3/25. Rags New Dosing Advise

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yo hon

Member Since 2013
7:00 BG 508 eastern time

7::10 ate one can of Fancy Feast

Waiting further instructions for insulin inj. How much do I give at 7:30 a.m.

Do I continue to test evry two hours ?

PLEASE ADVISE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Re: Rags New Topic BG value

Good morning Becki,

I think you still only want to give one unit (1U) this morning. That BG number of 508 is a little higher than last night but still falls in the 20% meter variance range.

Blood Glucose test meters are only required by law to be accurate within 20% on readings. So a reading of 450 could read anywhere between 360 and 540 and still be considered to be the same accuracy and treated with the same dose of insulin.

I know you are scared of those higher readings but it is still very early in the treatment of Rags so these higher numbers are seen in a lot of kitties.

Yesterday, you did a test 2.25 hours after your AMPS. I would like to see you get a test today closer to that +2 hour time. We are still gathering data to see how Rags is reacting to the dose of insulin. We do not want him to drop too low and have another hypo.

Remember our motto "Better too high for one day than too low for a minute".

Also, since you are the original poster of this message, you can edit the message and change the title and change the icon. Since you are looking for more eyes on your posts, if you would bring up your post you will see a little edit box over towards the top right corner. Click on this to open a window to edit and change the radio button to the one with the question mark. I would also suggest changing the title to "3/25 Rags dose advice help". Remember to submit after you make these changes.
 
Becki,

Not many people on this morning to give advice. If you haven't already given Rags his shot, you need to do that. Then post to let us know what you did.
 
like deb wrote - give the 1 unit and get a +2 test and a +4 test after that. please post the test number and we can see what is going on.

if you don't hear from that person in supply closet, how about contacting DCIN - http://fdmb-cin.blogspot.com/p/education.html the email is included in that link - they may be able to help you get insulin inexpensively. please contact them today and ask.

you cannot just rely on one person responding, I do not know the person in supply closet, so don't know the situation. you can also look through there for other offerings of insulin, even coupons for discount on purchasing lantus - but you will need a vet to write a prescription
 
Sorry, Becki.....got to bed way late and wasn't on. He's dropping well. If you take the exact time of the shot and then subtract that from the exact time of the test, it gives you how many points he has dropped. Divide that by 2 and it may help you figure out how much he is dropping per hour.

I have to ask on your syringes. Are they U-100 syringes? Are they marked 3/10 cc? A 3/10 cc syringe holds 30 units of insulin. In your profile you have Novolin N as a U-40 insulin. It is not...it is a U-100 insulin. If you are using a U-100 syringe it is fine but if they, for some dumb reason, gave you U-40 syringes then the dose would be wrong and he truly would not be getting 1 unit. Just double checking. Don't panic.....he would just be underdosed.

Are you home every day or do you work? Are you able to get the tests in we need?
 
he is getting U100, i did not put that info. on his profile. i just corrected it. my syringes mark one unit at a time. I work Mon., Wed., and Friday from 9-1.
Took off today because i'm worried about my boy and his numbers. Need to keep checking them. He just ate 1/4 can of fancy feast after I took his BG. He is ALWAYS starving. My Vet said i could only feed him 1/4, 1/2, and 1/4 food a day. (of the little cans ) he'll die if that's all he eats !!!! I do not listen to anything he has said to me, and REALLY do not want to go back to him. He is sooooo old school.
 
feed him as much as he wants - i told you about Maui and how much food she would eat and I let her eat it as she needed it. give him a full can at a time and add water to it
 
One can of fancy feast is sufficient for a cat that weighs about five pounds or less. I'm guessing Rags weighs a bit more than that? How much does he weigh? And do you have any idea what his ideal weight should be?
 
Glad that is corrected. After you test him a.m. and p.m., then feed him as much as he wants to eat. Wait a 1/2 hr. and then shoot. Once we have an idea of when N is through working.....maybe +6, maybe +8., then any food given once the insulin is pooped out will just raise him up even more.

No two days are ever going to be the same or consistent.....just the way things are. They can do really welll and then throw us a high or low ps test and we are flabbergasted and wonder what the heck is going on. Say he gives you a ps of 120......feed him.....wait and then test again to see if he has shot way up and you can then give him a shot. It can throw schedule off but unlike Lantus or Levemir it does not have to be exactly every 12hrs. on the dot. Even PZI gives you wiggle room because we have no "shed" to keep filled. N and PZI insulins are based on ps numbers and how low at nadir time they go. You get curves with these insulins whereas Lantus and Levemir are more flat.
 
Carl AND Bob. Rags weighs 13 lbs. now. Before this all started he weighed 16 lbs. Doc said he was too heavy. He is a BIG boy. big framed. No, I have NO idea what he should weigh, I just know he does not look healthy to me. Too thin.
 
