julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
woot for spring! second morning on this reduction - we'll see what happens today.
3/20 punkin pmps 299 +3/258
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Roni and Moonie
Member Since 2009
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276
Looking good today for blue later, maybe green for spring!! Sometimes it takes a dose time to settle, as with Moonie, sometimes even with a reduction.Usually an increase would take the 6 cycles to take effect,
But I notice even when I lower her it takes a few cycles to show--
Have a beautiful day--BTW my favorite drooler(dog) was named pumpkin! :mrgreen:
Have a great sunday!
Looking good today for blue later, maybe green for spring!! Sometimes it takes a dose time to settle, as with Moonie, sometimes even with a reduction.Usually an increase would take the 6 cycles to take effect,
But I notice even when I lower her it takes a few cycles to show--
Have a beautiful day--BTW my favorite drooler(dog) was named pumpkin! :mrgreen:
Have a great sunday!
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276
man, this lantus must be painful for him - i don't know what to do. i've got him burritoed in a beach towel, my husband is holding him steady as possible, he's on the kitchen cooktop under the spotlight - and i got the shot going and as it went in he jerked. out came the needle, i could see a drop on his fur, a drop on my finger and some left in the syringe. i put it back in again and gave the rest.
are there any more tricks for managing the shot? i don't want to switch insulins when it seems like this is working, but what am i going to do if the dosing is inaccurate because he yanks it out?
i can't get him wrapped any tighter because i have to get ahold of some skin to lift it up for shooting. it's already pretty tight anyway.
btw, i'm using the monoject short needles with 1/2 unit markings, 31g - really like them. i like the shorter length because i'm not as worried i'm gonna hit muscle.
back to bed & hoping for some suggestions from others.
man, this lantus must be painful for him - i don't know what to do. i've got him burritoed in a beach towel, my husband is holding him steady as possible, he's on the kitchen cooktop under the spotlight - and i got the shot going and as it went in he jerked. out came the needle, i could see a drop on his fur, a drop on my finger and some left in the syringe. i put it back in again and gave the rest.
are there any more tricks for managing the shot? i don't want to switch insulins when it seems like this is working, but what am i going to do if the dosing is inaccurate because he yanks it out?
i can't get him wrapped any tighter because i have to get ahold of some skin to lift it up for shooting. it's already pretty tight anyway.
btw, i'm using the monoject short needles with 1/2 unit markings, 31g - really like them. i like the shorter length because i'm not as worried i'm gonna hit muscle.
back to bed & hoping for some suggestions from others.
Nicole & Baby
Member Since 2009
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 need ideas for shooting better
Hi, Punkin & mom too ;-)
Re: shooting... our methods are definitely different, I shoot Baby Cakes by myself & do not wrap her in a towel or hold her down.
Here are some tips that are often shared when one is new to this & I hope the video or illustrated document will help.
Hang in there.. I am sure you are doing a fabulous job, nobody is a pro overnight.
Insulin Injection Demonstration
Injection Sites for Cats
If one spot causes a yelp, try another & so on.. good luck!
Hi, Punkin & mom too ;-)
Re: shooting... our methods are definitely different, I shoot Baby Cakes by myself & do not wrap her in a towel or hold her down.
Here are some tips that are often shared when one is new to this & I hope the video or illustrated document will help.
Hang in there.. I am sure you are doing a fabulous job, nobody is a pro overnight.
Insulin Injection Demonstration
Injection Sites for Cats
If one spot causes a yelp, try another & so on.. good luck!
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 need ideas for shooting better
I think Nicole's suggestion is a good one. Trying a different spot may help.
I wouldn't be apprehensive about switching to Lev. Many cats here do exceptionally well on Lev. There are no real practical differences with Lev save that the nadir is typically later.
I think Nicole's suggestion is a good one. Trying a different spot may help.
I wouldn't be apprehensive about switching to Lev. Many cats here do exceptionally well on Lev. There are no real practical differences with Lev save that the nadir is typically later.
Jason & Belle (GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 need ideas for shooting better
I've used the long needles for this exact reason. If you tent the skin enough and and shoot parallel to the body, you won't hit muscle. I never have. Short needles just don't give you much wiggle room. Gracie hates her shots, but once I get the long needle in, I have enough time to inject the full dose before she wriggles free. You may want to give them a try. I know my Walmart will sell the ten packs of needles so you can test them out, maybe some of your local pharmacies will as well.
