3/20 Tugger PMPS 91,+13 100, +13.5 102, +14 117

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Marvie and Tugger

Marvie and Tugger

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Yesterday's condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9609&p=95617#p95617

I couldn't get a +11 or 11.5 because I had to go pick the teen up from his overnight. He went from 175 at +10 to 214 at preshot.

Day two of no kibble!

He did have canned food for breakfast at the +10 because I didn't know better and we've been feeding before his shot all along, so I gather from yesterday's condo that his numbers went up due to breakfast? I will make the food schedule changes starting with dinner tonight, but I think this is going to mean I will need to start pushing his dose time earlier because they are VERY used to being fed when the boy gets up for school. The grown kitties understand about weekends, but the kitten doesn't, so either way he's going to be yelling at me by 6am if there's no food lol. I'll need advice on that because I've never changed his time on purpose. There have been a couple of times he was shot late because we weren't home or I was involved in something and didn't notice the time, but I've never adjusted incrementally and I'm not sure how to go about doing it the proper way.

I shot, again not sure I should have given the whole dose, but the dose was a tiny bit skinny because I had a stubborn bubble. If I hadn't been looking at the syringe pictures yesterday I wouldn't have known what "skinny" meant, very happy those pictures are there!

I'll check him obsessively again today, because I'm so darned nervous about this. Should I try to do the checks on hours I didn't check the past two days or should I stick to something like how I did it yesterday?

I've made SO many mistakes with Tugger, his meds, his timing, everything. I feel like a bad mom. I'm going to get all of this figured out though, and I am VERY grateful you are all here and willing to educate. I love this silly kitty from the tips of his very tender little ears all the way to the tip of his crooked tail, and I want to do this right and get him healthy. So thank you all for your help and patience with this newbie and all of my screwups.

AMPS 214
+2 118
+4 96
+5 95
+6 87
+8 109
Dinner would normally have been fed at +10 but all food was removed at that time instead.
PMPS 91
+13 100
+13.5 102
+14 117
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger AMPS 214

your test times yesterday are good!
You can alternate times, but I would always make sure the +3 and +6 are in there.



Don't beat yourself up - we've all been there, and we learned thru this board and others experiences.

PS: nice job on new condo!
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger AMPS 214

There is probably a bit of food behind this number but even if Tugger was still at 175, this is a safe number to shoot. Please get at least a +2 so you have some idea which direction his numbers are heading. Remember that you don't want to change the dose unless Tugger's numbers dictate a dose reduction.

As far as time changes, how much do you need to alter the time? It is safe to gradually alter time in 15 min. increments each cycle. However, an earlier shot time acts like a dose increase. So here's what I would suggest. If Tugger has pre-shot values that are over 200, you can decrease each cycle. If his numbers are under 200, decrease only one cycle per day. Given how well he is responding to the food change, I don't want to get you in a position where you are overly influencing a drop in numbers and not keeping Tugger safe.

You might want to think about a timed feeder if your crew is used to having food available for grazing. Lots of people here use a 5-compartment feeder. It will allow you to put canned food out throughout the day and night without having to constantly open cans throughout the day.
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger AMPS 214

Sienne and Gabby said:
There is probably a bit of food behind this number but even if Tugger was still at 175, this is a safe number to shoot. Please get at least a +2 so you have some idea which direction his numbers are heading. Remember that you don't want to change the dose unless Tugger's numbers dictate a dose reduction.

As far as time changes, how much do you need to alter the time? It is safe to gradually alter time in 15 min. increments each cycle. However, an earlier shot time acts like a dose increase. So here's what I would suggest. If Tugger has pre-shot values that are over 200, you can decrease each cycle. If his numbers are under 200, decrease only one cycle per day. Given how well he is responding to the food change, I don't want to get you in a position where you are overly influencing a drop in numbers and not keeping Tugger safe.

You might want to think about a timed feeder if your crew is used to having food available for grazing. Lots of people here use a 5-compartment feeder. It will allow you to put canned food out throughout the day and night without having to constantly open cans throughout the day.
Click to expand...