Becki, that 313....does it include food recently eaten? Don't feed him anymore for now....insulin has either pooped out or food jumped him up a little. Please let me know because if the insulin is through working we can hit him with 1/2 unit and keep him from going high again for his pmps.
 
See, the Doc scared me and said only 1/4, 1/2 and 1/4 just three times a day. I knew he would starve to death with that. I am sooooooooooooooooooo
glad I found this forum and such wonderful people that are soooooooooooooo willing to help. Thank you all soooooooooooooooooooo much! And I KNOW Rags will also Thank You so much !!! Now all I have to do is get the food, I don't have many cans left. Can't buy any until the third.. I HATE living like this !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks. I will be checking his BG at 2:42. I feel terrible cause I lied to him and told him after his +4 I wouldn't have to test him until dinner. Then I got a message asking me to test him two more times. My poor baby! But we NEED to do it, i just pray I don't run out of strips today. It's been snowing all day and don't know how bad the roads are. I took off work, thank God !!!
 
OMG, when I first adopted Mishka she was already in DKA and at an ER but....once I was able to get her home and we started on insulin she would eat 3 FF cans at a sitting! I learned to give her 1 1/2, wait about an hour, then I'd give her the other 1 1/2. Once the insulin and food starting working well and her body adjusted she backed down on how much she needed to eat. I always give Hope, Mishka and MC a can each, sometimes an extra 1/2 can each. Geez, they need some food even if not diabetic and FF is so small.
 
you can supplement the cat food with people food - such as boiled or baked chicken, cooked eggs, if he will eat them - just don't add spices.
and here is the thing about vets - the vet does not live with you and is not in control of what you do or do not do for your animals. you are in control and you decide what to give them and when not the vet.
just remember that anytime you feel in conflict with the vet
 
2:40 p.m. eastern +6 BG 355 running out of test strips and it's been snowing all day. So far 4". But if I have to go, I HAVE to go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
+9.25 BG 573 @6:59 p.m. eastern

HOW MANY units does he get at ? PLEASE ADVISE !!!

Thank you, Becki
 
I will try and find someone. worst case just give him 1 unit as you have been doing but please wait while I look and see if I can find someone with more knowledge.
 
Did you get more strips? Feed him and then you can shoot 2 units. The 1 did nothing as far as bringing him down, only into the 300's, so you can safely give him 2 units but then you will need to hold that dose for a day or two. If you got more strips, then I would again advise of getting a +2 tonight and then a +4. Reason you ran into trouble the other day was because you shot him when he was under 200.
 
ok, I'm getting very nervous. when does Rags getbhis shot and how much, PLEASE, PLEASE DFON'T MAKE ME KEEP BEGGING FOR SOMEONE TON ABSWER !!!
His sugar is high as you could see
 
ok, I'm getting very nervous. when does Rags getbhis shot and how much, PLEASE, PLEASE DFON'T MAKE ME KEEP BEGGING FOR SOMEONE TON ABSWER !!!
His sugar is high as you could see
 
Hi Becki,

I'm seeing a nadir sometime between the +2 and +5 tests today. With the 20% meter variance there really wasn't much difference between the +2, +4 and +5 numbers.

Looks like you would want to increase to 2U for this PM shot.

You have plenty of strips for now since you made a run to Wally World.
 
Hope + (((Baby)))GA said:
Did you get more strips? Feed him and then you can shoot 2 units. The 1 did nothing as far as bringing him down, only into the 300's, so you can safely give him 2 units but then you will need to hold that dose for a day or two. If you got more strips, then I would again advise of getting a +2 tonight and then a +4. Reason you ran into trouble the other day was because you shot him when he was under 200.
Click to expand...


Did you see this post just above yours -

this is what is being suggested

and there is no need to freak out - if you don't get a response and he is above 200 you can always give 1 unit as your current safe dose - OK --

however Hope is suggesting that you give 2 units - ONLY IF YOU HAVE TEST STRIPS
 
Becki, you need to slow down and calm down. I had already posted yet 24 minutes later you are panicking because you need to know what to shoot.

I'm glad you were able to get more test strips. You never responded earlier when I had also suggested that he was on his way back up and you could give him 1/2 a unit at that time to help keep him from going way up.

He is not getting much duration out of the N.... we know that...and in reality you could go t.i.d. with him.... three shots a day split about 7 hrs. apart. We would have to try with maybe 1 unit each time along with testing. Feeding a lot of small meals through the day will not help with an insulin like N. Lantus and Levermir.....yes.......they build up a depot......N works like a U. Your ps, then curves down, reaches whatever peak it is going to, bottoms out and starts back up. Feeding after peak only makes the numbers go higher. You can also do t.i.d with PZI insulin but no other insulins.
 
