3/17 Sasha PMPS +5 303 L+6 302 L+7/R+1 263 L+8/L+2 242

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Sasha&Tara

Member Since 2012
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=66334

Hi everyone! So, Sasha had trace ketones again yesterday, and now with my new meter I have been keeping track of them. He was at .07 last night, and this morning the ketone meter read 1.7, then 1.9... now I just tested him again and he's at 1.1.

I think he has an infection... when he was at the ER Hospital, they were giving him 22.7 mg Baytril injections every day for 5 days.. and then they sent me home with a 33mg bottle of baytril, told me to give him .07 mls a day until it ran out. I gave it to him for about 10 days, we just finished the bottle 2 days ago.

The vet is telling me that there was no infection, that they suspected a kidney infection on the ultrasaound, but that his urine culture came up negative so they were just taking "precautions" with the Baytril. I questioned her further, asked why he's had ketones 3 times in 2 weeks if there wasnt an infection present. Her response to me was that its because he's not regulated on insulin. I asked her what she considered regulated. She says as long as his BG stays aroung 300, he's regulated.

RIDICULOUS. He was diagnosed with diabetes last May. His normal preshot bgs were in the 300's. He's NEVER had ketones before.

She told me she would give him a 5 week supply of Baytril. This was just to get me off the phone.
I cant get anyone to give him an ultrasound today to see whats going on, unless it's an "emergency" situation, which is big $$$$ I dont have.

Sasha is eating a lot. He's become picky with his LC food so I have been giving him HC Fancy feast and he's eating it. I can tell he doesnt feel well though. He's hiding a lot.

He's never had a dental, I dont know if he has a gum infection. In that case the Baytril wont do anything... But these ketones are coming back and I have to stop them. Should I go ahead and pick up the Baytril and treat this as a kidney infection ?

Forgive me if I am rambling, I'm getting so discouraged with these vets and these awful ketones
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303

Right now, I'm just giving you some ((Hugs))). I know it's frustrating.

Do you think he would eat more LC, if you just mixed a little HC in with some LC? Like the 1/4 HC to 3/4 LC? We do want to keep up that appetite, but maybe all HC is keeping his bg numbers up, too.
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303

Tara...trying to drum up some more eyes regarding the insulin doses.....maybe Dyana can address whether he needs more R.
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303

Dyana, I think he would. I'm going to try it!!! Thanks for the hugs girl, I can use them!!!

Marje- you rock!
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303

Sasha&Tara said:
Should I go ahead and pick up the Baytril and treat this as a kidney infection ?
Click to expand...
Hopefully someone with experience around kidney infections will chime in - I have no idea.

Dyana's suggestion about the LC/HC mix is wise. Glad to see you think he'll go for it.
As long as he continues to chow down, stick with it.
If he gets fussy again, increase the HC in the mix incrementally.

Let's see what the PIMPS is and then think about an R dose for tonight :cool:
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303

Hi Tara,

What form is the Baytril that the dr prescribed in? If it's injectable, if it was my cat I would not let them give them again. I looked Baytril up and found this: http://www.petmedications.com/petmedications/baytril & this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrofloxacin, both of which are worrisome. The good thing is that Baytril is good for a lot of different infections, only I would ask the druggist to give it in liquid or tablet form with no sugar, only If you really think he has something brewing, I don't know him and can't see him. I know a lot of vets and drs. don't like to give antibiotics but I know with Racci sometimes she needs them regardless of what her blood tests show because something is brewing and I can fend it off that way. Of course that's just my opinion and I am not a vet. I just have a cat who gets sick a lot so know the best way to keep my cat well. You have to do what is best for your cat which may not be the same. Read all the contraindications before you do anything. Every drug has risks and it could just be his insulin that is off.

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303

Hi Tara,
I have been following your situation a bit, and noticed numerous mentions to kidney infections. My Latte had a number of these infections, and chronic UTI's. Baytril was often the choice for suspected kidney infections and they were often used for about 6 weeks. I believe we used Orbax for a while as well. I would have to spend some time going back to look on her ss. Just a heads up, I believe I remember both medications being pretty costly.