Jason
I've used the long needles for this exact reason. If you tent the skin enough and and shoot parallel to the body, you won't hit muscle. I never have. Short needles just don't give you much wiggle room. Gracie hates her shots, but once I get the long needle in, I have enough time to inject the full dose before she wriggles free. You may want to give them a try. I know my Walmart will sell the ten packs of needles so you can test them out, maybe some of your local pharmacies will as well.
Jason
Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 thanks for ideas
I'm with Jason. Like the long needles better too. You can 'feel' them go into the skin. leaves less room for doubt. I find the easiest place foe me to shoot is on either side of the scruff. lots of loose skin. I've never had any luck with flank shots, but I have had good luck with side shots using a short needle. Doesn't sound like your cat would like that though.
What she might like is Levemir. Doesn't sting going in. Lantus does.
Good Luck
I'm with Jason. Like the long needles better too. You can 'feel' them go into the skin. leaves less room for doubt. I find the easiest place foe me to shoot is on either side of the scruff. lots of loose skin. I've never had any luck with flank shots, but I have had good luck with side shots using a short needle. Doesn't sound like your cat would like that though.
What she might like is Levemir. Doesn't sting going in. Lantus does.
Good Luck
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 thanks for ideas
+3/248
i'll look at the injection sites options again - i've watched the how-to video before. i don't think it's "how" i'm injecting, because he doesn't object until the insulin starts to go in. Jason, i'm giving him 6.75 units - i think the volume is part of the problem too. he tolerates the needle going in and the first part of the insulin, then reacts. I only started burritoing him for the shot this past week because he had turned into a wild thing about them. I have been using the longer needles until 3 days ago when i opened the box of short ones - the others (which i thought were awesome) were Terumo 5/16.
Sienne, if we switched to Levemir would I move to that support group? as pathetic as it is, I would rather not make a switch now that we're into this. But I'm on day 37 of the vial and have a single Lantus pen supposed to be ready tomorrow at the pharmacy, so if i'm going to switch him now would be the time.
+3/248
i'll look at the injection sites options again - i've watched the how-to video before. i don't think it's "how" i'm injecting, because he doesn't object until the insulin starts to go in. Jason, i'm giving him 6.75 units - i think the volume is part of the problem too. he tolerates the needle going in and the first part of the insulin, then reacts. I only started burritoing him for the shot this past week because he had turned into a wild thing about them. I have been using the longer needles until 3 days ago when i opened the box of short ones - the others (which i thought were awesome) were Terumo 5/16.
Sienne, if we switched to Levemir would I move to that support group? as pathetic as it is, I would rather not make a switch now that we're into this. But I'm on day 37 of the vial and have a single Lantus pen supposed to be ready tomorrow at the pharmacy, so if i'm going to switch him now would be the time.
Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 thanks for ideas
My Alex is a Levemir kitty (switched from Lantus) and here I am...our home is Lantus Land
You would stay right where you are!!!!
julie1220 said:
My Alex is a Levemir kitty (switched from Lantus) and here I am...our home is Lantus Land
You would stay right where you are!!!!
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 thanks for ideas
Lots of the Lantus Land kitties are on Levemir. Rusty is.
I have heard that Lantus stings. This wouldn't matter very much with the small dose many of our kitties get, but with larger doses, like Punkin's, it is probably a factor. I wouldn't hesitate to switch insulins. Do look at the Levemir forum, however, because I believe that Lantus and Levemir are not exact equivalents as regards the size of the dose (I think the equivalent Lev. dose is slightly smaller; Ann/Tess would be able to tell you this, since they switched a short while ago). Since Rusty came to us already on Lev., I just treat it as if it were Lantus (which I knew from experience with Stu), but observe that onset tends to be later in the cycle, as does the nadir.
Good luck with shot giving. I'm sure it will become routine very quickly and Punkin won't mind it so much.
Ella & Rusty
Lots of the Lantus Land kitties are on Levemir. Rusty is.
I have heard that Lantus stings. This wouldn't matter very much with the small dose many of our kitties get, but with larger doses, like Punkin's, it is probably a factor. I wouldn't hesitate to switch insulins. Do look at the Levemir forum, however, because I believe that Lantus and Levemir are not exact equivalents as regards the size of the dose (I think the equivalent Lev. dose is slightly smaller; Ann/Tess would be able to tell you this, since they switched a short while ago). Since Rusty came to us already on Lev., I just treat it as if it were Lantus (which I knew from experience with Stu), but observe that onset tends to be later in the cycle, as does the nadir.
Good luck with shot giving. I'm sure it will become routine very quickly and Punkin won't mind it so much.