OK, I will get a +2 and we'll go from there =)

They normally eat breakfast between 5:30 and 6am on weekdays, so I need to get the shot time moved up somewhere close to that I guess? I'm thinking maybe 7 instead of 8:45(current) I'm generally up on my own by 7am if I go to bed at normal times and someone is usually home at 7pm as that is our average dinner time. I think the kitties can adjust to a 7am feeding instead of 6am much easier than going from 6am to almost 9am and I can adjust to a 7/7 shot schedule pretty easily.

So if I understand correctly...

If tonight's ps number is over 200 I can give at 8:30pm instead of 8:45 and if the am ps is over 200 I can go with 8:15am.

I think if it's under 200 I'll only do the time change in the am so I can keep an eye on his numbers, so if tonight's number is under 200 I would give at normal time but tomorrow morning I could do 15 mins earlier. (If I understand and made all the right connections in my brain, it's still early and I am not good with numbers on a good day)
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger AMPS 214

You might want to think about a timed feeder if your crew is used to having food available for grazing. Lots of people here use a 5-compartment feeder. It will allow you to put canned food out throughout the day and night without having to constantly open cans throughout the day.
Click to expand...

Do people with multiple cats use these timed feeders? I could see how it would be ideal if I only had Tugger, but we have 5 kitties who all eat whenever they feel like it. We've been on a modified free-feed schedule for their whole lives. By modified I mean that I put out a measured amount and it stayed till it was gone but bowls weren't refilled till dinner, we never removed the food at a certain time. Very rarely they clear the bowls between meals, usually only if we feed one meal earlier than usual. They started clearing the bowls dry earlier this week (spring fever making them hungry?) and actually eating the wet food when offered, which is why I started offering the wet more often a few days ago and then took the kibble away yesterday.

I just had a thought... since they are used to having food available overnight, I could leave the wet food out overnight and have the boy pick it up when he gets up for school, then I can test/feed/shoot at 730am (I can set an alarm to get me up to remove it on weekends.) That would take care of the no food two hours before breakfast and still let them have food overnight. Then we could take the bowls away at 5:30pm to have the two hours before the pm shot.

Maybe once we've been at this wet food deal a while they will learn to come eat when it's put out, but I suspect we're going to have to continue to do this manually. I don't mind for right now, I'm home and have no commitments so I can deal with it. Multiple cats are HARD lol. At least, multiple cats are hard when they all have different needs. I should figure out where to introduce the rest of our crew...
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger AMPS 214

I carried this over from yesterday's condo =)
Welcome Marvie & Tugger! I can't add any dosing advice (wait for the experienced people). It seems that everyone who replied to your original posts has answered most of your other questions. So I will just say, Welcome! Oh, one thing I might be able to suggest: if you shoot insulin into the scruff apparently it isn't absorbed as well. I shoot down on the shoulder (where the skin is easy to tent up) and I alternate shoulders. It seems to work fine. I also give the shot when Stu is eating: his head is in the bowl and he doesn't even notice the shot.
Good luck with Tugger. I am very glad that you are healthy again and that your life is getting back in order.

Ella & Stu
Click to expand...

Thank you for the welcome! I don't generally shoot in the scruff anymore, we did early on but I figured out pretty quickly that his numbers were nicer if I shot in his flank or belly so that's where I normally do it. Last night I shot the scruff only because I was kind of scared about his low numbers and I hoped it might help keep him from dropping too low. Dunno if it helped, but it made me feel better about shooting with a lower number than I'm used to. I haven't tried shooting while he eats, but only because I was doing the feeding schedule all wrong up till now. Honestly, he takes the shot pretty well. He'll make a bit of noise if I shoot too fast or if the insulin is too cold but he handles shots well. It's the ear poking he's getting grumpy about at this point ;) I gave him kitty crack (bonita flakes) after his amps and his motor went crazy, so I'm going to take the jar of crack with me when I go to get his +2 in a while. Might make him tolerate it better if he sees the crack and knows he'll get a bit when we're done.
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger AMPS 214, +2 118

Just to clarify, it's absolutely no problem to move one shot per day 15 min. in either direction. Given that Tugger is getting great numbers, I want to be careful with moving shots earlier. So if you have any question about moving the 2nd shot early, don't shift the time. (Is that clearer?)

