3/26 Eddie AMPS 237, +5.5 = 138, PMPS 333, +8 = 70

[Jen&Eddie]

Yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=116086

Today:
AMPS (+9) = 237 (2.4u)
+5.5 = 138
+10 = 267
PMPS (+11) = 333 (2.8u)
+2 = 325
+4 = 235
+5 = 158
+6 = 89
+7 = 74
+8 = 70

Eddie had a long cycle yesterday, and we stalled and shot at +15 after he hung in the low 100's for several hours. He was at 174 when I shot, in the hopes that we could catch some overlap, but the insulin must have completely gone kaput immediately afterwards, and maybe there was a bounce. Either way, at +2, Eddie had gone up to 338. ohmygod_smile . Due to the late shot, I set an alarm to get a +4 to get some idea how the cycle would look. I woke up this AM (still on the couch), absolutely certain that Eddie had a number in the 100's at PM +4. I even checked my SS and the meter history. I totally dreamed that I took a +4 test. @-)

At PM +9, which was normal shot time this morning, Eddie was at 237. Went with the assumption that he was in fact rising, and shot 2.4u. At +5.5, he was at 138, which is a little better. DH should be able to get a reading here in a little bit, which will be around +10.

While Eddie doesn't seem any worse for the wear, I'm disappointed by the backslide we seem to have taken. We can't seem to get nadirs below 100, and while the long cycles are nice, and give us an opportunity to catch some overlap, we can't seem to keep him down even when we're shooting low like last night. His shorter cycles are weird too. I feel like we're constantly battling bouncing, which had gotten much better even just two weeks ago. I'm not sure whether to keep doing what we're doing in the hopes that he settles back down, to get more aggressive and try to get some lower nadirs, or maybe even to back off the dose if there is some sort of battle of the bounce going on.

Our old vial of ProZinc is almost done, so I'm thinking that we'll probably start the new vial tonight. The old one is about three months old, so I guess I can hope that maybe it's lost a little potency or something and the new bottle will give us a little more oomph.

 

[Jen&Eddie]

Re: 3/26 Eddie AMPS 237, +5.5 = 138, 10 = 267

+10 = 267. Already on his way back up. Crap! :cry:

 

[nckitties3]

Re: 3/26 Eddie AMPS 237, +5.5 = 138, PMPS 333

I just started a new vial of PZI......nothing changed. I doubt 3 months would make Eddie's weaken. But I understand the idea of 'grasping at straws', been doing it over a year. ohmygod_smile

Because Lucian is so erratic, I would have shot him at 267. But I know you're trying to keep a schedule. I'm trying to GET a shedule. :lol:

 

[Jen&Eddie]

Re: 3/26 Eddie AMPS 237, +5.5 = 138, PMPS 333

I just started a new vial of PZI......nothing changed. I doubt 3 months would make Eddie's weaken. But I understand the idea of 'grasping at straws', been doing it over a year. ohmygod_smile

All we can do is wait to see I guess. I also think it's highly unlikely that Eddie's ProZinc died, but I did hold off on increasing tonight's dose just in case.

Because Lucian is so erratic, I would have shot him at 267. But I know you're trying to keep a schedule. I'm trying to GET a shedule. :lol:

I would have shot too, but I wasn't home yet. :smile: DH grabbed a test and left for the grocery store, so Eddie had to wait for his shot until I got home from work, unfortunately. I'm just hoping now we need to get to a "breakthrough" dose or something and he'll start having better cycles again. So frustrating!

Since we just opened this brand new vial of ProZinc, we're going to use it, but the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking about Lantus. I know it's not a match for every kitty, but the data out there suggests better remission rates generally on Lantus than ProZinc, plus the idea of an actual protocol is appealing. Gah! The one thing that really holds us back (aside from our love for our PZI buddies) is working full time and a relative lack of ability to monitor real closely during the day.

 

[nckitties3]

Re: 3/26 Eddie AMPS 237, +5.5 = 138, PMPS 333, +7 = 74

The 'L's' have advantages and disadvantages, just like all insulin. But cats will respond to one and not another, you won't know unless you try.

The fact that there are set rules that you follow, I think is an advantage. It's a lot easier to help someone when you have a 'rule book' to go by. Not really a book, but you know what I mean. It IS written down somewhere to refer back to and the rules stay the same for all, 99% of the time. Variations are few, except for cats like Lucian, who wouldn't follow the rules or the variations that were tried. Most cats that try Lantus do very well on it and if he's not quite getting where you need him to be, Levemir is also an option, very similar, but just different enough to help the kitties that Lantus can't quite do it for. Again, except Lucian. In all honesty, Levemir was working terrific for him for about 4 months, then all hell broke loose. No idea what happened, just all of a sudden, it couldn't control his numbers anymore. After the vet visit and all the tests, there was nothing to show WHY the Lev quit working. Hence the move to PZI.

A couple disadvantages for the 'L's', it takes forever to find a good dose, even with Tight Regulation. But TR requires considerably more testing than SLGS. It is much more aggressive and works well for the majority, but you have to be able to monitor a very large portion of the time. IMO TR is impossible for a lot of people because of the monitoring necessity which is a very important part of the protocol. Relaxed Lantus and Levemir is not as strict, still performs very well and there are many caregivers that work full time and only get 4-5 tests a day. They just do curves on their day off or catch a few more tests then. Also, the 'L's' don't have the ability to bring down those uber high numbers as well as some of the stronger insulin or 1 that you can up the dose for one shot, like Prozink or PZI. You can't change the dose around. When an increase is called for, you have to hold it a minimum 6-10 cycles, sometimes longer before the cat will 'settle in' to the dose, then decide what to do with it. It takes extended time for the cat to adjust. Of course you don't have to hold a reduction when it's obvious that it's not working. It's just a lot more 'cut and dried' and less flexible than other insulin. Still, I don't think you would have any trouble with the SLGS method of Lantus, since you aren't home enough to do the testing needed for TR.

IMHO, there is NO insulin that doesn't have good and bad. To me the BEST insulin is the one that works well for YOUR cat and that you are able to do what is necessary. Since I'm disabled, I can test a lot, I only leave the house every 7-10 days. But even then, lack of sleep and stress can get the best of you. I've lost count of how many nights I have not slept at all, until 6-7-8AM. Catch 4-5 hrs and start all over.

I so hope you can find the best insulin for him, Lantus has really done well for the majority and Eddie may be one of them. Plenty of experienced members use Lantus and if not for Mel, Lucian and I wouldn't have made it thru those first few months. She held my hand thru Lantus and Levemir. Lord knows, the woman has the patience of a saint. o

You can always drop in our forum and say hi! I still pop in over at Relaxed and a couple friends come over here to check on Lucian. You'll just add to your circle.