Ella & Rusty
mybuddybinks
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 thanks for ideas
i'm no help because binks gets his food right before the shot, and is generally to busy chowing down to notice.
nice yellows for punkster, tho!
i'm no help because binks gets his food right before the shot, and is generally to busy chowing down to notice.
nice yellows for punkster, tho!
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 thanks for ideas
This board is much more active than the Levemir board and beans don't want to lose their friends here. There are lots of Lev kitties here for a variety of reasons. High doses, long term and trying to see if something new will jump start them.
We just switched Tess in January. The main difference I've noticed is later onset and nadir. It has slowed her early dramatic drops. But Tess is often still climbimg back at +3 or 4 after the next dose. It takes a little getting used to.
You would need a new Rx too. Lev is a newer insulin and not as many vets are familiar w/ it.
This board is much more active than the Levemir board and beans don't want to lose their friends here. There are lots of Lev kitties here for a variety of reasons. High doses, long term and trying to see if something new will jump start them.
We just switched Tess in January. The main difference I've noticed is later onset and nadir. It has slowed her early dramatic drops. But Tess is often still climbimg back at +3 or 4 after the next dose. It takes a little getting used to.
You would need a new Rx too. Lev is a newer insulin and not as many vets are familiar w/ it.
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 thanks for ideas
I just saw Ella's post in Tess's condo. Levemir is supposed to sting a lot less so the problem you are having w/ Punkin might be solved. I think it is the solution that the insulin is suspended in.
If you do switch there can be a rough first week. You need to reduce the Lev dose, by maybe half, and then gradually work back up to the right dose. We had a real roller coaster because Tess was on such a small dose already there wasn't much difference when we cut her dose in half. :roll: If you are prepared for it, it isn't that much of a problem, just do it when you can be around a lot for a few days. The Lev shed doesn't simply replace the Lantus one. It builds up while the Lantus is emptying from the system, so you in effect have 2 insulins working at once.
I just saw Ella's post in Tess's condo. Levemir is supposed to sting a lot less so the problem you are having w/ Punkin might be solved. I think it is the solution that the insulin is suspended in.
If you do switch there can be a rough first week. You need to reduce the Lev dose, by maybe half, and then gradually work back up to the right dose. We had a real roller coaster because Tess was on such a small dose already there wasn't much difference when we cut her dose in half. :roll: If you are prepared for it, it isn't that much of a problem, just do it when you can be around a lot for a few days. The Lev shed doesn't simply replace the Lantus one. It builds up while the Lantus is emptying from the system, so you in effect have 2 insulins working at once.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 thanks for ideas
i really appreciate all the comments. except for the stinging he's doing well on the Lantus - we've reduced his dose multiple times and he's definitely responding to it. I think I'll chat with the vet in the morning and see if he has an opinion.
which btw, i kept meaning to say this vet is so awesome. The screw-up with not giving us the new needles when we switched from ProZinc U-40 to Lantus U-100 - he's apologized to me several times. Said punkin deserved better care than that mistake, and just has kicked and kicked himself. now i realize i said that he's awesome, and it's not because he's groveling about it - it's that he's so very honest and open. Admitted the mistake and I told him to just let it go. none of us is perfect and punkin hasn't been harmed by the error (fortunately). You don't get perfect vets or doctors of any kind, but he's the kind of man with integrity that i really appreciate.
I read elsewhere on the forum the debate between switching sites, too. Sounds like absorption rate varies from site to site. I think i'll try shooting him tonight somewhere besides his scruff. Earlier I'd read (years ago) that cats have 70% of their total number of nerves in front of their shoulders, so maybe elsewhere won't bother him as much. If that doesn't work, then maybe Levemir is the way to go.
Do cats go off Lev as readily as off Lantus?
i really appreciate all the comments. except for the stinging he's doing well on the Lantus - we've reduced his dose multiple times and he's definitely responding to it. I think I'll chat with the vet in the morning and see if he has an opinion.
which btw, i kept meaning to say this vet is so awesome. The screw-up with not giving us the new needles when we switched from ProZinc U-40 to Lantus U-100 - he's apologized to me several times. Said punkin deserved better care than that mistake, and just has kicked and kicked himself. now i realize i said that he's awesome, and it's not because he's groveling about it - it's that he's so very honest and open. Admitted the mistake and I told him to just let it go. none of us is perfect and punkin hasn't been harmed by the error (fortunately). You don't get perfect vets or doctors of any kind, but he's the kind of man with integrity that i really appreciate.
I read elsewhere on the forum the debate between switching sites, too. Sounds like absorption rate varies from site to site. I think i'll try shooting him tonight somewhere besides his scruff. Earlier I'd read (years ago) that cats have 70% of their total number of nerves in front of their shoulders, so maybe elsewhere won't bother him as much. If that doesn't work, then maybe Levemir is the way to go.
