3.21 Frankie PMPS 288 +2 333 +4 248
- Thread starter Jay
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Deb & Spot
Very Active Member
Re: 3.20 Frankie AMPS 309
Good morning Jay. I hope that the dose increase will bring Frankie better numbers. Good luck you two and happy Caturday!
Good morning Jay. I hope that the dose increase will bring Frankie better numbers. Good luck you two and happy Caturday!
Dyana
Very Active Member
Re: 3.20 Frankie AMPS 309 PMPS 384
Jay, if you Reply to the last post in your condo when making additions (like posting test results, or making comments, or asking questions), rather than Editing the first post of the day, not only does it make more sense to us because the first post would be your post to report his AMPS and then there would be posted replys to that and then further down would be your next test and replys, etc. Beginning of the day is at the top, middle of the day in the middle, and end of the day is at the bottom. Sorry, that's just the way we all are used to seeing condos. The way yours is today, I have to keep checking the first post to see if you made any changes to it.
Take look at my condo, and see how we post in cronilogical sp? order.
I hope you see some action tomorrow, I really do. Maybe, this is "the high before the low". It happens like that sometimes.
So, you shot at +10, tonight. What + number are you planning on shooting at tomorrow morning? To get back to your previous schedule, you're going to need to adjust by 2 hours now.
Jay, if you Reply to the last post in your condo when making additions (like posting test results, or making comments, or asking questions), rather than Editing the first post of the day, not only does it make more sense to us because the first post would be your post to report his AMPS and then there would be posted replys to that and then further down would be your next test and replys, etc. Beginning of the day is at the top, middle of the day in the middle, and end of the day is at the bottom. Sorry, that's just the way we all are used to seeing condos. The way yours is today, I have to keep checking the first post to see if you made any changes to it.
Take look at my condo, and see how we post in cronilogical sp? order.
I hope you see some action tomorrow, I really do. Maybe, this is "the high before the low". It happens like that sometimes.
So, you shot at +10, tonight. What + number are you planning on shooting at tomorrow morning? To get back to your previous schedule, you're going to need to adjust by 2 hours now.
Jay
Active Member
Re: 3.20 Frankie AMPS 309 PMPS 384
They both passed on yet another can FF.
Frankie was nibbling when I gave him his shot and has dropped over the past 4 ours down to 189. After I gave him his does, he walked away from his food. I'm good with that and I'm home in case, the rest of the food is still in his bowl, which is why he is dropping at the rate he is. No food in since early AM and a load of insulin without any food onboard is as you know, like drinking alcohol on an empty stomach for us beans.
I gave him his dose when he needed it tonite, not per the protocol (regardless of 12/12 not shooting at 384 is like denying him the meds he needs to follow protocol) and if it means dosing him tomorrow at at +14 or at +12 so be it. I am very very uncomfortable shooting a the low levels that I see people dose their cats here. Its scares me to death for obvious reasons. The point being that if he drops to much lower levels and we can get some duration out of this then I'm not quite certain when he will be ready for a doser if I should shoot at +12 (unless I know he is rising and he eats without walking away from it)
If I ditch the rest of the food, and dont allow him to nibble through the nite (I know he and his brother will get back to the bowl somethime during the nigt) that will keep the insulin's effectiveness in tact. If I let him nibble it will do the opposite. He has been too high for so long that I'm inclined to throw the food out which means that he mayl be too low in AM for me to be comfortable with a dose. Add to that I wouldnt know how much to dose at under 220 as we have only been there 1x in the past two weeks since the switch.
This is terribly frustrating for me, and worse not good for him and I was ready to throw the vial out earlier today, and pull out the dregs of several vials of PZI Vet, till I could get to the vet for another insulin, on Monday. No I didnt throw the vial out, but you can only imagine what was going through my mind.
I know you all here only have had good intentions through all of this and its my frustration and anger at myself that you hear here sometimes. I started this with too low a dose for that dose to be effective, other then to raise his 14day and 30day BG average. Raising the dose by .25 units every 5 or 6 days would translate to about 4 to 6 weeks for a 1 unit increase.Although Lantus isnt PZI, to drop from 3.0 to 3.2 units of PZI, to 2 units of Lantus, didnt help and only prolonged the inevitalbe of us finding the right dose, at which point the protocol would kick in nicely. For that I most angry with myself.
Jay
They both passed on yet another can FF.
