3/19 Sid ketones :( - question on grain free food

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Lydia & Sid & Jake(GA)

Lydia & Sid & Jake(GA)

Member Since 2010
Not that any of us needed a reminder of how fast ketones can pop up... After several days of being LO, 0.2, 0.4, etc, Tonight Sid is at 0.9. :o

I gave him 60ml SQ and plan to increase his dose tomorrow only by .1 - to 1.6. I knew I shouldn't have posted his LO!!!! And I didnt anti jinx it either. We will do our best to get rid of those ketones. I will only pull out the R if I have to.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=66455
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

If Laurie can lend a hand with the PZI dose, that may address the insulin needs.

Do you know how the meter reading correlates with the Ketostix reading? Is this greater than trace or more in that neighborhood?

Is Sid eating?
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

Yes, Sid is eating pretty well - about the same as usual. He showed negative to trace when he went as high as 3.1 on the meter. That was about a week or so ago.

I'm hoping the fluids will flush out the ketones. How often can I give him fluids? He weighs about 6 pounds and I gave him 60 mls this evening. Should I give him a bit more around midnight? he does not have any heart problems other than a small murmur that is "normal."

I do not think his 1.5 dose is enough.

I also wanted to mention that I tested one of the civvies with the ketone meter and he was LO so that tells me the meter is relatively accurate. I will use the civvies as the control since the control solution sent me by nova labs is always out of range.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

Speaking of the urine test strip... just saw Sid walking to the litterbox in the living room (yes, I know- sigh) so I was able to get a sample. Definite negative.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

I know squat about PZI other than you can dose hop as you need to. Sid bounces on R so I'd be reticent to suggest it unless his numbers were way high.

Again, I don't have first hand experience with fluids. I do know that whatever amount you've given must be completely absorbed before you give any more. No squishy parts on Sid anywhere. Marje or some of the others who have used squids will be of greater help.

At this point, it sounds like the ketones are between negative and trace. Just keep testing and correlate the meter and ketostix whenever you can.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

I know it is different for Sid with his past but the first times I tested Vyktor's blood for ketones he was 0.7 and then 0.9 and I was freaking out. I was advised that trace is more like 3 - as you discovered for yourself. I did nothing for Vyktor and all was well. So I think because of your wonderful monitoring of Sid and early catch and administration of fluids you will be able to ward the ketones off no problem so try not to worry too much. Good catch Lydia you are the greatest.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

Lydia

Sienne asked me to pop over about the squids. Although Sid does not have any heart problems other than a "murmur", a murmur indicates a valve issue typically. And so we have to be careful with squids.....he needs them but you want to be sure you do not overdo it because the additional fluids can put extra strain on the pumping of his heart. Not trying to scare you....just want to be careful.

What did your vet recommend on squids before? First and foremost, I'd go with that recommendation if he/she gave you an amount when Sid was just in this "trace" ketone state.

With my kitty, Teddi, who weighed 6 lbs and had a heart murmur, I never gave her more than 75mls a day. And I always did, and you must do before you give him fluids, a full body check and make sure there are no pockets of fluid, no squishy parts, etc. Also check behind his front paws and even check down his front paws. Fluids can seep into the interstitial spaces in the front paws....if it does, his paw will look swollen. Also...weigh him. Weigh him before you give fluids and then right after so you know how much difference the fluids make in his weight. And before you give fluids the next time, weigh him again.

Because of his murmur, I feel if the ketones continue to go up, you should consult your vet before you increase the fluid amount. IMHO.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

Lydia, I'm sending all the positive energy I can muster for Sid to get rid of those nasty ketones. Big hug to you.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

Thank you everyone. What a difference a day makes, huh? :YMSIGH:

Marje, thank you for your thoughts about the fluids. I agree about not overdoing it. Sid's murmur has been heard by so many vets... It is very low grade almost not noticeable but I agree with you about checking for squishy parts and weighing him. I don't think I will give him any more fluids tonight. I will in the morning for sure. The vet said 100 mls, tops for Sid. I usually give about 75-90 depending. Sid has a very slight amount of kidney compromised functions. Last time his bloodwork showed a BUN of 39 not bad at all for an older cat but something to keep in mind. That is I believe why the vet said we can go a little more on the fluids. I do only give fluids when he is running over 400 and/ or when ketones are present.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

Good....I'm glad they gave you some limits. I've had to balance a cat with CKD and with CHF.....they need the fluids for the kidneys but it's a fine line to overwhelming the heart. No...a BUN of 39 is not bad; in fact, if his creat is normal, I would look at diet, too, as a source for the very slightly increased BUN. A high protein diet can result in a higher BUN. Ifnhisndiet hasn't changed in quite a while, you could compare this BUN with a baseline of bloodwork done when he was healthier.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

As I posted in the PZI forum, I think going back up to 1.6u tomorrow am is a good idea, Lydia. I would hold off on R....the ketone level is still relatively low and remember that he had a HUGE drop from a tiny R dose just a few days ago, followed by a huge bounce. I have no experience with subQ fluids, so I defer to Marje on that.