Do cats go off Lev as readily as off Lantus?
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 +5/235 thks for ideas
i guess he's sorta surfing in the 200's today - could be worse!
just saw your last post, Ann. Thanks for all of that info. All i'm doing these days is taking care of punkin anyway. good thing he's worth it.
one of my neighbors said there's no cat who will love you like a cat who's been homeless - and despite my continued poking and hurting punkin, he's still seeking me out for snuggles. he's a sweetie.
oh yeah, and i stopped shooting him while he was eating because he was refusing to come and eat, suspecting that he was going to get ambushed by a needle jab. he wouldn't even come into the kitchen. and he LOVES his food.
i guess he's sorta surfing in the 200's today - could be worse!
just saw your last post, Ann. Thanks for all of that info. All i'm doing these days is taking care of punkin anyway. good thing he's worth it.
one of my neighbors said there's no cat who will love you like a cat who's been homeless - and despite my continued poking and hurting punkin, he's still seeking me out for snuggles.
he's a sweetie.oh yeah, and i stopped shooting him while he was eating because he was refusing to come and eat, suspecting that he was going to get ambushed by a needle jab. he wouldn't even come into the kitchen. and he LOVES his food.
Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 thanks for ideas
Don't be shocked if your vet doesn't know as much about Levemir as he knows about Lantus. It's not as widely used in the US as Lantus because it is newer. It's really trial and error. If something isn't working the way you'd like it to, you switch. If someone suggests that maybe something would work better, either you try it or you don't. For Alex it has made a big difference. Some people on the boards have switched back. I tried to switch back and it was horrendous..so I switched back to Lev. Lisa and DoLou switched back to Lantus after trying Lev and are happy.
I don't think one is better than the other but the one thing I can promise you is that Levemir doesn't sting
btw..if you do switch, you may need a lower starting dose with Levemir than you are currently using. I don't know what that would be(for us it was a lot lower at FIRST but I think the higher the dose the cat is taking the less of a difference in starting doses)...but there are people much more capable on the boards who would know if you asked.
Good luck if you decide to switch
julie1220 said:
Don't be shocked if your vet doesn't know as much about Levemir as he knows about Lantus. It's not as widely used in the US as Lantus because it is newer. It's really trial and error. If something isn't working the way you'd like it to, you switch. If someone suggests that maybe something would work better, either you try it or you don't. For Alex it has made a big difference. Some people on the boards have switched back. I tried to switch back and it was horrendous..so I switched back to Lev. Lisa and DoLou switched back to Lantus after trying Lev and are happy.
I don't think one is better than the other but the one thing I can promise you is that Levemir doesn't sting
btw..if you do switch, you may need a lower starting dose with Levemir than you are currently using. I don't know what that would be(for us it was a lot lower at FIRST but I think the higher the dose the cat is taking the less of a difference in starting doses)...but there are people much more capable on the boards who would know if you asked.
Good luck if you decide to switch
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 +5/235 NANNER!
OHMYGOSH - i just came home with a nanner for each - and they've gone nuts. Anya especially - punkin basically passed out after rolling around and chewing on it. But when Anya got tired of her own nanner she tried to sneak in on punkin's nanner (after all, he's passed out, remember) and he came alive and went after her.
OHMYGOSH - i just came home with a nanner for each - and they've gone nuts. Anya especially - punkin basically passed out after rolling around and chewing on it. But when Anya got tired of her own nanner she tried to sneak in on punkin's nanner (after all, he's passed out, remember) and he came alive and went after her.
Sarah and Simba
Member Since 2011
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 +5/235 NANNERS!
lol@nanners....
I hope punkin lets you find a great spot to poke him with lantus.. also happy to hear you won't have to switch boards if you switch insulins :smile:
lol@nanners....
I hope punkin lets you find a great spot to poke him with lantus.. also happy to hear you won't have to switch boards if you switch insulins :smile:
Michelle and Mannie (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 +5/235 NANNERS!
I am SO PROUD! ~~ Mannie, the Nanner King
I am SO PROUD! ~~ Mannie, the Nanner King
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 +5/235 NANNERS!
The dosing protocol that we use is for both Lantus and Lev. You don't have to switch forums. As you're hearing, there are many Lev kitties here.
Aside from the later nadir, you do start a Lev dose at a slightly reduced level. If you look at the formal version of our dosing protocol, it's recommended that you decrease your dose by roughly 30% when switching to Lev. The author of the dosing protocol, Jacqui Rand, DVM does not differentiate between the two types of insulin with respect to how to dose or the success at getting cats into remission or tight regulation.