Frankie was nibbling when I gave him his shot and has dropped over the past 4 ours down to 189. After I gave him his does, he walked away from his food. I'm good with that and I'm home in case, the rest of the food is still in his bowl, which is why he is dropping at the rate he is. No food in since early AM and a load of insulin without any food onboard is as you know, like drinking alcohol on an empty stomach for us beans.
I gave him his dose when he needed it tonite, not per the protocol (regardless of 12/12 not shooting at 384 is like denying him the meds he needs to follow protocol) and if it means dosing him tomorrow at at +14 or at +12 so be it. I am very very uncomfortable shooting a the low levels that I see people dose their cats here. Its scares me to death for obvious reasons. The point being that if he drops to much lower levels and we can get some duration out of this then I'm not quite certain when he will be ready for a doser if I should shoot at +12 (unless I know he is rising and he eats without walking away from it)
If I ditch the rest of the food, and dont allow him to nibble through the nite (I know he and his brother will get back to the bowl somethime during the nigt) that will keep the insulin's effectiveness in tact. If I let him nibble it will do the opposite. He has been too high for so long that I'm inclined to throw the food out which means that he mayl be too low in AM for me to be comfortable with a dose. Add to that I wouldnt know how much to dose at under 220 as we have only been there 1x in the past two weeks since the switch.
This is terribly frustrating for me, and worse not good for him and I was ready to throw the vial out earlier today, and pull out the dregs of several vials of PZI Vet, till I could get to the vet for another insulin, on Monday. No I didnt throw the vial out, but you can only imagine what was going through my mind.
I know you all here only have had good intentions through all of this and its my frustration and anger at myself that you hear here sometimes. I started this with too low a dose for that dose to be effective, other then to raise his 14day and 30day BG average. Raising the dose by .25 units every 5 or 6 days would translate to about 4 to 6 weeks for a 1 unit increase.Although Lantus isnt PZI, to drop from 3.0 to 3.2 units of PZI, to 2 units of Lantus, didnt help and only prolonged the inevitalbe of us finding the right dose, at which point the protocol would kick in nicely. For that I most angry with myself.
Jay
Dyana said:
Jay
Active Member
Re: 3.20 Frankie AMPS 309 PMPS 384
I am watching him.
I dont know how anyone here can call shooting at 384 at +10 when he started the day at 309 an increase in dose. I dont get it. What I do get is that to leave my boy at 384 when he started the day at 309 is like denying him the meds (insulin he needs, to control his sugar) This is not about getting him to walk away from insulin its about keeping him alive. As you know a diabetic cat or human without exogenous insulin is, well, you remember what you thought and heard when you heard the words. Giving him insulin when he needs it is to me more important then letting him sit at such high levels. Not to do so for the sake of protocol is almost like "Cat Abuse".
I guarantee you though this, that if he didnt walk away from his food, (3/4 of the can is still in his bowl 5 hours later) that he wouldnt have dropped this steeply.
See what I mean about the anger and frustration. Sometimes I think that if the protcol said, lets jump of the roof, we all would.
I am watching him.
I dont know how anyone here can call shooting at 384 at +10 when he started the day at 309 an increase in dose. I dont get it. What I do get is that to leave my boy at 384 when he started the day at 309 is like denying him the meds (insulin he needs, to control his sugar) This is not about getting him to walk away from insulin its about keeping him alive. As you know a diabetic cat or human without exogenous insulin is, well, you remember what you thought and heard when you heard the words. Giving him insulin when he needs it is to me more important then letting him sit at such high levels. Not to do so for the sake of protocol is almost like "Cat Abuse".
I guarantee you though this, that if he didnt walk away from his food, (3/4 of the can is still in his bowl 5 hours later) that he wouldnt have dropped this steeply.
See what I mean about the anger and frustration. Sometimes I think that if the protcol said, lets jump of the roof, we all would.
Dyana said:
Jay
Active Member
Re: 3.20 Frankie AMPS 309 PMPS 384
When he eats in the middle of a cycle, unless he is peaking (close to or at Nadir) when the last dose that got in is at its most effectiveness it destroys that effectiveness (remember what a curve looks like, as soon as the botton is reached the shot is losing strength)
If he eats late in the cycle, the carbs (even though its lo carb FF) plus the fact that shot has passed its most effective point (the nadir) will cause his numbers to rise faster then if there was no food going in.
