3/14 Buddha

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Donna & Buddha

Donna & Buddha

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I increased today's dose up a .1 from last weeks 2.0u to 2.1u.

Here's the scoop
amps 318 (good for him!)
+2 357
+5 75
+7.5 456 (boo)

He's been HUNGRY today, all day, and likely got lots of crumbs. I did feed some boiled chicken breast at +5 post test. But the 456 is certainly a rebound.

My feeling though is that I'll continue with the 2.1u 12/12 all week and see if the rebound tapers off. Seems like the "panicky liver" sort more than the "OMG he's gonna die" sort. I'll also probably shoot at +10 tonight. I'll need to figure out how day light savings figures in with tomorrow morning's shot.

Unless someone here jumps in with other compelling advice.

I'm really intrigued by those of you daring enough to go to TID. (That's every 8 hours, right?) I could manage it short term, but not in the "forever as long as my diabetic cat will live" long term. Do some people TID on weekends and go back to BID during the week?

And how would one explain that to one's skeptical vet?

Ha!
 
Hi Donna, Wow! on that panicky liver. The steep drop might have caused that rebound. You also got some action on a very small increase. Only a .1 increase and you were in the green. It seems to me, these kitties are just mysteries half the time.

You do have to have the right schedule to do TID long term. We did it in November for about 6 days and it helped me get the dose up and got Blackie's bgs under control. But I couldn't do it on a regular basis. I didn't even tell my vet that we did it.

I hope you and Buddha have a good week.

(edited to add a little...)
 
I second that "wow" on the sharp drop and rebound. Could you possibly slow that steep drop with some yummy food given around +3, +4 every cycle? 300 point drop in 3 hrs! (Looks like vetsulin!)

I use a timed feeder (esp overnight) and give heavy snacks/light meals at about +3 and + 6 (and a little snack at +9 to keep him happy.) I feel like this keep us from the panicy liver thing that i swear Cody does anytime we get under 200.

Recently I found the Pure Bites freeze dried chicken breast for DOGS at Pet Supplys Plus, buy one get one free ($10) I like the pieces which are bigger and make a nice treat/ snack if you wet them a little. Much cheaper than the same thing marketed for cats.
 
I feed a can of fancy feast to Buddha right after I give him his shoot. Most mornings lately, he nibbles and he's happy. Then he returns a couple hours later and finishes the rest of it. He gets another 1/2 can anywhere from 2 to 4 hours after the first is gone. Usually depends on when he asks for it or when I'm around to give it to him. Today, he was hungry and devoured his can in one inhale. He finished up the 1/2 can "snack" fairly early, don't remember exactly, but probably after the +2 check. The timing isn't exact, but that's the routine for the past couple of weeks. (Before that, he was eating 4 cans of fancy feast, twice a day. So he's eating a can less per day, but has gained weight.)

Sometimes I give him a fancy feast variety with more carbs (4 instead of 2). Didn't do that this morning, wanted to see what happened.

Doesn't anyone see this curve as a need for less insulin?
 
Nancy - my civvie Gira absolutely adores the Pure Bites. We soak them and they end up looking like chunks of raw chicken. Of course, my poor sugar kitty rolls her eyes at me when I try to give them to her. I won't tell you how long it took me to figure out that I should soak them in water first...

Donna - The good drops then 2 hour monster spikes could be too much insulin. We were seeing moments like that with Ari that baffled me. Although I freely admit that whenever I get a "HI" or black number, my go to dose is 2u in those instances, although next time it happens I think I might try her normal dose and monitor to see if it helps then give her a .5 unit bump at +6 if it doesn't bring her into a good range. Any time we get a black number, it usually takes a few days before I get any readings that are remotely logical.
 
The hunger could be from the drop I would think. As I understand it when our blood sugar drops either on the low side, or dropping fast, our body goes into protection mode and the first line of defense is hunger. That may not be scientific (with people, I think crabbiness perhaps is the 1st line of defense :lol: )

I wonder if the drop too is related to the 2 carbs vs. the usual 4? I have no idea if that small a difference would = noticeable difference in the #s.

