3/22 The drama of Bert AMPS 473 PMPS 199 +2 120

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Kathy

Kathy

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We have had a rough few days.
Been in close contact with Bert's vet as his numbers have been running high.

This morning was the highest we have gotten :sad:
Any of the increase in insulin you see on his chart was per the vets instructions.
I am really at a loss with this cat.

I was teaching my DD to give Bert's shot last night and I am sure she hot it in and it was snot a fur shot, but with the high number it makes me wonder.

I don't know why Bert thinks red looks good on him :-|
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

Good morning Kathy and Bert. :-D
Kathy I think the reason you are seeing the higher numbers is because of the dose hopping. I know it is hard when a vet is telling you to do one thing and we are telling you to do another thing.
I don't think Bert was on the last dose long enough to see any change. It can take 5 to 7 days to see the effects.....sometimes longer.
By raising the dose too fast you may miss the best dose for Bert.
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

Good morning, not sure if I have visited you yet but I know your frustration, I was so frustrated in the beginning! Personally for me I have went off of the advice about dosing from this board rather than my vet! My vet wanted to start him on 2u, I said no only 1u, when I wanted to start a dosecrease she was unsure but I did it anyway and I know ecid (every cat is different) but just thought I would share my experience! Hope your day gets better!!!!
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

You guys are so funny :-D

Look at the new thread I just posted ohmygod_smile
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

Kathy I know it is hard to go against the advice of your vet because we do need them. When Putty was first dx I was also given a higher starting dose. I had been lurking here so I knew that the dose was too high.
Even the best of vets may not know very much about FD or how to treat it.
I told my vet ( whom I love) about this site and said that I was comfortable with the knowledge here. She was very receptive. I never went to her for dosing advice in a year and a half. She tells me I know more about FD than she does and she knows I can do a better job managing Putty's dosing insulin than she can.

If you could get more spot checks whenever you are home that would be great. The more data you collect the easier it will be to dose and give a better idea of where the numbers came from.....make sense? :mrgreen:
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

From my Question thread

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, I will move it if I need to :)

If you would be so kind as to take a look at Bert's SS.
I feel so out of control with him.
I feel like I am driving a crazy train.
I am not sure my vet knows what hell he is doing.
Somethings he tells me to do do not jive with advice here.
My DH thinks we should follow the vets instructions and get advice for FDMB, but at the end of the day follow the vets orders.

I like to be in control of things and I clearly am not in the treatment of Bert.
If Bert was your cat what would you do?

I try so hard to get spot checks, but we are gone a lot during the day.
I know I can improve in our PM spot checks.
I really "like" our vet and do not want to move, but I want what is best for Bert.

I have a heavy heart this morning....
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

If you like your vet that is great. You don't have to change vets but ask him if he is willing to work with you?
I am sorry this is so hard for you.
Bert will be ok. It takes time and patience and a bit of a commitment and you will see things change with Bert. You can be in control....Bert is your cat and you need to do what you think is best.
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

OK...I need to go to spot check boot camp :-D

I may have asked this 100 times, but is there any golden hour spot checks that reveal the most info that I should try to get.

If I know I must test his BG at +3, +6 and so on then I can try to make that happen.
I am a very black and white kind of girl and FD diabetes is anything but B&W!!!
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

Hi Kathy
I understand your difficulties.
I have been to 4 vets with Max.
Vet #1 started us on Caninsulin (vetsulin) just when the alerts came out
Vet #2 believed in Lantus
Vet # 3 yold me to increase his dose to a crazy amount
Vet #4 told me to leave his dose for 2 weeks.
All vets told me to stop hometesting.