Food and Dose is a balancing act as one counteracts the other.
Which is exactly why, I dont think that shooting early when, (very late in the cycle) when is numbers are on the rise (particularly at over 300, not sure about shooting at 60 + though) and food is going in, was always relatively safe, but certainly not protocol.
Hopefully when I wake up in the morning the food will be gone, which is another reason he wont eat at shot time. He's full.
When he was a few years younger and we began this 'sugar dance" I'd pop a top, he'd bury his head in the bowl, seeminlgly inhaling the food and I'd give him his shot. Now that they both have gotten older both their eating habits have really changed. Who else but their dad could see that.
When he eats in the middle of a cycle, unless he is peaking (close to or at Nadir) when the last dose that got in is at its most effectiveness it destroys that effectiveness (remember what a curve looks like, as soon as the botton is reached the shot is losing strength)
If he eats late in the cycle, the carbs (even though its lo carb FF) plus the fact that shot has passed its most effective point (the nadir) will cause his numbers to rise faster then if there was no food going in.
Food and Dose is a balancing act as one counteracts the other.
Which is exactly why, I dont think that shooting early when, (very late in the cycle) when is numbers are on the rise (particularly at over 300, not sure about shooting at 60 + though) and food is going in, was always relatively safe, but certainly not protocol.
Hopefully when I wake up in the morning the food will be gone, which is another reason he wont eat at shot time. He's full.
When he was a few years younger and we began this 'sugar dance" I'd pop a top, he'd bury his head in the bowl, seeminlgly inhaling the food and I'd give him his shot. Now that they both have gotten older both their eating habits have really changed. Who else but their dad could see that.
Dyana said:
carolynandlatte
Very Active Member
Re: 3.20 Frankie AMPS 309 PMPS 384
Hi Jay,
Im going to be honest here. I hesitate to say anything because your frustration (understandably so) may keep you from hearing what Im saying. But I decided it was more important for me to put it out there and be wrong, or have you look the other way than ignore it...just in case you or someone else may benefit.
One great concern I have over the last week is the feeding issue. I dont know exactly how much you are feeding, but it sounds as if - from your posts- Frankie may be getting barely 1 can of ff/day? Sometimes vomiting? Or maybe that was just one day? Anyway, I want to caution you about not feeding enough and how it can lead to fatty liver disease. FLD is very serious and life threatening w/o aggressive tx (often hospitalization and feeding tubes). Here is a link with some information: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1&aid=217 You can google cats and fatty liver to get hundreds more articles.
I could be wrong, but isnt not having enough food part of the recipe for ketones?
Not feeding can cause big drops leading to rebounds into higher numbers. You can look at Latte's a.m. cycles and see that happen nearly every day. The drop Frankie experienced tonight, will probably bring you higher numbers later tonight or in the a.m. Just to give you a heads up on that.
Finally, its important to leave food out when gone, and overnight in case they do go too low (which you are not sure of because there are no mid day checks on the last dose). We need to give them the ability to take care of themselves. If they cant, they could end up in the situation you (and all of us) fear so much - hypo.
Its apparent from your posts ff is not a hit. Maybe its time to switch to something they will enjoy liking. I sure would hate to eat lima beans my entire life! :lol:
Best of luck to you and Frankie.
ETA: Latte often takes up to 1 hr after shot to eat 1/8th-1/4 3oz can in the a.m. 2hrs to typically eat 3/4 can...its too slow to keep her from dropping fast.
Hi Jay,
Im going to be honest here. I hesitate to say anything because your frustration (understandably so) may keep you from hearing what Im saying. But I decided it was more important for me to put it out there and be wrong, or have you look the other way than ignore it...just in case you or someone else may benefit.
One great concern I have over the last week is the feeding issue. I dont know exactly how much you are feeding, but it sounds as if - from your posts- Frankie may be getting barely 1 can of ff/day? Sometimes vomiting? Or maybe that was just one day? Anyway, I want to caution you about not feeding enough and how it can lead to fatty liver disease. FLD is very serious and life threatening w/o aggressive tx (often hospitalization and feeding tubes). Here is a link with some information: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1&aid=217 You can google cats and fatty liver to get hundreds more articles.
I could be wrong, but isnt not having enough food part of the recipe for ketones?