When I look at the SS all I see is a preeeeeetty caleidoscope of colors - wheeeeeeeeeeeeee. Can't even attempt to get my mind around evaluting the dosing!!! sorry :-D
 
I want to change the term "unregulated" to "rainbow." Having an unregulated diabetic cat makes me feel like I'm a loser. But if Buddha is a rainbow cat, because of his colorful spreadsheet, then I can feel better about myself as a person but still be motivated to give him a better quality of life as a regulated cat.

So I nominate : rainbow, regulated, and OTJ as the new three states of being for a diabetic cat.

He's trying to eat my ipod, so I'd best go feed him.
 
Donna - save the ipod!!

Aria is in the same very colorful situation recently. Rainbow makes me think too much of the Rainbow Bridge, so I'd have to put out there Kaleidoscope Kitties. Never know what combination of colors you're going to get.
 
OH NO! The rainbow bridge did not enter my mind, not a good choice. My worry of confusion with other Rainbows was with Rainbow Pride, which would also apply to my cats, because I do catch them "loving" each other quite often.

I accept the amendment to my motion, Kaleidoscope Kitties it is.
 
I feed a can of fancy feast to Buddha right after I give him his shoot. Most mornings lately, he nibbles and he's happy. Then he returns a couple hours later and finishes the rest of it. He gets another 1/2 can anywhere from 2 to 4 hours after the first is gone. Usually depends on when he asks for it or when I'm around to give it to him. Today, he was hungry and devoured his can in one inhale. He finished up the 1/2 can "snack" fairly early, don't remember exactly, but probably after the +2 check. The timing isn't exact, but that's the routine for the past couple of weeks. (Before that, he was eating 4 cans of fancy feast, twice a day. So he's eating a can less per day, but has gained weight.)

Sometimes I give him a fancy feast variety with more carbs (4 instead of 2). Didn't do that this morning, wanted to see what happened.

Doesn't anyone see this curve as a need for less insulin?
Click to expand...

Donna,
I keep looking at your data and it is really a mystery to me.....
A couple things that don't really make sense to me-
1) You feed fancy feast (I'm assuming the non gravy flavors?) and yet he seems frequently have a pretty big spike (from food?) 2-3 hrs after the shot. and if it is from food, why is it still so high at +3. (Look at Cody's ss, his food spike is noticeable at +1-+2 and insulin onset is definitely around +2. Cody's typical food spike is only 25-30 pts. Buddhas are sometimes really high (100's if I remember right) I don't know how finicky he is, but would a different food help? Maybe stick to the lowest carb flavors?

I noticed you have been at this since 2008 ( a good long while) and use a contour meter- and I know nothing about that meter- but with all your crazy data I can't help but wonder... have you tried running a control solution test? Could your strips have gotten frozen in shipping or something? Have you ever considered trying a different meter - just for comparison sake? Just looking for possible explanations.... and when you get a crazy number (75) do you ever retest immediately?

Per your other question, I really can't tell you if it is too much insulin- what does your gut and his history tell you? Has he ever tried less insulin for a solid week, maybe on a the best FF LC flavors? I'll tell you, I'd be batty/nervous with all that unpredictable jumping around.
Thats part of why I feed canned DM, same -same everyday, so if BG jumps around I look for some other explanation(tumor, illness, full moon :lol: :shock: ).

Anyway- Your doing an awesome job caring for him - I'll send good, level, even keeled vibes your way ;-) :-D
 
Thanks for looking Nancy.

Nancy and Cody] A couple things that don't really make sense to me- 1) You feed fancy feast (I'm assuming the non gravy flavors?) and yet he seems frequently have a pretty big spike (from food?) 2-3 hrs after the shot. and if it is from food said:
I noticed you have been at this since 2008 ( a good long while) and use a contour meter- and I know nothing about that meter- but with all your crazy data I can't help but wonder... have you tried running a control solution test? Could your strips have gotten frozen in shipping or something? Have you ever considered trying a different meter - just for comparison sake? Just looking for possible explanations.... and when you get a crazy number (75) do you ever retest immediately?
Click to expand...