Now I cannot tell you that you have to follow the board and only listen to your vet but I can tell you that I have not spoken to a vet since Jan 22.
Have a look at Max's ss. Now Ithink he has proved to be a special case but we we up
to 6u a month ago and now we are shooting .5u.
I took control of Max and we are getting very close.
I know Max would not be doing a well as he is with any of my vets advise.
Bert is your cat and you have to do what you feel is right for him.
Hope this helps some.
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

If I were you I would stick with the 1.75 dose and get more spot checks. As far as giving you exact times to check it does not have to always be at the same time. For starters if you are home today I would get a +3 and maybe a +5 or +6. Sometimes the numbers dictate when you should spot check. Any checks you can get at night especially right before you go to bed would be helpful. This may seem like a lot of work and it is but the more data you collect the more info you will have as to how Bert is reacting to Lantus.

It is overwhelming at first and it is very easy to question why you should follow the advice here over your vets advice but I think a lot of people here will tell you that there are many experienced Lantus users here with a lot to offer.
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

Kathy --

I agree with everything that Miriam has said. Lantus requires patience. It doesn't bring numbers down quickly. The shorter acting insulins do this but at a big price. It takes a while for Lantus doses to build and during that process, consistency is needed. With rapid increases or decreases, you are causing the shed to empty and fill without regaining stability. Stick with the 1.75u. Start getting spot checks -- religiously. Some of the high numbers when you don't have checks are likely due to bouncing up from lower numbers. If you don't test, you don't know and your dosing will suffer. Now that you've said you want to go to spot check boot camp, we will nag you incessantly!!
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

((Kathy)) I do feel your frustration. I too had a hard time at first when my vet told me to shoot 4u for Shadow and 3u for Raja. I joined the forum and everyone here said it was too high to start. Meanwhile, my vet wanted me to go back in for their BGs to be checked...ONCE a week!!!! Once I began home testing as per the suggestions from the people here, I began to chart their numbers and knew that I had much better control over what was happening...

Our vets have to be versed in many subjects for many different animals. The people here deal with FD kitties...hundreds of them....so it is intense focus on the FD here. There are tried and true methods of dosing and dealing with increases as well as decreases. We have so many kitties who have gone through the months and have gone OTJ because of the steady method that is used here.

For myself, I realized that I was the one who was with my two FD kitties each and every day. So were the people on the forum....they were with me in my condo each and every day. You like your vet and that is sooo great, but for the special day-to-day treatment of FD, it IS up to YOU alone because Bert is your kitty and you are there with him...

There is a protocol followed here. It is systematic and everyone does the same thing.
We raise the doses at certain times and hold the doses for certain times. It has been proven --it does work!

In the end, there is a way for you to follow this method while still keeping your vet (maybe not getting dosing information directly from him, but keep going to him for check-ups etc) I actually switched insulins (from Vetsulin which my vet prescribed back in August to Levemir which I ordered on my own and they have done so very well with the switch. I never would have had this success if I had not done that....my Raja went OTJ in Dec and I know that the people here made that possible) It was scary at first because I thought that I should trust the "Doctor"...but realized that the people here have a method that has been used by so many people. It's the success and the numbers that speak volumes, know what I mean? The real authority in FD is this forum....not my vet!

Please read and maybe print out the sticky at the top of the page regarding the protocol...
Changing doses too often give you wonky numbers....

Miriam and Sienne have give you good suggestions....they are voices of experience!!!

I feel your frustration. Try not to worry. Take some deep breaths...relax and know that you are doing good...
Hey wanted to tell you that one cannot delete a post IF there is another post or two in response to it. You can only delete if if no one has posted a reply.
Keep posting your concerns...we know what you are going through...((Kathy))
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

Kathy, I'm in similar shoes. I listened to my vet, who like many vets just isn't that well versed in FD. I wasted months just letting things ride along on vet recommendations. Last week that all changed though. Tugger is all of a sudden keeping me on my toes and up all night but I think he's working his way towards a dose decrease. I'm following the advice of the folks here now and I am seeing results. Fast results. ECID, every cat is different, of course but at this point I am thrilled to see my boy feeling better and I am going to keep doing what is working. I plan to teach my vet(s), if he's(they're) willing to learn. I've just got to learn first ;) I'm so new to this that I'm afraid to do anything without one of these ladies telling me to do it! It was really hard for me to make a decision all by myself this morning to shoot, but they've all been here for me through every second of the roller-coaster ride these past few days so I felt like I might be able to make it (even if for some reason they had to sleep or work or something other than hold my hand and babysit me ;-) ) so I took a deep breath and went for it.