Not feeding can cause big drops leading to rebounds into higher numbers. You can look at Latte's a.m. cycles and see that happen nearly every day. The drop Frankie experienced tonight, will probably bring you higher numbers later tonight or in the a.m. Just to give you a heads up on that.
Finally, its important to leave food out when gone, and overnight in case they do go too low (which you are not sure of because there are no mid day checks on the last dose). We need to give them the ability to take care of themselves. If they cant, they could end up in the situation you (and all of us) fear so much - hypo.
Its apparent from your posts ff is not a hit. Maybe its time to switch to something they will enjoy liking. I sure would hate to eat lima beans my entire life! :lol:
Best of luck to you and Frankie.
ETA: Latte often takes up to 1 hr after shot to eat 1/8th-1/4 3oz can in the a.m. 2hrs to typically eat 3/4 can...its too slow to keep her from dropping fast.
Dyana
Very Active Member
Re: 3.20 Frankie AMPS 309 PMPS 384
I feed 1/4 can of FF for main meals (2 in the morning and 2 at night); and when I'm home, lots of 1/8 can minimeals in between. J.D. inhales every one of them. When I leave for work; I set a timed feeder for +4 and +6, and I leave out a frozen can of FF to slowly thaw. I may feed too much, but I'd rather it be there for him, if he needs it. I often, but not always, leave out food at night, too, or feed right before I go to bed.
Have you tried adding some tuna on top of his FF to entice him? Or, another LC topping? My cats absolutely love FortiFlora sprinkled on top, and they love crumbled freeze dried salmon or chicken on top of their FF, too. I also, sometimes feed them some boiled chicken breast, or grilled steak (without flavorings), too. If Frankie doesn't like the new FF pates, maybe he'll like the 9 lives LC varieties. I wish you luck in finding food he'll happily eat.
And yes, not eating is one of the ingredients for DKA.
I feed 1/4 can of FF for main meals (2 in the morning and 2 at night); and when I'm home, lots of 1/8 can minimeals in between. J.D. inhales every one of them. When I leave for work; I set a timed feeder for +4 and +6, and I leave out a frozen can of FF to slowly thaw. I may feed too much, but I'd rather it be there for him, if he needs it. I often, but not always, leave out food at night, too, or feed right before I go to bed.
Have you tried adding some tuna on top of his FF to entice him? Or, another LC topping? My cats absolutely love FortiFlora sprinkled on top, and they love crumbled freeze dried salmon or chicken on top of their FF, too. I also, sometimes feed them some boiled chicken breast, or grilled steak (without flavorings), too. If Frankie doesn't like the new FF pates, maybe he'll like the 9 lives LC varieties. I wish you luck in finding food he'll happily eat.
And yes, not eating is one of the ingredients for DKA.
carolynandlatte
Very Active Member
Re: 3.20 Frankie AMPS 309 PMPS 384
There are other foods than ff.
I have an innappetant cat, whom I assist fed for 9 months.
Sometimes you have to go out and buy a bunch of random stuff to try. Their tastes change.
There are other foods than ff.
I have an innappetant cat, whom I assist fed for 9 months.
Sometimes you have to go out and buy a bunch of random stuff to try. Their tastes change.
Jay
Active Member
Re: 3.20 Frankie AMPS 309 PMPS 384
I have my list (printed Janet adn Binky's chart) higlighted (other then Fish) brands and flavors under 5% (there arent many)
Tomorrow its shopping for cat multi brands adn flavors of cat food.
I know I'll be thorwing away a lot.
I dont think my guys are inappetant, just that FF from batch to batch and flavor to flavor, the consistency between and among them has been way way off. Suspecting what the manufacturers do or dont do, doesnt really help.
To the store in the AM
Jay
I have my list (printed Janet adn Binky's chart) higlighted (other then Fish) brands and flavors under 5% (there arent many)
Tomorrow its shopping for cat multi brands adn flavors of cat food.
I know I'll be thorwing away a lot.
I dont think my guys are inappetant, just that FF from batch to batch and flavor to flavor, the consistency between and among them has been way way off. Suspecting what the manufacturers do or dont do, doesnt really help.
To the store in the AM
Jay
carolynandlatte said:
Hillary & Maui (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: 3.20 Frankie AMPS 309 PMPS 384
Jay - if you are using FF with the new labels, there are several threads on health discussing the problems with the new FF. It seems that whatever formula changes happened, there are many cats who no longer like FF.
So, rather than get frustrated, why not buy a different brand of food and try that.