I have dropped the Contour a few times. I have tested it with control solution. I get strips usually from Ebay, from different people. It doesn't seem to make a difference in batches (though I do get higher readings from expired strips, so I don't use expired anymore.) I have collected a couple of different meters but haven't tested them yet. I do sometimes retest with the Contour immediately. The second test has always agreed with the first. This weekend, it was cheaper to get a couple of Contour meters free with strip purchases on Ebay (100 strips for $24!) so they will arrive soon.

Wouldn't it be nice if it was the meter? I used to think the lower numbers happened with small blood samples, but I've done so many tests now, I know that's wrong. Yesterday was a "prick several times for a single drop of blood" day. I hate those days. Oh, and I've tested my civvie cat, and he's 56, fasting.
 
But (if this theory is true) why is his insulin absorption so erratic? I have tried shooting in different locations. I used to scruff shoot alot, but have tried moving the location to his side. I wonder if I am somehow able to get the needle not into the pocket between the folds of skin, but into the skin itself. I don't know how to check for that. I almost never (knock on wood, not tempting karma with this statement) have a fur shot.
Click to expand...

Weve been doing this a long time too (and I still get sweaty palms somedays when I shoot ! ) Recently I wondered if his skin has gotten too tough in my old favorite spots, so I started shooting pretty low around almost to his belly. I guess this is an OK spot, and it did seem to absorb a bit better. I also recently changed my technique a bit, I lift the skin and shoot at about a 45 degree angle into the tent near the bottom, but when the needle is pushed in all the way, I try moving it up and down between my tent fingers. If I can feel it slide between my fingers I figure its not stuck in the skin, but in the space below the skin. (try explaining how you shot -its not easy! ohmygod_smile )

If you get desperate for something else to try, you could try canned DM. The new formula is 5% carb as fed. It only about $.30 more than FF per 5-6 ounces. Here's the as fed data:
35% of calories from protein
60% of calories from fat
5% of calories from carbohydrate
262 mg phosphorus/100 calories

Also, FWIW, a month or so ago someone on the fdmb suggested the Maxima meter (Hocks) to me, and it has tested really consistently for us, and the strips are the cheapest out there I think. The bad thing is you can't let yourself get low on strips cause it takes awhile to get shipping from Hocks, 4-6 days. You can try a meter and 100 strips for like $32. It uses .5 micr? blood drop, which is pretty good. 50 strips are 16.50.

If nothing else works, maybe try reducing :?: nevermind, I cant advise a normal dose cat, sorry. Ignore that. :oops:
 
I want to change the term "unregulated" to "rainbow." Having an unregulated diabetic cat makes me feel like I'm a loser. But if Buddha is a rainbow cat, because of his colorful spreadsheet, then I can feel better about myself as a person but still be motivated to give him a better quality of life as a regulated cat.
Click to expand...

Hi Donna, you are doing the best you can. you're not a loser..silly. This whole process is challenging for everyone. Everyone has a different living schedule and every cat is unique. Hugs to you :YMHUG:

I'm really intrigued by those of you daring enough to go to TID. (That's every 8 hours, right?) I could manage it short term, but not in the "forever as long as my diabetic cat will live" long term. Do some people TID on weekends and go back to BID during the week?
Click to expand...

I am doing the TID and it's crazy! My thought for you - If you can try it short term.. its well worth the time. I was able to create my own scale for Prudence and it seems to be working.. cross fingers! I am also using the ProZinc and found with Prudence that it wasn't lasting the full 12 hours.. when I was doing 12/12. Looking at your SS. It looks like Buddha is raising at +7/+8, but then you have to look at the dosage you're giving. Once I was able to get enough data, I was able to bump up or down by 0.1 if looking at her +7 and +8, but I also had to consider what her lows were like. Today I am noticing that her numbers are a bit high and I gave her ff/gravy for the first time ? hmmm.

Looking at Buddha's numbers yesterday.. Since he was at:
amps 531 - 2.10 units
pmps 249 - 1.90

I would of went to 2.0 only dropping by 0.1, but you know your situation better then me :smile: If you see pink and red today, you can note that maybe go to 2.0 next time and just work up or down by 0.1
Again, I am just sharing what's working for me. If you could get more data -like one day +4 +6 +8 then the next day +3 +5 +7 plus see how each dose effects the numbers - you can start creating your scale.

