3/26 eyes on dose advise PMPS 172;+2 169

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Rick & Mr. Grey

Member Since 2012
Yesterday 3/25 recap:
AMPS...311
+2......308
+3.5....272
+7.5....190
+11.....159
PMPS...144
+1.5....117
+2......104
+3......73
+4......73
Today 3/26
AMPS...154
+1......164
+3.25..128
+4......132
+5.5....131
+10.25.150
PMPS...172
+2......169

Holding dose @ 9.25u (reduction from 9.5u) for 9 cycles so far. I need advise for tomorrows dose based on data please see ss.
Mr. Grey and I thank you :-D
 
Hi Rick

I'd hold the dose just another cycle or two. He was just in green last night and the blues today could be a bounce. Yes...bounces can be in blue numbers.

If he doesn't come back into green within a couple cycles, Id take him back up to 9.5u.

Looking good!
 
You don't push a cat with suspected acromegaly into green numbers.
The dose you are on is quite fine with the numbers you posted.
There's really no way to say tonite what would be good for dosing in the morning.

The difference between a diabetic cat and an acro cat is a functional pancreas in the acro cat which means the acro cat has diabetes because of its condition. The dose for acro cats can fluctuate from day to day; it does not stay constant like the diabetic cat.

The typical diabetic cat has a pancreas functioning at less than 100% and the dosing is stable, like standing on firm ground.

The acromegalic cat has a perfect pancreas which is functioning at 100% but because of the excess growth hormone secretion, the dosing fluctuates, like sitting in a rowboat and the waves are rocking the boat. Depending on the waves, that's how you have to dose to keep your balance.

Aim for the numbers you have right now, the 100s. If nothing changes and you are surfing these blues, hold the dose. You do not need to push for greens.

Gayle
 
Rick

There are different philosophies on whether to let a suspected acro cat get into green.

Please take a look at Tommys SS whose caregiver did not do SRT but also did not follow the "keep them above 100" philosophy. He looks phenomenal. I can show you others who also allow their acro cats to get into green numbers.

As I said before, Id just hold the dose for now and see how he does.
 
Hi Rick, I too do not follow the "keep them above 100" philosophy. Neko is a bouncy acrocat and the more I can keep her in greens, the less she bounces. Her SS is not as pretty as Tommy's to look at. However, I know how she will react to HC when she is low and I only use HC or karo to get her up if she is low. If she is surfing in safe greens, I just let her do so without food and keep monitoring. Keep track of how Mr. Grey responds to HC, and it will help you. How long does HC last and how much does it increase his numbers?

Mr. Grey looks great in those blues tonight. To fully get rid of the effects of a bounce, it can take 6 cycles.
 
Than you all for such good advice it really helps us !!! I will hold dose @ 9.25. Getting an acro test is on my agenda and will happen soon..
 
regardless of whether or not you think Mr. Gray has acromegaly, he is looking great with these flat blue numbers! I would hold onto this dose for a bit because he might shift his flatness a little lower on his own as he settles in to this dose. Once cats get into this range and stay in it, it becomes less urgent to push them hard and can be beneficial to just slow down and wait to see what happens. Once he is nice and stable on this dose, you can evaluate whether the numbers are in the range you prefer, or if you would rather try to change them.

I didn't try to "push" my acro cat into green, but I didn't run away from it either. She was happiest and seemed to feel her best in blue and green so that's where I tried to keep her.
 
Many acros who have gone for SRT are bouncy, so comparing Neko to a suspected acro cat is not appropriate. As well, comparing Tommy as an example of pushing for green is not a good representation of handling the dosing for an acro cat.
Why? Because acros who have not gone for SRT do what they like, so you better be able to roll with the changes. If the growth hormone output stops suddenly, the acro can go off insulin immediately.

There was an acro cat who was on insulin for only a couple months, got up to one shot at 7u, and then never needed insulin again after then. Sudden. Stopped. No pushing.

Both of my acros were different as night and day.
Oliver would not budge from HC; when he dropped to 68 the first time, I fed him about 4 cans of HC. Do you know what that did to his numbers? They dropped lower. He stayed in lower numbers for most of the cycle.

Oliver also got sick in December 2011 with diarrhea and vomiting quite bad for days. Within 10 days, he went off insulin... his dose had been 21u BID at the time. He is still OTJ to this day.

