3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +4 62 +5 64 +6 94 +7 102 +8 132

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charliesmom

charliesmom

Member Since 2012
Think Charlie bounced this morning. She didn't seem like she was feeling well all day. Vomited just after her +4 test, slept and looked at me lethargically all day long.

It seems her numbers are starting to come down now though, so that's a good sign. So far, in the short amount of time we've been using levemir, it seems her bounces are shorter (if we can even call these bounces). It also seems like the levemir has her a tiny bit more stabilized. Pre-shots seem lower, and we've seen a few blues over the past 2 days. I sure hope this is a new trend, and not just a fluke thing like it usually is.

Hope everyone is having a great day.

Jill
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 Help to steer the cyc

Hi guys,

Know it's a very good thing for charlie to finally see green, but since it's 10pm and only at +3 on levemir. Plus since we shot a bit lower than usual (190 PMPS), I am a bit worried about how this night will go.

Yesterday Jill mentioned that levemir's onset is +4 and the nadir comes much later (+8 ish). If we're this low already, does this mean it's a 2nd night in a row where I need to stay up all night with her?

Your help and advice is appreciated.

Charlie's SS is up to date.

Jill
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 Help to steer the cyc

Hi Jill,
I'm not familiar with levemir but I would hope the steering process is similar enough that you can give a little gravy to bump up Charlie...
and start seeing if Charlie reacts to it early so you know whether or not to break out a medium carb or hi carb to raise the numbers to where you are comfortable.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 Help to steer the cyc

We currently only have LC food and maple syrup (felix senior). I've been having a real hard time figuring out a food that I can find here in the Netherlands that's MC or HC. We've tried all sorts of foods that are supposedly LC and we've also learned the hard way via much trial and error. Reading the backs of cans here had proven to be complex. Sometimes a food looks like LC but it has sugar in it. It's tricky.

For the future, somebody told me about a website called zooplus.com where I can order food from the UK / Germany into the Netherlands. If someone is an expert at this and can look at that site to tell me what to buy (for MC and HC's), I'd sure appreciate it. For now, I ordered a bit stock of smilia poultry pots (another friend from the board just told me about that, so we'll try that LC food next as soon as it arrives and then try to stick with that to gain some consistency.

For tonight though, my "steering" is more like "yanking the wheel tightly to make a turn" (LC + Maple syrup) if need be.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83

Okay so it's syrup for the boost... I'd start with a tiny amount at first (like one drop) and see if Charlie stays in the 80's....
I did pm for other eyes.

I have watched a friend use milk to bring up numbers... ( it raised her cat by 17 in half an hour but Each cat is different and her cat wouldn't eat anything else )
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83

I'm just trying to think a little outside the box. Shadow loves the juice from Leseur canned peas ( which are a medium-hi carb ( and oops a little sugar too) )
I'm sure you don't have that brand of peas... I was just trying to think of things with medium carbs that you could experiment with when you
are in safe numbers....

Would you pm me your address and I will send you a few cans for future use that we know the carb value on for these occasions ? I don't think customs will
care.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +3.5 71

Not yet. Testing with tuna. In a way, I want to steer her upwards with syrup, but only if it drops below the normal threshold. Is that good logic?
Will test again in an hour since the last test was at 10:30pm (71 at +3.5)

Does that seem reasonable or should I be testing prior to that?
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +3.5 71

I am okay with your logic. That's why I was thinking out loud while ago. :-D

I remember the early days where you didn't like getting too low but eventually you have to do it.
You need to do what you are comfortable with.

I myself was always wanting to get to the magic number and earn a decrease.
You have less tools in your toolbox without other cans to pop open and manipulate the numbers.
I never had to use syrup myself and I know you have before.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +3.5 71

I would test at +4 just to keep on track and if she continues the slow drop or surfs then test again in an hour but keep an eye on her for symptoms.

Also how are you for strips?
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +3.5 71

Tons of strips. Bought $500 worth of them while back in the states, as that same amount of strips would've cost me $1500 here, and I just lost my job in Jan so needed to be proactive where I could.

WIll test now at +4. Was thinking that same thing.

Awfully tired. Late night cappuccino time as well.

Charlie the drama queen likes to keep me on my toes. ~O)
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +3.5 71

Its a good thing.. greens are nice to see and if she drops low enough mean a dose decrease. So keep with that coffee! And set an alarm clock in case you nod off.