The dosing protocol that we use is for both Lantus and Lev. You don't have to switch forums. As you're hearing, there are many Lev kitties here.
Aside from the later nadir, you do start a Lev dose at a slightly reduced level. If you look at the formal version of our dosing protocol, it's recommended that you decrease your dose by roughly 30% when switching to Lev. The author of the dosing protocol, Jacqui Rand, DVM does not differentiate between the two types of insulin with respect to how to dose or the success at getting cats into remission or tight regulation.
Karrie and Maverick
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 +5/235 NANNERS!
:lol: :lol: :lol: Awesome :mrgreen:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Awesome :mrgreen:
Amy&TrixieCat
Member Since 2011
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 +5/235 NANNERS!
Where do you get the nanners? I've got to go out running errands tomorrow...if I came home with nanners for all, I'm sure I'd be greeted by 6 very happy kitties!
Where do you get the nanners? I've got to go out running errands tomorrow...if I came home with nanners for all, I'm sure I'd be greeted by 6 very happy kitties!
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 +5/235 NANNERS!
YAY on the nanners!!!! Ann has some great info about switching to lev so glad she posted....she was up several nights in a row, I think, because of the two sheds overlapping. Hope all is well, Miss Julie!
YAY on the nanners!!!! Ann has some great info about switching to lev so glad she posted....she was up several nights in a row, I think, because of the two sheds overlapping. Hope all is well, Miss Julie!
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 +5/235 NANNERS!
i called our local pet store and asked if they carried catnip nanners - well actually, i asked for "bananas" just in case they didn't know them as "nanners." ;-)
They had an assortment of fruits and even catnip sardines made by the same company. the guy said that it's an especially potent kind of catnip that cats like.
i warmed the syringe in my fingers for about 20 minutes before shooting him tonight - moved down a ways to a new area, although still on the scruff. he was mad before the needle even touched him. pulled it out once, but i hadn't started to inject anything yet. so i don't know whether it's the insulin or just the whole thing that has him mad.
at what point do you declare a decrease "failed"? I don't think we're quite there yet because of the part-fur issue this morning - i don't think it's been a fair trial yet.
these nanners are causing WW3 here. they might have to go into time out! :lol: punkin, who i wouldn't say is all that territorial (although i definitely belong to him) is being very possessive about "HIS" nanner. and for some reason Anya wants his instead of hers. good grief.
i called our local pet store and asked if they carried catnip nanners - well actually, i asked for "bananas" just in case they didn't know them as "nanners." ;-)
They had an assortment of fruits and even catnip sardines made by the same company. the guy said that it's an especially potent kind of catnip that cats like.
i warmed the syringe in my fingers for about 20 minutes before shooting him tonight - moved down a ways to a new area, although still on the scruff. he was mad before the needle even touched him. pulled it out once, but i hadn't started to inject anything yet. so i don't know whether it's the insulin or just the whole thing that has him mad.
at what point do you declare a decrease "failed"? I don't think we're quite there yet because of the part-fur issue this morning - i don't think it's been a fair trial yet.
these nanners are causing WW3 here. they might have to go into time out! :lol: punkin, who i wouldn't say is all that territorial (although i definitely belong to him) is being very possessive about "HIS" nanner. and for some reason Anya wants his instead of hers. good grief.
Lisa and Do Lou (GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/20 punkin amps 276 +3/248 +5/235 NANNERS!
Just stopping in to say Hi tonight :smile:
Just stopping in to say Hi tonight :smile:
mybuddybinks
Member Since 2010
Re: 3/20 punkin pmps 299 nanner wars!
i can advise on the nanners...BUY MORE!
our place is littered with them!
i can advise on the nanners...BUY MORE!
our place is littered with them!
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 3/20 punkin pmps 299 nanner wars!
how many nanners do 2 kitties need? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
i posted another link in my sig line with some nanner pics - for some reason the "action shots" wouldn't upload. not sure why.
how many nanners do 2 kitties need? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
i posted another link in my sig line with some nanner pics - for some reason the "action shots" wouldn't upload. not sure why.
MJ+Donovan
Member Since 2009
Re: 3/20 punkin pmps 299 nanner wars!
Those are definitely new nanners. They still look yellow.
Those are definitely new nanners. They still look yellow.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
today was the flattest day we've ever had - too bad it was all in the yellow! oh well, at least there wasn't any drama or tension. and i'm going to bed at a normal time tonight!
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