Im a little sleepy and slow in the brain today. :roll: If you like, I can gather some thoughts/information for you. Let me know. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303

Hi Tara, can you get a +11 test, please. If Sasha's numbers are still rising, we might want to give a TOR at +11, hoping to bring the numbers down by the time of the Lantus onset, so that the Lantus can have an easier time doing it's job.
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303

Sasha&Tara said:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=66334

Hi everyone! So, Sasha had trace ketones again yesterday, and now with my new meter I have been keeping track of them. He was at .07 last night, and this morning the ketone meter read 1.7, then 1.9... now I just tested him again and he's at 1.1.

I think he has an infection... when he was at the ER Hospital, they were giving him 22.7 mg Baytril injections every day for 5 days.. and then they sent me home with a 33mg bottle of baytril, told me to give him .07 mls a day until it ran out. I gave it to him for about 10 days, we just finished the bottle 2 days ago.

The vet is telling me that there was no infection, that they suspected a kidney infection on the ultrasaound, but that his urine culture came up negative so they were just taking "precautions" with the Baytril. I questioned her further, asked why he's had ketones 3 times in 2 weeks if there wasnt an infection present. Her response to me was that its because he's not regulated on insulin. I asked her what she considered regulated. She says as long as his BG stays aroung 300, he's regulated.

RIDICULOUS. He was diagnosed with diabetes last May. His normal preshot bgs were in the 300's. He's NEVER had ketones before.

She told me she would give him a 5 week supply of Baytril. This was just to get me off the phone.
I cant get anyone to give him an ultrasound today to see whats going on, unless it's an "emergency" situation, which is big $$$$ I dont have.

Sasha is eating a lot. He's become picky with his LC food so I have been giving him HC Fancy feast and he's eating it. I can tell he doesnt feel well though. He's hiding a lot.

He's never had a dental, I dont know if he has a gum infection. In that case the Baytril wont do anything... But these ketones are coming back and I have to stop them. Should I go ahead and pick up the Baytril and treat this as a kidney infection ?

Forgive me if I am rambling, I'm getting so discouraged with these vets and these awful ketones
Click to expand...

My own experience with my cat was that he did have pyelonephritis, but did not test positive on the urine culture. It is possible for bacteria to burrow deep into the kidney and not be shed in the urine. In cases of pyelonephritis, antibiotics may be required for up to six weeks. We did use Baytril. It is my understanding that Baytril injection should not be used in cats. There is an upper limit on the oral dose due to a possibility of blindness as a rare side effect. You posted blood work the other day which showed an elevated white blood cell count. That could be consistent with an infection somewhere in the body. If the ultrasound done recently showed changes in the kidney consistent with pyelonephritis, it may show the same thing if repeated quite soon afterwards. If it were my cat, I would be tempted to continue treatment with the Baytril that the vet is prescribing, due to the ongoing presence of ketones.
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303

hi tara. i honestly don't know what to tell you about giving sasha the baytril. you've been given conflicting information from your vets. it sure puts you between a rock and a hard place!

i dunno. given your circumstances and sasha's history (available in previous threads for those reading), if we were talking about alex... i would read through those links melanie provided, weigh what you were told, and make the best decision i could possibly make. if you pushed me for an answer with alex, i would probably go ahead with the use of baytril under the same circumstancs. however, i want to make it very clear... i am not a vet.

regarding dose: R users are following this thread and will suggest an R dose by PMPS time.
i would increase the lantus dose from 3.25u to 3.5u tonight.

just my thoughts...
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303 +11 405

Thank you Linda. I meant to say that the reason the injections are not recommended for cats is because of the eye damage but left it out. I'm glad you told her.

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303 +11 405

Tara, if you are there please go ahead and give sasha .5uR now (+11).

As Jill mentioned raise the lantus dose to 3.5u tonight.
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303 +11 405

Hi everybody!!! Thank you for all of the support and advice! I dont know what I'd do without you guys, seriously!!! I'm having a pity party for myself today...ughh

He's at 405 now +11 and he is eating the LC HC mix.

I picked up the Baytril, it's liquid form. The vet gave me a 5 week supply, .07ml once a day. I went ahead and gave it to him. I really do believe somethings brewing... its too weird that he never had ketones up until 2 weeks ago and now they just keep coming back. I just feel so bad for him.
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha AMPS 423 +2 391 +6 282 + 9 303 +11 405

FWIW, my sister is going through dealing with a kidney infection in her cat. After much discussion and her concern about the effects of Baytril, two vets recommended that it's the best AB for treating a kidney infection. Like Linda noted, a kidney infection is different from a UTI. You can have a negative culture and still have a kidney infection. In fact, her cat didn't even have an elevated white blood count. Her cat's kidney infection was diagnosed based on ultrasound.