Great picture of her btw. My Tiggy loves that position...
 
3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +3.5 71 +4 62

At this point, we don't even want dose decreases. We just want stability. Please diabetic God of Gods, bring Charlie some stability in the blues and greens for awhile, and bring her mom some sleep.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62

Tiggy is adorable, by the way. Just saw the picture. Who's the other cutie next to him/her?
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +3.5 71

The vomiting noted on the spreadsheet at +5 is concerning; it may take him too low just from that. Not sure that will qualify for the dose reduction that way.

If necessary, you can mash up some cooked, plain peas or beans and add a half teaspoon or so to the canned food to add carbohydrate. Peas and beans are a bit slower to absorb than grains, though (aka lower glycemic index).

Flour gravy is nothing more than how you'd make it in cooking. Take a skillet, add a tablespoon of flour, slowly stir in drops of water or unsalted meat/poultry stock and mash out the lumps while over low heat, stir in liquid until it is the consistency you want. Once made, stir together a blend of the gravy and food, maybe 50/50 to use for hypo intervention. Freeze the excess in ice cube form so you can pull out what you need if and when you need it.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62

still dropping? You are going to need another test in 30 minutes. (+4.5) If its still dropping I would give a drop of karo and a tablespoon of LC.

The other cat is Bailey - also diabetic! he is really sweet but a complete PITA to his civvie sister Cookie who he loves to chase.

Wendy
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54

+4.5 = 54

Fed a few spoons of LC with a splash of maple syrup. She came RUNNING for it.

Smart kitty knows something is UP!

Or she's just a girl who thinks with her tummy...
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54

Sounds good - another test in 30 minutes please. More coffee for you too and maybe some chocolate. Dont over feed her as you might need to keep doing this for a while. If the next test is still dropping give her 2 drops of karo and same amount of LC.

Do you have an emergency vet near you? Are they open tonite? Just want to be totally prepared.

Wendy
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54

Oh boy. Please don't say emergency vet. In Charlie's first 6 months of diabetes, we were there 3 times. Thousands of dollars later...

There is an emergency vet. Not sure if they're open tonight. I think they are open 24 hours.

I will test again in 30.

Cappuccino #2. You're absolutely right.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54

Thanks for the tip on the homemade gravy and beans, BJM. Tonight we'll stick with the LC and maple syrup.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54

Just need to be prepared in case he doesnt respond well enough to the syrup. I have asked some more experienced guys to pop over too. Maybe I will have a coffee too.

We need to see two rising numbers without syrup to know he is safe.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54

If you have to, some vanilla ice cream would raise up the numbers too. I always used to keep vanilla ice cream on hand just for J.D.

You're doing fine. Will be waiting for your +5.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

+5 = 64

She's lying on her side giving herself a bath. Good sign I think.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

It's good she's up a little bit, but unfortunately you can't relax yet as the syrup will wear off. I would feed a little bit more, and test again in a half hour. If she has risen in a half hour, then don't feed and test again in half hour. Sorry :roll: You'll want to see at least two rising numbers without food, before you can go to bed, and don't forget her nadir on levemir could be around +8, so we have a ways to go, yet.

Keep drinking coffee, for now. And have a chocolate.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

Her normal 2nd feeding time is at 1am, so in 1 hour. Do you think I should just feed her the full amount sooner?

Or just feed her a few more spoons of LC with maple syrup?

To catch her rising twice without feeding will be difficult, unless I don't feed, but that seems counterproductive given the circumstances. Right?
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

Somebody told me today that they have experienced nadirs on levemir anywhere between +6 and +12. Knowing my little drama queen, I bet hers could be later It's so difficult to tell, honestly for me. Can't see the forest through the trees. Just blocking and tackling and a whole game is going on all around me. ;-)
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

I wouldnt feed her too much since we could be at this for a while and if we need to bring her up you dont want her too full to eat the syrup etc. Give her a couple of tablespoons of low carb food and test again at 5.5
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

5.5 is in just 10 mins. I am thinking about waiting (she's resting now) and feeding her a few spoons with her test. Good plan?
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

Yes, LC. Save the syrup for if she goes back into the low 50s or 40s.
I would just keep feeding her a couple teaspoons of LC at a time for now. Don't worry about the regularyly scheduled meal, right now.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

Charlie's automatic feeder just opened up (30 mins early) and her instinct was to DARt as fast as she could to get to the food. I got there first though.
Feel so bad taking it away from her given the circumstances. I will test her now and feed her. She looks weird. Her eyes are all funny and closed. I don't like the looks of it.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

I hope she is okay. Please continue to let us know how she is doing.
 
