3/22 Rocky PMPS 248 +1.3 353 +3 328 +8 408

[Tina & Rocky]

Good afternoon,

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=115860&p=1218456#p1218456

I was up until past 2am last night checking on Rocky, so this morning I was going BTB for every hour after I tested him. That's why I'm posting his new condo in the afternoon.

Rocky's BG finally went down again after the dosecrease to 2.0u last night. I was worried that he might go too low, but surprisingly it did not do so. His BG of 175 at PMPS +3 was his lowest test, and then his BG climbed back into the 300s again overnight. As far as I can tell he did not get into any of the green numbers overnight.

I forgot to get a test at his PMPS but I believe that number was in the 300s, could have even been in the 400s.

I'm not sure, but his numbers so far today do not look like a bounce to me but then again I am not experienced enough to read his SS and know what it means.

Rocky's recap of yesterday:
AMPS 397 +2 319 +4 347 +6 285 +8 333 +11 331
PMPS (?) 351 +1 267 +2 175 +3 181 +4 194 +9 361

Julie, yes, I'm going to do my best to keep Rocky from going too low. I don't really want his BG to go to 50, but it would be good if he good stay slightly above that in the greens. Then again, maybe that would send him bouncing again. So far, it looks his liver **might** not be reacting to a few blue numbers.

One more thing, Rocky has one more of his ringworm pills left for tomorrow morning. I am trying to decide if I should continue him on them or not. His fur has mostly grown in where he was bald but of course it is not the same length of the fur that did not get the ringworm. He still doesn't have enough fur where his ear's meet the back of his head, and that bald patch that was on his throat is barely covered with fur now.

I'm going to call the vet and ask for another refill, I think. I don't really like this drug because I understand it can be hard on the liver. Rocky had one liver test while taking this medication and they told me all of his numbers were within normal range, so they did not believe the drug was causing a problem for him. Still, I wonder if such an antibiotic can cause long-term liver damage..

But the ringworm has to be completely gone before I can bring him into the rest of my house with my other cats. It would be one nightmare if all of the others got it. I simply could not afford to treat them all for it.

 

[Tina & Rocky]

LowerRe: 3/22 Rocky AMPS 321 +5 196 +6 165 +8 135 +9 134 +10

I just fed Rocky 1/4 can of his zero carb food. Worried that he is going to be too low to shoot at his PM shot time in less than 2 hours. nailbite_smile

He's having a pretty good surf today. I really hope I don't blow it and that he has a big ol' bounce because of this. I definitely do not want to lower his dose, although I'm wondering if I should lower his shot for this PM?

 

[MrZ]

Re: 3/22 Rocky Lower his PM shot insulin dose?

Hi Tina, what a nice blue surf Rocky's having. I know you're aware that Lantus likes consistency so was wondering why you're considering a reduced shot tonight? Are you going to be home and be willing to guide him with food if needed? Do you have strips, karo, HC? If he were mine, I would not feed anymore before shot time and would see where he is at PMPS and would shoot the full dose (or stall if warranted). Course if you don't think you could stay up with him or you don't have strips or hypo supplies on hand then that would be a different matter. This could be a great opportunity to have him surf blue some more or keep a possible bounce from going higher than it would have otherwise.

The only thing is that I would not have fed within the 2 hour window before shot time. I wouldn't want his numbers to be food influenced especially since he was dropping. I would want to know that the number was rising on it's own.

 

[MrZ]

Re: 3/22 Rocky Lower his PM shot insulin dose?

I know you have concerns about him spending time in green and the bounce that bound to come afterwards. Is that why you shot a reduced dose in the AM and are considering doing the same tonight?

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 3/22 Rocky Lower his PM shot insulin dose?

Julie, yes, I'm going to do my best to keep Rocky from going too low. I don't really want his BG to go to 50, but it would be good if he good stay slightly above that in the greens.

Good luck. If you really think you have that much control over Rocky's numbers, more power to you. Unless your goal is regulation vs. remission, then you are going to need to deal with numbers that may drop below 50. If you want to keep Rocky below renal threshold, then you can allow his numbers to fall up to the low 200s. It's your call. But, even if your goal is regulation, I suggest you consider that your cat is a cat and will not do what you want. Our kitties are the ones leading this dance -- not us.

