3/2 Tuscany PMPS~358, +2~357 PRED/NEURO APPT 3/3

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joyce-tuscany(GA)

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yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7769

WCR: seemed a bit ravenous this am - pred or hi sugar talking?? Did not have the patience to eat her pill pocket and wanted the fuds - NOW. And then went immediately back to under the table.

Question - should I, do I have to - wait the 6 doses to increase the insulin with being on the pred?? Going to go look up the 1/2 life of prednisolone and see if there is perhaps a time that it could be better to give the pred to her. bbl.
 
Re: 3/2 Tuscany AMPS~426 PRED/dose?

Dont know anything about it , but hope it improves Tuscany real quick--Feel good Tuscany!
 
Re: 3/2 Tuscany AMPS~426 PRED/dose?

Hungry at the high numbers...hope
Tuscany feels better soon...I don't know anything either about the prdd but know that you will find your answers Joyce...
You are doing great! such a good Mama Bean...love to you both!!
 
Re: 3/2 Tuscany AMPS~426 PRED/dose?

Hi Joyce,
I will try to find the information I looked so hard for a while back with the onset and half life of pred. I spent almost a month playing around with timing for Latte. You could look at her ss from maybe November (?) and see I did a lot of changing around with timing and testing nearly every hour for some time. What I had read in this article seemed to hold true for what I was finding in Latte...approx 1-2hr onset (her numbers will start increasing 1-2hrs after I give it), approx 4-6 hrs (half-life?). Her numbers usually drop around +6. You can see this pattern on her ss, as well. I found the idea would be to have the peak of pred match the peak of the insulin action. That is very difficult to attain, as every cycle can be different. But..we can try! ;-)

There will be other factors involved with Latte's rise and drops from pred. Some unknown, some obvious. The obvious would be last night as an example. I gave at shot time and she was high. the higher she is when I give it the greater the rise. She also ate kibble @ 3:30pm. From the data I collected she rises from kibble around 5hrs later and drops it 7-8hrs after eating. Her +2.75 (450ish) was right at the peak of pred, along with the kibble on board. it stuck around who knows how long, but she dropped well over 100pts between +5 and amps.

A while back I determined for Latte the best time to give pred would be 2hrs post pm shot. This was because the insulin could get a head start on lowering her numbers before the pred took over. Unfortunately, due to my schedule and wanting to be consistent I had to opt to shot time. Ive played around with it a bit this month because overall she has been abnormally high. Because she is bouncing from the slightest drops, Im not certain it is helping her by giving it 2hrs later now. Its just making her go up/down/up down (see 2/28 on ss for example).

Another struggle I have come accross is dosing appropriately. She needs a higher dose at night to help with the pred. But that same dose in the day will bring her too low. Not everyone seems to experience this to the extreme we do. One suggestion that has been made is to split the pred dose (am/pm). I have not done that YET. I think Linda/Bear Man tried it for a short time, but she bailed because of overall high numbers (???). Cheryl/Winnie seemed to find some success with it.

Im really sorry Tuscany is reacting in such a severe way to the pred. It is indeed terribly frustrating. I have been discouraged to increase except every 6 cycles. I would think others might discourage you to do so as well. BUT, you have been at this longer than I ...and have a good feel for what she needs. It seems with the pred on board, there is no protocol. Its a constant wingin' it. *sigh*

Im sorry I dont have any answers. I hope some of what I have said makes sense and is helpful in regards to experimenting a little for Tuscany. Let me know if you have more questions, thoughts, ideas.

((((((((joyce))))))))
((((((((tuscany)))))))))
 
Re: 3/2 Tuscany AMPS~426 PRED/dose?

hey tuscany ... why don't you and mocha come back on down to the lower numbers .. you know you feel better at the lower numbers!
 
Re: 3/2 Tuscany AMPS~426 PRED/dose?

Joyce -

I wonder if the pred will start to level out a bit or, as Carolyn was suggesting, maybe splitting the dose will allow for a more even distribution of numbers. I do think I remember someone saying the first week or so caused higher numbers until their kitty began to acclimate and numbers came down to some degree. It may be that you're going to need to do a curve in order to sort out how the pred is influencing Tuscany's cycle. I'm concerned that if you raise her dose to compensate for the pred, her numbers will be low for the non-pred cycle. I'd let the current dose settle for another cycle -- I wouldn't want to compound the dose/pred issue with NDW.

Can you mark on your SS when you're giving the pred?
 
recap today:
amps: 426
+4.75: 224
pmps: 358
+2: 357

Changed the pred time to pm+2 tonight - this is day 5 of the prednisolone. Hoping that maybe the drug peak will be timing better with insulin peak. Other than the ugly numbers I really don't see much change in her.

I do have a neurology appt for her tomorrow at 10am. Not really sure what I'll be accomplishing. Guess I am looking for another input as to what the vet feels has gone on - and what we can do to medically manage this issue. Looking for some ideas from the neurologist about the cont use of pred.... DH and I are after QOL for Tuscany - within her limitations (age, dm, crf....).
 
(((Joyce))) hang in there, things will settle down.

I do think you should hold the doses for 6 cycles minimum, and get as many spot checks as you can before increasing the dose. There are more factors now to consider, so you have a whole new set of data to collect. Also some of the high numbers could be related to the Baytril too
 
pm +4.5~ 360. Flat ugh pink. Well, one good thing - I don't have to worry about hypos and can go to sleep!

Will update tomorrow after the vet.
 
(((joyce)))

like libby said, hold the dose for 6 cycles before increasing. i'm glad those who have used pred are able to help...
 
Are you still planning on using pred once a day for 7-10 days and then weaning off and going to every other day dosing for a week and then stopping????

If so Tuscany's numbers will probably come back down to pre pred numbers when you stop. and certainly come down with the reduction as well. Unless she is ketone prone, not sure for that short term it is worth chasing numbers. If you and the vets decide to continue on then that's a different story.

also to note: my experience is that often you get an initial bang to the numbers and then it settles down a bit.
hope that is the case for Tuscany.

Good luck with the neurologist !!! I'll be interested to hear what they suggest.
 
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