3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +5 64 +5.5 70

+5.5 = 70
I gave her a few spoons of LC. Maybe she's just tired from all the ups and downs?
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

70 is perfectly ok - just keep an eye on her though. she is probably mad from no dinner and lots of ear pokes ;)
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

Recap:

AMPS = 259
+4 = 266
Vomited
+6 = Fed at normal 2nd feeding time
+7 = 257
+11 = 149

PMPS = 190
+1.75 = 128
+2.75 = 83
+3.5 = 71
+4 = 62
+4.5 = 54
Fed few spoons LC with splash maple syrup
+5 = 64
+5.5 = 70
Fed few spoons LC
+6 = 94
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

Maybe another test at +6 and if he is still going up you can probably delay the next one an hour and feed him.. .Dyana - what do you think?
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

I think testing in an hour sounds okay.

Jill, can you delete some of the earlier tests from the Subject Line in your first post, please, so I can see at a glance how Charlie is doing?
I'm kind of helping a bunch of people and I'm getting behind.. slooow typer.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

Nope. I'd test in 30 min. Lev nadir is later than Lantus -- usually around +8. Unless you are absolutely sure these numbers aren't propped up by food, it's better to test more than less.
 
3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64 +5.5 70 +6 94

+6 = 94

Now is her normal feeding time. Feed?

Or test again in 1 hour and feed little by little, each time I test?
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64 +5.5 70 +6 94

She's resting so I will feed a few more spoonfuls of LC at her next test (1:30am ... in 10 mins) or else at 2am.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64 +5.5 70 +6 94

I would PM sienne if you want an instant response since she knows a lot about levemir but I suspect you aren't out of the woods till +8 unless she shoots up. She's going up though so that's good. Next time you will have better idea of how she behaves and not need to worry as much.

Wendy
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64 +5.5 70 +6 94

Numbers seem to be rising but that may be from the HC. I would feed the LC and now I think re-testing in an hour will be fine.

BTW, I don't know that I would feed homemade gravy with beans. I've had cats that would eat pretty much anything and they wouldn't eat beans. Unless you know that your cat can tolerate that combination, I wouldn't use it for the first time in a situation where you need to steer the numbers.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64 +5.5 70 +6 94

Thanks ladies. She's fast asleep. I am going to let her rest for 30 minutes and then test and feed at the same time. I think she'll be OK. All these disturbances and pokes every 15-30 are starting to annoy her. Since her last test was at 94 (and that was 1.5 hours after the LC + splash of maple syrup), my gut tells me she'll be fine for 30 more mins. I'm watching vigilantly, just in case that changes and I notice anything from her behavior.

I am going to try to find an answer to my MC and HC for European foods (that can be ordered off the zooplus.com website). If I find some, I wont need beans and gravy.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

charliesmom said:
Charlie's automatic feeder just opened up (30 mins early) and her instinct was to DARt as fast as she could to get to the food. I got there first though.
Feel so bad taking it away from her given the circumstances. I will test her now and feed her. She looks weird. Her eyes are all funny and closed. I don't like the looks of it.
Click to expand...
No more weird closed eyes, I hope.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64 +5.5 70 +6 94

Nope. That was happening earlier. I think she was drowsy. Now she's snoozing. Just took a little peak and she seems just fine.
 
Re: 3/25 Charlie PMPS 190 +2 128 +3 83 +4 62 +4.5 54 +5 64

charliesmom said:
PMPS = 190
+1.75 = 128
+2.75 = 83
+3.5 = 71
+4 = 62
+4.5 = 54
Fed few spoons LC with splash maple syrup
+5 = 64
+5.5 = 70
Fed few spoons LC
+6 = 94
Click to expand...
This is a beautiful cycle for Charlie. :smile: Gooooo Charlie!

Jill, you're making good decisions about feeding and testing. Your instincts seem to be right on with regards to what Charlie needs.
 
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