes.

I may look back at this one chart- name escaping me now..

and go to the drop for a day or 2 while i fugure it out.

i think I can make it skinnier.

i want you to have a life, and emjoy wherever you are going..but can you clone yourself for me just this weekend to sort through this!!!!

I never dreamed it would be like this... it's a whirlwinf roller coaster.

not enought time to take it in, sort it out, think it through


I will conjutate on everything you've said.

you are THE BEST
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS+66,64- +2 -49! ADVICE!

I have kids here this weekend, but I sure will do my best to check-in around your normal AMPS time.

It is very quick for you I know, but I have seen this happen before. Last year there was a kitty that was here only a couple of weeks ... her kitty went OTJ that fast. It was very convenient too because the owner was having a baby within that time! The 'grandmother' had to post here when the owner went into labor. It was very nice of the kitty to go OTJ right when the new baby came home.

If you think you can give the tiny drop instead of no shots, I understand. But do try to give the smallest amount possible since Hank 'earned' his decrease tonight. :-D
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS+66,64- +2 -49! ADVICE!

Betty, keep in mind that just because you aren't ready, doesn't mean Hank isn't.

He's been leading the way pretty quickly.. he hasn't waited for you to be ready for anything along the way yet, WHY would he start now :).

It's called a trial.. give him a chance to show you what he can do.. if he's having a tough time.. you can always start up again to give him a hand.
 
Re: 3/26 Hank- AMPS -81, +7- 63, PMPS+66,64- +2 -49! ADVICE!

I'm not sure whether you got your "advice" request answered. If not, feed some low carb. It will bump up Hank's numbers.
 
I gave him some LC food w/ HC gravy- HE LOVED IT! He NEVER gets that, ever.

I am just too tuckered out to deal with this intelligently tonight. With it ebing so late, we probably will have very little time before our shot time in the morning to sort it out.
My insitinct right now is to try and shave the dose we are on, whatever you call it, and go to a drop. I thought the time I was giving a .25 it was a.o1.
I think I can do a skinnier veriosn of this, or a drop...as per CD we've earned a decrease. I caught him at 1 point below 50.
I know alot of these other guys have gone much lower..but for us this IS low.

I want to give him every opportunity to fully heal before going it alone, and the best chance possible for permanency.
I may feel differnely tomorrow, but that is where i am leaning.

let me see what his number is, or if this situation repeats itself and I amy feel differntly. That is my insticnt at this late moment.
(look at Donovan..)

thanks for all the support...I mean it!

ya'll are just the best


Look for me in the morning

betty & hank
 
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