After SRT, acromegalic cats are altered so it's not quite right to compare their journey to another acromegalic cat who has not gone for SRT. You don't push an acro; you keep an acro healthy and in safe numbers.
 
How about comparing with Libby's Jazzy. There was no SRT.

There are any number of other spreadsheets from acro kitties who didn't follow the "don't let your cat drop into green" approach. I'm at work and don't have the time right now to dig them out.
 
If the acro goes to green on his/her own, then fine, but pushing does not make sense. Why?

Can anyone guarantee that a cat who is getting 37u or 50u or 100u shots who is pushed to green will survive if the output stops suddenly? No, you cannot.

Think of a big sink of water. On one sink, the drain plug is leaking a bit, so you have to add more water to top it up to a level needed. The leak is constant, and not much changes over time. In some cases, the leak slows and stops, but in others, the leak is a bit larger, so here and there, you make adjustments to the amount of water you need to add to that sink. There is no /faucet/tap in this sink.

Think of another big sink of water. On this sink, there is a perfectly functional drain plug, but there is a dripping faucet in this sink, so the sink is filling faster with water, not leaking. You are scooping out water, 1 cup at a time, and that may keep the level good for a few days. Then the faucet suddenly turns on to flow more water, so you are scooping even faster, then switch to scooping 4 cups at a time. It doesn't matter how much or how fast you scoop out that water because it's not going to make a difference if the water's still running from the faucet.

The above two pictures are just to show that there are two very different situations - a normal diabetic cat and an acromegalic cat with diabetes. Both sinks have plugs; both types of cats need insulin.

Where you may have problems, I say may have, is a time when the faucet shuts off and you've got a shed of 100 units of Levemir under your cat's skin.

Better safe than sorry; that's all that's meant by 'try to stay above the 100 mark'.
Sure, you can push all you want for green numbers for an acro who has not had SRT, but just be ready because acros are not predictable when it comes to their dosing needs.
You may think it's fine to say push for green when your dose is under 10u, but when you are talking 37u like my Oliver or some acros in the 50s, 80s, and 100s per shot, you tend to shy away from those greens.


Gayle
 
Rick:

Libby copied her original post in one of Pepper's condos. If you want to look at some of the spreadsheets I was referring to and the discussion, the information is in this link. The point here isn't to confuse you or cause an argument. There are differing philosophies. Gayle represents one side of the discussion and her points are well taken. Libby's points are equally well thought out. IMHO, you should have access to all of the information and make decisions based on that information and what you know about Mr. Grey.
 
I see what your saying Sienne and I have been reviewing and extracting from all the advise I get from those who are watching Mr Grey along with the published information I've collected from the links and leeds found on this incredible forum. But we can't forget that I live with him and I know him better than anyone can from his ss and my notes and posts. Mr Grey has a healthy constitution and a big heart. I am very in touch with him and we are having breakthroughs due to what ever it is I'm doing and I don't think what I'm doing is 100 % by the book either. My ss notes are accurate and help document the actions taken that produce positive or negative results. I am not a doctor and I think most of us here are not doctors or vets, but one thing I've learned is that this forum is full of animal lovers who are putting their energies into taking care of their sugar cats with great common sense, proven protocols, scientific data, experiences gained, and love driven care. Moving forward thankful and optimistic his cure will come.
 
Rick, it looks like Mr. Grey had another good day by the numbers today. You bring up one of the most important points, and it's what we call the Whole Cat Report (or WCR). We refer to the 5 P's (playing, preening, purring, pooping, peeing). Do you notice any difference with Mr. Grey in these nice numbers? We can only see him through your eyes. If he is looking great, feeling great and happy, then that is what we want.

There isn't really a book for higher dose cats, so we all do what you are doing. Read what is published, review what works or not for other cats, and experiment until you find what works for your cat. What works for my bouncy cat (she bounced both before and after SRT) may not work with Mr. Grey. But whatever it is you are doing, keep it up, Mr. Grey's SS looks great!
 
WCR is similar to what I do for myself using homeopathic remedies (23 years ). I am a health care rebel of the new age I guess and just as I have cured myself over time of chronic allergies and other non-life threatening annoyances using a fusion of Naturopathics, homeopathy, diet, and fitness , working on a case of something like Diabetes but on my cat is just another of life's challenges and I'd care for myself similar to the way I am for MR. Grey if I came down with this disease. WHole body, whole foods, natural approach, observation, self awareness, compassion, attitude, all goes a long way !
Thanks for the encouragement and advise !!!
 
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