I have 2 cats and use a 2 bin timed feeder. I'm honestly not sure what others who have many more kitties around do. I'm also not home during the work week so unless I can hurry home at noon, I need a way to leave food. If you or one of the family are around to make sure there's food out, it's less of an issue. BTW, you may want to add water to the canned food. Especially if you are going to leave food out overnight (good solution with the kids picking up bowls!), adding water will keep it from drying out. Another option is to make "catsickles." I mix wet food with water so it's soupy and then freeze it in ice cube trays. I can leave a couple out and they gradually melt and stay fresh.

Photos that you link to your signature are a great way to introduce the family. (I talk about my civie in my condo all the time and there are photos in my sig of both of my guys.)

Please get a +3. That's a lovely drop into blue numbers. I want to make sure there's not too much momentum behind it though. I'm presuming you have HC wet food in the house?
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger AMPS 214, +2 118

'Morning, isn't it nice that kitties are so easy to bribe. :lol: I get Tess up for testing and she actually purrs in anticipation of the treat.

Just look at the pretty numbers that you are getting already. I think you're going to get a handle on all this really soon.

ed: goofed up that first sentence
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger AMPS 214, +2 118, +4 96

96 is not bad, I can handle 96 =)

I do have high carb wet food, I have him a tiny bit last night when he dropped low and I got nervous and boy was he a happy boy =) So I have the rest of it wrapped up in the fridge plus more in the bin with his supplies. I also taught youngerson how to test yesterday and explained that if he gets a number under 200 when I'm not home he should call me to find out when I will be home before he shoots so I can decide what to do. I showed him where the supplies are and what to use for what reasons and showed him the binder where I printed and stuck everything (with colored tabs and everything!) so he can find it if he can't remember. I figured it would be good to have for him and hubby since they aren't going to sit here and read all the info like I have. I may be the main caretaker, but they've got to know what to do if Mama isn't home. (Rare, but it happens :shock: )
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger AMPS 214, +2 118, +4 96, +5 95, +6 87

Looking pretty good. I have to go out for about two hours (leaving in 15 mins), should I have the boy test him during that time or do you think it can wait till I get home? Boomer has a playdate with his Great Dane friends that is desperately needed. I've shown the boy how to do it but he has not actually done it yet. I'm thinking we should be heading for an up-slope soon.
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger PMPS 91 what to do?

Tugger kind of has me in shock... I obviously don't shoot now. But what do I do? This is a pretty perfect number. I fed his usual wet dinner because there was about to be a revolt. All five of them were about to eat me alive. I have witnesses ;)

I forgot to update above, his +8 was 109 his ss is current.
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger PMPS 91 what to do?

sorry Marvie, it's unusually quiet here tonight. Do you still need help, or what did you decide to do? If you haven't shot yet, can you test again now and post the number?
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger PMPS 91 what to do?

+13 100

I put out wet food an hour ago, there's still quite a bit left in spite of the fact that the cats are all telling me they are starving to death. Tugger ate some though, I did see him eating but not sure how much if it he ate and how much the others ate.

They are all begging for kibble now, they keep going to the closet where it's kept and yelling at me. I may have to move it out of the house to get some peace and quiet ;)

So it's an hour past normal shot time and he's only at 100. Check again in an hour? a half hour? It is on the rise...
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger PMPS 91 what to do? 100 now 1h past shot time

since you're fairly new to us, how about stalling for another 1/2 hour? That will let us know whether the rise is from food or because it's just time to rise. You'll be shooting numbers like this later, but for tonight it might be better to stall a little bit.
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger PMPS 91 what to do? 100 now 1h past shot time

I was hoping someone would say that. It got a little nerve wracking last night. If I'm going to shoot with a low number I'd really rather it be a daytime cycle so I can watch him every minute. Last night proves I can't be trusted overnight lol.
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger PMPS 91 what to do? 100 now 1h past shot time

If he ate before the last test, that could account for some of the rise. Which means that you don't really know where he is . The board is quiet tonight, try to test in 15 or 30 and someone experienced should get to you soon. Ah, there's Libby right on que.
 