Also, FWIW, a month or so ago someone on the fdmb suggested the Maxima meter (Hocks) to me, and it has tested really consistently for us, and the strips are the cheapest out there I think. The bad thing is you can't let yourself get low on strips cause it takes awhile to get shipping from Hocks, 4-6 days. You can try a meter and 100 strips for like $32. It uses .5 micr? blood drop, which is pretty good. 50 strips are 16.50.
Click to expand...

I use the ReliOn Micro from Walmart. I love it! It only requires 0.3 of blood which is really nice. It cost about 10 bucks maybe cheaper.. I don't remember, but somewhere around that. The strips are 21.00 for 50 I believe you can only get it at Walmart though???

Hope this helps!!! :YMHUG:
 
Michelle, I think the FF/gravy stuff is really high carb - that's what they recommend in the hypo toolkit right? Did you check it on Janet & Binky's charts? Once they are diet-controlled they still can't get the high carb stuff or it'll wonkify the #s.... Some people end up giving small amounts of dry or whatever once their kitties go OTJ, and often end up back here at some point back on the juice :sad: (you may already know all that, but wanted to mention it just in case, so you don't lose your great progress!!!!)

[ETA: except if she isn't eating & that's all she'll eat, then never mind... she's got to eat!]
 
Thanks Joanna! I only see Fancy Feast Elegant Medleys on Janet & Binky's charts. I am back to Friskies :-D No, No dry food here in my house, haha I am finally getting to relax a bit, but poor prudy and her ear. For some reason I can not get blood from her other ear! ... she's so good with dealing with me. Yes. FF is going in my toolkit :-D I am not sure if it's in the hypo toolkit for this site. I am just glad she likes it, so if I start getting into the 40's... I'm grabbing that!

Congrats on Bix last night!!!!
 
Joanna & Bix said:
Michelle, I think the FF/gravy stuff is really high carb - that's what they recommend in the hypo toolkit right? Did you check it on Janet & Binky's charts? Once they are diet-controlled they still can't get the high carb stuff or it'll wonkify the #s.... Some people end up giving small amounts of dry or whatever once their kitties go OTJ, and often end up back here at some point back on the juice :sad: (you may already know all that, but wanted to mention it just in case, so you don't lose your great progress!!!!)

[ETA: except if she isn't eating & that's all she'll eat, then never mind... she's got to eat!]
Click to expand...


Thank goodness I had that FF! Prudence was at 29 a few hours ago and this is stressing me out BIG TIME nailbite_smile It's like one day it's great... the next day ohmygod_smile I can't help but wonder if I should go back to 12/12. I'm so tired, but I want to do what's best for her. I've been making all this progress, but what do I do when +2 throws me a damn 29!!! :cry:
 
Donna, sorry to hijack your thread, oops!!!

Michelle, it looks like Pru is giving you generally good PSs on TID, and clearly getting a strong response to the insulin. I would let it be driven by trying to give her nadirs in the DDs (but no more 29s please kitty!!!! :-D ) and see where the PSs are. If she gets a nadir of say 60 and then the following PS is around 150 like she has been at +8 then I would stick with TID if I could stomach it. If not, I would accept slightly higher PSs and go to 12/12, or maybe +10s or something.

Several of us have tried TID and given up, either because of dosing dilemmas or stress or whatever. No shame in that at all, it is crazy-making stuff! If she is getting better & better duration then to me it is useful (some newbie cats go OTJ really really fast if they can stay in good #s consistently for a few days). If you don't feel like you are making progress and the stress is getting to you, then if it were me I would ditch it & try another strategy. If you go back to 12/12 or something & find the results are no good, you can always go back to TID.

Personally, I think you are making progress since her doses are definitely going down. If she is only now needing 1/2 the insulin she was a few days ago, then what you are doing is helping her, and I'd probably try to stick with it, or maybe try extending it out a little like maybe to +10s if I could manage that schedule.
 
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