Yes FEED him! the only time we suggest that you don't feed is 2 hours before you do the pre-shot test (amps and PMPS) -- otherwise, let him eat and feed him when he is hungry!
 
and may i suggest that when you ask these kinds of questions and want an immediate answer that you stay online so you can see the response.

also, I told you before, that you need to feed the cat - do not let him be hungry - give him as much food as he wants and do not limit it - use your common sense - ok

until he has normal bg numbers he will need to eat more than the normal amount of food - becuase he is not processing is correctly in body - ok - so feed the cat! don't let him be hungry

you can feed him several times a day if needed
 
Have to disagree with Hillary. By testing you will know when the insulin has bottomed out and is no longer working to keep the bg down. You can feed him all he wants after his normal routine of test, feed and then shoot. You do not feed after the insulin has peaked and his number start to rise. There is no long any help coming from the insulin to keep those numbers down. Lantus and Levemir have a shed and insulin is always in that shed. With N and PZI there is no shed. Any food given after insulin has peaked is just going to raise numbers up. You saw today with the tests how he reached a certain number and then he just started going up again. This is why N is basically useless. Too fast acting and no long duration.

Did you give him 2 units?
 
Hope, even I am confused now. I thought in a previous post it was said not to feed 2 hours before the amps and pmps, but that is not what you are saying....would you mind spelling out the testing and feeding times so it is really clear to all.

thanks :-D
 
Hillary, i never signed out. according to my computer it said I was online. Even showed me that on the bottom where it shows who is on line, and your name wasn't there either. i do not EVER sign out !!!!!
I gave him two units, and just took his BG at 10:02 as I'm sure you saw. but i never saw yours ot Hopes, sorry ! i don't know what is going on with this computer.
I'm going to take it at 12:00 m.n. too. I'll post it on here, it will be on the SS tomorrow. Will you be on here at midnight ?
 
If you reload or refresh your page it will let you know when new posts appear - also if you check the box at the bottom of the post - notify me when a reply is posted, it will send you an email when new posts appear.
 
Okay, test, feed, wait a 1/2 hr to shoot because food needs to on board. He can eat whatever he wants until he reaches his nadir....U...he starts at the top of the U, curves down to the bottom, insulin stops working, goes back up to the top of the U. These insulins, be it N, L, U (discontinued L and U ) curved. You would do a curve to get a handle on how low they go at peak before insulin wears out and they start rising back up. Any food given after peak, the insulin is no longer working to keep their numbers from going back up. Say a cat reaches peak/nadir at +7. Any food given after +7 the insulin is wearing out and no longer helping to keep the numbers down. Look at the link I posted to Becki on what a normal curve looks like and how food affects the numbers.

Each cat can be different on this insulin as to how long before nadir, some at only +4, and then they start rising again. Fast to bring them down but no duration to keep them down for very long before going back up. Add food to that and they go up even faster.

Hope came to me on IDEXX PZI. Baby(GA) was on U for 5 1/2 years, L just didn't do it for her. Mishka was on U for several years before being discontinued and now is on PZI. I can feed them just fine but if I feed them after their nadir.....insulin worn out and numbers go climbing. The cats do adapt and become accustomed to the feeding schedule.
 
thanks for the explanation - I think I understand and I looked at the link and realize holy smokes - no wonder this is not an ideal insulin to use, not only do you need to understand the insulin, you have to figure out when you can feed, whereas with the lantus, lev or pzi, it;s not as big a deal when to feed. another reason why using these insulins are a better option. not to mention the longer duration of the insulin.

Becki - have you talked with DCIN yet about help in getting a better insulin? and what if you call the vet;s office, talk to the younger vet and ask if he will write a scrip for lantus or sell you prozinc? I think prozinc is less expensive than lantus or levimer and it is a good insulin.
 
Original N primer that was used as an explanation for several years when all that was available were the Humulins. I never read of any cat on N that ever experienced any long duration on N but it helps explain why we need the curves, need to find the peak (lowest point in the cycle).

http://gorbzilla.com/nph_101.htm
 
Becki, let's see where he is tonight but do not increase the dose above 2 units. He needs to settle a bit with this dose or he may need to go down to 1 1/2 units or maybe up to 2 1/2 units. Time and testing and curves will tell.
 
at 12:06 a.m eastern







=

















at 12:06 a.m. eastern +4 BG 312 ate less than 1/4 can of ff at 11:30 p.m. Goodnight !!!
 
Becki,

Wow, that's a lot of white space. You are too loopy and need to get some sleep.

That number looks fine. Remember, we suggested you shoot 2U tomorrow morning.

I'm thinking to do a +4, +6 and +8 tomorrow to try to narrow down the duration.

Also, would you please start a new post for tomorrow with the date , cat name.
 
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