Re: 3/20 Tugger PMPS 91 what to do? 100 now 1h past shot time

He ate a bit, probably just a couple of tbs worth from the looks of the plate I saw him over. He often surfs all the plates though, it's the only area he really tries to be Alpha, so if he had a tbs from each plate...

I had company over and wasn't watching him every second.

I wish I had a place where I could feed the other four and not him, but with Boomer, the only room I can feed cats is the kitchen and we draw the line at cats on counters (when we catch them anyway :lol: ) so feeding them up high where Tug can't jump isn't an option, and there's nowhere but the kitchen that has a high enough spot that the dog can't also get to with minimal effort. I could keep him in a room alone while they eat I guess, I could then get four of them off my case about the food and hopefully get a more accurate number from him. (the 91 was no food 2 1/2 hours before test) The 100 was with whatever little he got in while I was talking and not paying attention to the situation, I set the food down and kept him apart from it while testing but I honestly expected his number to be high enough to shoot so I figured once the test was done and I released him he'd go for the food and I'd go for the Lantus... but I was distracted and didn't look at the meter till it shut off and by the time I got it back on he'd eaten. ohmygod_smile
 
So we're two hours past shot time and he's still only at 117. I'm still not sure what to do. I know I'm not comfortable shooting 4.5 units this low, this is in normal range. Should I give him something to keep him from loosing his shed though? I'd like to prevent him from spiking and plummeting if I can, while, you know... sleeping and stuff once in a while.
 
you were looking to move his shot time earlier, weren't you? If that's the case, then one way we can handle that is to skip tonight, and shoot at whatever you want his new schedule to be in the morning.

Or, you can shoot something now but then this will be your new schedule.

Normally when we work up to our doses methodically, I would say it's safe to shoot full dose at this number. However, we really don't have any data yet to be able to do that, and don't have data for how you increased your dose. Therefore, I'm not comfortable suggesting full dose at this number. Something in the neighborhood of 3 units should be ok.

It's up to you. If you do want to move your schedule, this is a good opportunity to do that.
 
That sounds like a good plan. I would like his new shot schedule to be 7:30 am/pm. Not a fan of having an 11 or 12 schedule, those are times of day I'd be sleeping out out if I have things to do. Yes, I think I'm much more comfortable skipping it and starting a new schedule.

So on that note, would you suggest mid night checks or can I leave his poor ears alone for the night? If I put the wet food back down and freshen it up a bit before bed, I think he'd go eat as needed. He's always been a grazer and he's pretty good about getting up to eat in the night (probably because he sleeps by my feet and every time I kick him off he goes for a snack and potty break to let me settle back down before he comes back to his spot, or so hubby tells me)
 
I don't think you need to do any checks, unless you want to grab one before bed.

7:30 it is. I don't "do" morning, so I won't see you then!
 
I don't really *like* mornings, but I keep waking up ;) I only sleep about 6 or 7 hours a night if I'm not run down so that is a time I am pretty much always up, even if I'm not happy about it. It does give me my alone time, since hubby (when he's here) and sons all like to sleep in as late as possible. I actually kind of get irritated if someone wakes up before I've had a few hours of quiet on the weekend.

Tugger will be thrilled to be left alone for a while =) poor guy has put up with so much these past few days. I'm really proud of him though! I'll grab one more reading on the way to bed, but I'm not coming back to post unless it's weird. If it's not, I'll post it in the morning cuz I'm beat and ready to go curl up in my bed. If Bella will share, don't know why she suddenly decided to sleep in my spot cuz usually she leaves the bedroom to the boys, but hopefully she will let me have a little bit of that king sized bed.
 
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