Breathe.....I know it's an increase in his ketone level, but you have dealt with this before successfully. Increase the PZ dose at the next shot, make sure he keeps eating and drinking, and monitor the ketone levels (and correlate them as Sienne suggested.) As I mentioned in PZI, you may need to feed higher carb food to offset the insulin and keep him from bottoming out. You are doing a great job with Sid!

Go away, evil ketones! :evil:
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

Thank you!! I"m not going to overreact and give R unless I can't get his level down and he has increased ketones. Then I will have to get aggressive. I will probably feed him the authority turkey& giblets tomorrow. That is only 7% carbs but I don't want to give him too high of a carb food and have him stay high - which is what I think happened the other day. Would you agree that 7% carb is adequate?

Poor guy is hungry right now. Sitting in the kitchen right by the fridge. He keeps walking over and licking his empty food bowl. I'm going to give him a couple freeze dried chicken treats because I can't stand to see him do that. Oh he just left the kitchen and is picking a fight with Ben!!! Jumping on him and everything :lol: I do think he has eaten a good amount today - just tonight he ate 1/3 can of a 13oz can of supreme supper.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

I checked his bg and he was 103 down from 175 an hour ago so I gave him 1/2 of a small can (3oz) of this Wilderness Blue Freedom grain free chicken food that is brand new and I just found- he really likes it :smile: He's still licking his bowl.
I'm hoping because it is grain free it will not raise his bg but just keep him from dropping. I will check him again shortly to see.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

That 103 is very nice, a welcome number! This cycle looks good, even though he started in the icky black, he has steadily gone down the whole cycle....nice! I like how the Supreme Supper slowed him down in the beginning, so he didn't immediately bounce from the fast drop. I really like how this looks, Lydia. :-D

I would try to use the same sort of strategy as you did tonight....feed the 7% at least for +1 and +2 to control that dive, and for +3 if you think he needs it. I know you are worried about spiking his numbers, but I really think controlling the drop is the key to avoiding those quick bounces into the red and black numbers. If you are worried that he may go low while you are at work, leave 7% out for him to snack on. Better to be safe than sorry.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

Boy, Sid loves keeping you on your toes, Lydia! I guess the question now is what kind of number will he give you at shot time confused_cat Gosh, I wish I had a magic potion to give you and fix him all up ;-) I guess depending on where he's at will determine 1.5 or 1.6 in the AM. Since you have to leave for work, if you do shoot 1.6AM just make sure you leave food out and I believe it was Laurie that mentioned to maybe leave HC food out? I know with prudence.... although when she was at only .2 I would get crazy numbers from yellow to blue to green back and forth, so all I can offer to you is that, whatever you decide... I'll be here for you guys! I know you need to stay clear of those H readings of ketones, so I see why the 1.6 is in order. Thinking of you ((((((HUGS)))))))
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

Sid was at 326 this am. He surfed last night for several hours in blue. I could hardly sleep so I woke up with no alarm and checked him a couple of times.

This morning I gave him Supreme Supper (he has already eaten about 3/4 of a 6oz can). I could hardly test him he was so ready for his breffis. :lol: I also checked ketones and he was at 0.4.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

Sandy I would guess he is eating 1.5 to 2 cans 6oz per day. He weighs about 6 pounds. I try to only feed him out of the same can and I open about 2 per day for him.
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

We're sending all the virtual strength we can muster to help you and Sid continue to improve, Lydia!

cat-helping-cat.jpg
 
Re: 3/19 Sid ketones :(

Come on Sid!!! Keep those ketones down, baby!!! Ughhh I feel for you Lydia, I know what you're going through. Hate these stupid ketones!!!!Me and Sasha are sending hugs your way...
 
Karrie,

he was at 5.8 at the vet tonight when I weighed him. Though I think he weighs a bit more and their scale is wrong and so I will check him on another scale.

Has anyone tried the Blue Wilderness Freedom grain free? I think it does a really nice job of keeping him from spiking up just based on his numbers from yesterday and today. I bought an entire case of this and am going to experiment to see how well it does to keep his level steadier.Usually especially at PMPS he spikes up 100-200 pts after his meal but tonight he did not.

AM ketone reading was 0.4
PM ketone reading was 0.1 (wasted 4 test strips to get it!!!)
 
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