Honestly, these folks are smart. They have devoted years of their lives to caring for their fur-kids and getting them healthy. I watched for a while before I jumped in, they know more than most vets, you can look at the results they get from the public spreadsheets and see that what they are doing is working. I watched long enough to see how they handled a variety of situations and they are careful folks who won't let you put your kitty at risk. They'll send you to your vet if they don't feel they can advise on something. There's a vet or two that posts here as well.

I've been to a lot of forums over the years. I've kind of learned how to tell which ones are great ones and which ones you should run from. There are generally a lot more you should run from than there are great ones, but this one is a great one. I can't tell you what to do, but I've made my choice =)
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473

Hi Kathy, Stu was switched to Lantus from the discontinued PZI Vet, got very high bg numbers, and had his dose increased by the vet several times, by large increments. When I got really concerned, found this board and started home-testing, Stu was receiving 7 units of Lantus bid. It was obvious that his body was working very hard to keep control of itself. The advice and help I have received here on the FDMB has been priceless. Stu's numbers are good (a bounce here and there, but steadily going down), he feels good again and is doing things he hasn't done in years. I have my cat back. Please stick with the protocol and listen to the experienced people on this board. They know what they are talking about. You will see good results.
Ella
P.S. When I finally went back to my vet, told him I was home-testing, and showed him a copy of the protocol and Stu's spreadsheet, he was very supportive. He had heard great things about Lantus (that is why he prescribed it), but being a busy vet and not having other feline diabetes patients at present, he didn't realize how differently it works from the more traditional cat insulins.
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473 PMPS 199

199 :?:
That is quite a difference from 473!!

I worked all day, so was not able to spot check.

For the days I work, I should be able to get a +2 , +4 1/2(some days). we shoot at 7 o'clock, so it may be the same at night as that has me going to bed at 11.

I have Wed. off, so will try to do more spot checks past the +4 mark.
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473 PMPS 199 +2 120

Do you think Bert will go much lower?

I always feed 1/2 can of FF before bed, which is now.
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473 PMPS 199 +2 120

(((Kathy & Bert))) I Just wanted to drop thru & show my support for the two of you..
I too, only take advice from the board - but my vet is pretty non existent unless I contact them & thankfully they listen to me (which is scary - how do they know where I get my advice lol) Anyway.. for what my opinion is worth - I agree with Miriam and Putty, the dose hopping is more than likely contributing to your frusturation. Please follow the protocol & ask for dosing advice if you are not sure - it looks like Bert is on a new dose quite often & his lil body is probably confused? Cheering you both on & wishing you luck!!
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473 PMPS 199 +2 120

You've gotten great advice today, take a few deep breaths and think about it and you'll be able to see what to do.

In the meantime, can you do another spot check tonight? Looks like Bert is going green tonight!
 
Re: 3/23 The drama of Bert AMPS 473 PMPS 199 +2 120

Sooo happy you are here Kathy!!! If I wouldn't have found this board I would probably be in the nut house by now lol! I was one of the lucky one's and found the board at the very beginning of his diagnosis. The people here are amazing and I would listen to them over my vet any day of the week!!!!! I know the logic sounds crazy when you think about it but sometimes having a degree doesn't mean you have experience with something you know??? Scrabble is doing so well right now and it is because of my constant posting and question asking and great advice. Don't hesitate to ask a a question even if you think it is stupid. Once you get on a roll with things you might want to visit other cat's condos to see how they are doing on lantus. I was always curious so I started visiting condos and it made me realize that you are not alone in this and other people's progress can be quite encouraging! Anyway, just wanted to offer you my thoughts! Hope your night is good!
 
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