Maybe even try purchasing raw food - They come in frozen medallions and patties and who knows maybe your cats will like it - One brand to look for is Nature Variety - just don't buy the chicken (as it is recalled).
I feed a combination of foods to my cats and some things are more popular than others. I'm also trying a new food (at least to us) called Nature's Logic and so far my cats seem to like it. It's high in protein, low carb and as it seems to be a very dense product, I add lots of water to it to loosen it up and make it more puree like.
Additionally, I also free feed the canned food and when Maui was on insulin, I would serve meals, but then leave food out between meals. I didn't pay a lot of attention to when she ate and I tested and it did work out for her.
Something else you may not realize - when you change the time of the dose - for example shooting at +10 - that is also considered a dose increase. And if you shoot next at the regular +12 time - then that would be considered a dose decrease.
So, if you increased the dose AND shot at +10 - then you essentially gave 2 dose increases.
What + time do you plan to shoot in the am? The new time (based on your +10) or the oldtime (based on what your 12/12 was?) If you shoot at the old time - then you are giving a dose decrease as you are shooting 2 hours later than before.
Again, this means that you are dose hopping. And I know you've been told this several times, but when using lantus - consistency is key.
Does this make sense?
Jay - if you are using FF with the new labels, there are several threads on health discussing the problems with the new FF. It seems that whatever formula changes happened, there are many cats who no longer like FF.
So, rather than get frustrated, why not buy a different brand of food and try that.
Maybe even try purchasing raw food - They come in frozen medallions and patties and who knows maybe your cats will like it - One brand to look for is Nature Variety - just don't buy the chicken (as it is recalled).
I feed a combination of foods to my cats and some things are more popular than others. I'm also trying a new food (at least to us) called Nature's Logic and so far my cats seem to like it. It's high in protein, low carb and as it seems to be a very dense product, I add lots of water to it to loosen it up and make it more puree like.
Additionally, I also free feed the canned food and when Maui was on insulin, I would serve meals, but then leave food out between meals. I didn't pay a lot of attention to when she ate and I tested and it did work out for her.
Something else you may not realize - when you change the time of the dose - for example shooting at +10 - that is also considered a dose increase. And if you shoot next at the regular +12 time - then that would be considered a dose decrease.
So, if you increased the dose AND shot at +10 - then you essentially gave 2 dose increases.
What + time do you plan to shoot in the am? The new time (based on your +10) or the oldtime (based on what your 12/12 was?) If you shoot at the old time - then you are giving a dose decrease as you are shooting 2 hours later than before.
Again, this means that you are dose hopping. And I know you've been told this several times, but when using lantus - consistency is key.
Does this make sense?
Jay
Active Member
Re: 3.20 Frankie AMPS 309 PMPS 384
If per the protocol, shooting early +10 or +8 is considered a dose increase, by what percentage did I increase the dose, so that I can dose him at that level from here on out, as that increase, as you define shooting early, apparently was the dose that brought him down to a reasonable level. This will avoid my "dose hopping" and give him the correct amount of insulin so that late in the cycle, his numbers arent rising,
If per the protocol, shooting early +10 or +8 is considered a dose increase, by what percentage did I increase the dose, so that I can dose him at that level from here on out, as that increase, as you define shooting early, apparently was the dose that brought him down to a reasonable level. This will avoid my "dose hopping" and give him the correct amount of insulin so that late in the cycle, his numbers arent rising,
Jay said:
Re: 3.20 Frankie AMPS 309 PMPS 384
There is no way to know what percentage a time change alters dose - hence the problem. However, if you shot 2 hours early, your new shot time is 12 hours from that early shot and you are off schedule for your work week. I hope this does not mean that you are now shooting at your regular time. If so, it would mean you are now shooting 2 hours late. If this is in fact the case, it is not surprising that Frankie's numbers are not to your liking. I really wonder if your speculation about going back to an insulin that is based on an intermediate duration, like PZI, may be better suited to your needs and lifestyle and the way you think about insulin use. It may be something you want to give some serious thought to since Lantus really does need consistency to work best. It seems like the pharmacology of Lantus is just getting you frustrated which isn't good for you or Frankie.