IMHO, lowering the PM dose will result in numbers that are all over the place because you don't let the depot stabilize. The dose changes at every shot. You would probably be better advised to consider feeding something other than a food with zero carbs. Some cats do better on food that has some carbs.

 

[Tina & Rocky]

Re: 3/22 Rocky Lower his PM shot insulin dose?

Hi Sienna and Laura,

Well, his BG just went up at +11 to 165. Who knows if it was a food induced BG, or not. I did feed him those small amounts of his zero carb food 2x where I usually do not feed him. Yes, it was my attempt to possibly keep his numbers elevated for his PMPS shot.

I get confused here because I am told that it would be good if I did "this or that" and then at the same time I am told, "it's completely out of your control." :lol: I am trying to 'regulate' Rocky's BG, so I am doing things that might accomplish that. I guess what you're saying then Sienna is that I shouldn't expect him to do anything, despite what I may try to do to help him? Like, don't get my hopes up? :roll:

I will give him his 2.0u shot tonight but I am worried about him going too low and not being able to catch up. But, I'll give it my best effort. The vet's office isn't even a five minutes drive from here should we find ourselves in trouble..

 

[MrZ]

Re: 3/22 Rocky Lower his PM shot insulin dose?

Tina, I don't know if you saw Julie's post on Rocky's condo yesterday so I've added it her just in case you hadn't. The message was to try and keep Rocky's dose at 2 units in an effort to bring down the higher numbers. That's why I was curious why you reduced to 1.75 this morning. The key to trying to bring down Rocky's BG is to be consistent with the dose, within the adjustment guidelines of the Protocol. If you're concerned that Rocky may go too low based on the previous cycle or the PS#, you should consider steering with food, not reducing the dose, keeping in mind that steering with food may entail breaking out the MC, HC or even Karo when warranted. Does that make sense?

i'm going to go ahead and post here since i'm online now and you don't have a condo open yet for saturday.

i just want to encourage you to try to keep Rocky from getting a reduction at the 2.0 dose. we talked about it a few days ago - holding up the low numbers allows you to give enough insulin to hopefully bring down the higher range of numbers. Give more carbs if you see him heading down - yes, you can prevent him from getting into blues or greens if you want. how you implement it is up to you. you may have to do some tinkering to figure out what works for Rocky.

The goal is simply to be able to continue giving enough insulin to bring down the higher BGs.

 

[Tina & Rocky]

Re: 3/22 Rocky Lower his PM shot insulin dose?

Oh, I am sorry everyone that is trying to help Rocky. That was a TOTAL typo this afternoon. I am running on barely any sleep lately. I was asked for further information on a grant application and I have been scrambling to complete it before the deadline on this coming Monday at 5pm.

NO-- I did NOT reduce Rocky's dose to 1.75 this morning. (I will go back and correct that on Rocky's SS) I gave Rocky the full 2.0u shot this morning and it seems to have helped him very much! :mrgreen:

So, my question about lowering the dose was really about him going into numbers that were too low at pre-shot PM time tonight. Anyway, I will give him the full 2.0u shot and just monitor him very closely. He is crying for his dinner as I type this.

Sorry for causing so much confusion. :?

 

[MrZ]

Re: 3/22 Rocky Lower his PM shot insulin dose?

Oh, good. I'm glad you're holding the 2u until the next adjustment is due or earned. I see Rocky's PMPS is 248 so hopefully you won't have any drama tonight (but you just never know) so you should always keep the sticky on Shooting and Handling Low Numbers handy. Good luck tonight Tina. Hoping your evening goes smoothly.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: Made a mistake! 3/22 Rocky PMPS 248

Take a look at what happens when people shoot low. It's not unreasonable to think that if you have a cat that can drop from the 300s to the 60s that if you shoot when the pre-shot is 100 that the numbers will tank. That's not necessarily the case. Take a look at Davidson's SS, for example. Shawna is routinely shooting green numbers and Davidson's cycles are largely flat green. That is one of the strengths of Lantus. Once a cat is better regulated, you can see low, flat cycles. The basic mantra is, "Shoot low to stay low." although it's contingent on your having the data to shoot low.

My earlier point was that we all do our best to keep our cats in good numbers. The difficulty is we're dealing with a living, breathing organism that has a mind of it's own and a body that is, ultimately, not under our control. You can't force the numbers. You do your best. A dose may give you great numbers -- until it doesn't. And then it does, 3 weeks later.