My understanding is that the typical course of treatment for a kidney infection is at least 4 weeks of antibiotic. My sister's cat is getting oral Baytril. They have recommended that she get an ultrasound on her cat every 2 weeks to see if the kidney is responding to treatment.
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS +1R 372 L+1/R+2 307

Sienne, I do think it's a kidney infection. The vet did say they saw something was "off" on Sasha's ultrasound!

Carolyn thank you for those links!! They have alot of great info!!!

Well, the R is bringing him down nicely!!!

I'm wondering if I should give more fluids later on?
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS +1R 372

I don't have any experience with fluids, but just wanted to say that the dose of R is working perfectly. 100 points down in 2 hours, maybe another 50 points or so in the next 2 hours, and the Lantus can take it from there, I hope.
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS +1R 372

Tara:

I probably would give him more fluids. I think last night I was suggesting 75mls bid. You already gave him 100 mls. It's up to you but another 50-75 mls tonight won't hurt him as long as you make absolutely sure he has absorbed all the fluids from before.

Glad to see him coming down some......hugs!!
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS +1R 372

I tested him using the keytone sticks, it's clearly reading trace ketones... these ketones are wicked....

Thanks Dyana and Marge!!! The R is working great on him and I'm going to give him more fluids in a couple of hours!!!
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS +1R 372 L+1/R+2 307 L+2/R+3 287

Hey Tara, no advice here, I am just chiming in to give you some support. :YMHUG: You are working so hard to take care of Sasha, and I honestly don't want to think about what would have happened to him if you weren't so on the ball with the R and fluids and antibiotics. You guys are going to beat this! All of Lantus Land is pulling for Sasha! :thumbup
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS +1R 372 L+1/R+2 307 L+2/R+3 287

Awww thank you sooo much Melissa for making me smile, I need that today!!! Huge hugs to you and Bailey!!!!!! :YMHUG: your support means so much!
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS +1R 372 L+1/R+2 307 L+2/R+3 287

Tara --

If you can, I'd like to suggest that you get a urine ketone test as close to when you get a blood ketone test as possible. We don't have a good correlation between the readings on the Nova Max meter and the ketostix as we do with the Precision Xtra. The more information you have on how the ketostix relate to the meter, the more you will know what's going on.
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS L+2/R+3 287 +5 303

Thank you Barb!!! Its a big deal to me and Sasha!!! :-D

Sienne, I used a ketostick and then tested him just now. The strip showed the tiniest bit of pink, and on the meter he came down to .05!!!! I'm afraid because the R wore off, his ketone levels are going to rise. I'm wondering if I should give him a little more R?
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS L+2/R+3 287 +5 303

Hi there :cool:
Get a +6 and if still pink and you will be able to get a spot check or 2 later, you can give 0.25uR at +6.
How's that sound?

When did he last eat?
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS L+2/R+3 287 +5 303

Tara

Sienne has a great point. I think you said at one time when you got a 1.9 that he was moderate on the urine sticks? Am I remembering that correctly?

Trying to get some eyes for you regarding more R tonight. Great news on the ketones. you are amazing.
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS L+2/R+3 287 +5 303

Yes Marje! The 1.9 on the strip showed up as small ... and the .05 I got did read trace on the strip. Thank you for the compliment, I dont think Sasha thinks I'm amazing...poor little guy is like a little pin cushion right now and is giving me the evil eye any time I walk by him!!

Sandy, the last time he ate was about an hour ago... I'm going to be up late tonight anyway, so I'll be able to do the spot checks...thank you!
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS L+2/R+3 287 +5 303

If you can keep a record of the urine and blood values (maybe make a tab on your SS), it will help you and others who get a Nova Max.

I think LOTS of treats will help Sasha feel better about the tests.
 
Re: 3/17 Sasha +11 405 PMPS L+2/R+3 287 +5 303

ok Sienne- will do! Thank you!!! lol, He's going thru his freeze dried chicken treats like crazy!!!
 
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