There is no way to know what percentage a time change alters dose - hence the problem. However, if you shot 2 hours early, your new shot time is 12 hours from that early shot and you are off schedule for your work week. I hope this does not mean that you are now shooting at your regular time. If so, it would mean you are now shooting 2 hours late. If this is in fact the case, it is not surprising that Frankie's numbers are not to your liking. I really wonder if your speculation about going back to an insulin that is based on an intermediate duration, like PZI, may be better suited to your needs and lifestyle and the way you think about insulin use. It may be something you want to give some serious thought to since Lantus really does need consistency to work best. It seems like the pharmacology of Lantus is just getting you frustrated which isn't good for you or Frankie.
Deb & Spot
Very Active Member
Re: 3.21 Frankie AMPS 222 +2 355 +4 310 +6 302
I'm sorry you are having such a hard time with Frankie, Jay. I can totally understand your frustration, really I can. I have no advise on dosing or feeding schedules, or anything like that for Frankie, since every cat is different and what works for Spot may not work for Frankie.
I did want to give you a few suggestions on food tho. There are many brands of Sophisticat, PetSmart's brand that are very low in carbs. I have been feeding those to Spot for well over a year and a half. I have two other kitties, one will eat anything and the other is a total picky eater. She will only eat FF, doesn't matter what kind, but it has to be FF. Just recently I switched up food for Spot. He's getting the "By Nature Organics", which is also sold at Petsmart. Spot really really likes this. Maybe you can try those brands and see what Frankie likes. You can also get freeze dried Chicken at Petsmart, in the dog treat section, and sprinkle some of that on top of the food. When Spot was feeling ill and wouldn't eat, I tried that and his appy picked up.
Best of luck to Frankie and your quest for food!!
I'm sorry you are having such a hard time with Frankie, Jay. I can totally understand your frustration, really I can. I have no advise on dosing or feeding schedules, or anything like that for Frankie, since every cat is different and what works for Spot may not work for Frankie.
I did want to give you a few suggestions on food tho. There are many brands of Sophisticat, PetSmart's brand that are very low in carbs. I have been feeding those to Spot for well over a year and a half. I have two other kitties, one will eat anything and the other is a total picky eater. She will only eat FF, doesn't matter what kind, but it has to be FF. Just recently I switched up food for Spot. He's getting the "By Nature Organics", which is also sold at Petsmart. Spot really really likes this. Maybe you can try those brands and see what Frankie likes. You can also get freeze dried Chicken at Petsmart, in the dog treat section, and sprinkle some of that on top of the food. When Spot was feeling ill and wouldn't eat, I tried that and his appy picked up.
Best of luck to Frankie and your quest for food!!
Jay
Active Member
Re: 3.21 Frankie AMPS 222 +2 355 +4 310 +6 302
I picked up a dozen or so cans of assorted Brands and Flavors earlier today.
Lets see which ones they eat w/o spewing.
Hopefully I can land on a Brand and Flavor tonite that they devour.
Then its back to the store to pick up a case or two.
The sugar dance goes on.
Thanks
Jay
I picked up a dozen or so cans of assorted Brands and Flavors earlier today.
Lets see which ones they eat w/o spewing.
Hopefully I can land on a Brand and Flavor tonite that they devour.
Then its back to the store to pick up a case or two.
The sugar dance goes on.
Thanks
Jay
Deb & Spot said:
Jay
Active Member
Helene & Tizon
Very Active Member
Re: 3.21 Frankie PMPS 288
I second everything Sienne said.
Lantus works, but it's not instantaneous. It requires the bean to follow specific instructions. I hear your frustration, however, you have to give us a chance.
I second everything Sienne said.
Lantus works, but it's not instantaneous. It requires the bean to follow specific instructions. I hear your frustration, however, you have to give us a chance.
Jay
Active Member
Re: 3.21 Frankie PMPS 288
It might work and drop him to less severe numbers, and I'm trying to get it to work.
The idea of consistency makes a lot of sense to me, however, it makes sense to me only with a dosage amount that does what its supposed to do. Gentle drops, long duration, lower PS's and Nadirs. Do you see that anywhere in his numbers? Maybe 1 or 2 cycles at most out of 14 days.
It might work and drop him to less severe numbers, and I'm trying to get it to work.
The idea of consistency makes a lot of sense to me, however, it makes sense to me only with a dosage amount that does what its supposed to do. Gentle drops, long duration, lower PS's and Nadirs. Do you see that anywhere in his numbers? Maybe 1 or 2 cycles at most out of 14 days.
Helene & Tizon said:
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