3/13SimbaPMPS 198 +2 128 +4 106 +5 119 +6 131 +8 157 +10 158

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Re: 3/13 Simba AMPS 376, +4 275 Atrak

I hope had a good nappus!! (I'm just jealous. I wish I could have gone btb.)

What would you think about increasing Simba's dose tonight? It looks like there's plenty of room for an increase to 1.25u.
 
Re: 3/13 Simba AMPS 376, +4 275 Atrak

Come on back down Simba, there is partying going on in the lower floors. Come and meet the gang!
 
Re: 3/13 Simba AMPS 376, +4 275, +8 140 Atrak

Hiyas! Look who's in the bloooooo! (Ann's invitation must have tempted him!!)

He's been so wobbly, but Sienne I think you're right! He hasn't had a proper curve yet though, so we're doing that tonight and then off to the vet's monday morning.

I have a feeling she'll want to increase by .50 ... Do you think I should push for .25?
 
Re: 3/13 Simba AMPS 376, +4 275, +8 140 Atrak

Assuming I keep the alphatrak, would it make sense to change my ss to better reflect the values of my ideal? it'd be better for me, but what do you guys think?
Meaning my green would now be 70-129 instead of 40-99
All cents welcome, 2 or otherwise!
bcatrun_gif
 
Re: 3/13 Simba AMPS 376, +4 275, +8 140 Atrak

Hi Sarah,
I would stick with the protocol for increasing the dose: .25 unit at a time. It's always better to work up gradually than to possibly miss the optimal dose by increasing too much at one time. Sienne suggests 1.25 and I would follow her suggestion.

With regard to the colors on the spreadsheet, it is your SS and you should have it the way it is best for you. As long as it is clearly marked AlphaTrak, I don't see that it would be a problem for anyone. Of course, if you should decide to get a different meter, you'll have to re-do the colors and that could be confusing in the long run for anyone trying to read your SS!

Good luck with your vet!!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 3/13 Simba AMPS 376, +4 275, +8 140 Atrak

heehee.. thanks Ella :-D

I tried changing the colour rules but it messed up the coding that brings world values to US.. maybe I'll ask in tech later today about that :smile:
 
Re: 3/13 Simba AMPS 376, +4 275, +8 140 Atrak

Send a PM to Randi and Max. She set up the current version of the template and should be able to lend you a hand.

I also agree with Ella. With Simba venturing below 300 at nadir, the protocol dictates a dose increase of 0.25u. Since Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, you don't want to be overly zealous and miss a good dose or have to go chasing after low numbers.
 
Re: 3/13 Simba AMPS 376, +4 275, +8 140 Atrak

yeah, we're just not 100% that his nadir is +8. We're doing a curve tonight :)
and yes, I'm definitely not looking forward to fighting my vet on .25 vs .50 :? :twisted:
 
Re: 3/13 Simba AMPS 376, +4 275, +8 140 Atrak

Thanks so much you guys, I'm so fortunate to have found this place. Sienne, wanna come to the vet's with me!?! (pretty pretty pwease?)
 
Re: 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak not eating his PM meal?

Simba's not eating his PM meal... should I feed him with a syringe or just let him do what he's gonna do?
 
Re: HALP! not eating his PM meal? 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak

Unlike other kinds of insulin, you do have some time before Lantus kicks in. See what you can do to entice Simba to eat -- a different variety of food, add/crumble treats, tuna water, parmesan cheese, a bit of your food, baby food (if you have it -- the kind with no onions or veggies -- just meat and broth).

One way that I can tell if Gabby isn't feeling well is whether she'll eat treats. See if any of this works.
 
Re: HALP! not eating his PM meal? 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak

Hi again,
I don't see why you should have to fight with your vet over the dose increase. Even if it turns out that 1.5 units would be the best dose, you will have worked up to that if you start with 1.25 and observe what happens for the requisite number of cycles. Just say to your vet that we follow the protocol because it has been found to be best to err on the side of caution. Simba is your cat and you have to do what you think is best for him.
When Stu (GA September 2010, not from diabetes) was started on Lantus his vet put him on way too high a dose and kept increasing it by 2 units at a time. It almost killed him. Thank goodness I found this board! Granted, this is an extreme case, but the principle is the same.
Good luck tomorrow, Sarah!

Ella
 
Re: more food questions.. 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak

woot!! Parmesan! He had a few noms. tysm Sienne! *falls over*

He doesn't eat very much at a time, and he's super new to wet food. (We put him on royal canin recovery formula') just last week because he wasn't eating due to constipation and what we now know was high blood sugar.

Before that, he was a die-hard dry food eater. He would never look at wet food twice. He loved the dry!! 14 years of dry.

He's not eating the dry food anymore, (and he doesn't seem to be looking for it), but he's only eating little bits of a time now of the wet food now that I"m weaning him from recovery formula to purina diabetic management. Before he was gulping the royal canin recovery 1/4 at a time.

Since he loved the recovery formula just on it's own, should I consider not putting him on the diabetic diet?
 
Re: more food questions.. 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak

Sarah....what do you mean by diabetic diet? Do you mean DM? I don't know anyone in the group that feeds DM (canned or dry) because even the canned is high in %calories from carbs. Most people use Janet and Binky's food chart and feed Fancy Feast or Wellness or Merrick. Here's the link to Janet and Binky's food charts:

Janet and Binky's Food Chart

There is a section for non-US foods. You might also want to check with some of the other folks (like Karrie) who live in Canada. I'm having a brain collapse right now from doing taxes and can't remember who else is in Canada but there are several.
 
Re: more food questions.. 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak

Most cats hate those veterinary diets. Stu wouldn't even go near the Purina diabetes diet (DM). And if you compare the list of ingredients you will see that they contain a lot of low grade ingredients, compared to the "commercial" foods. (They also cost more than even the most expensive, high-end commercial foods.) Have you printed out Janet & Binky's food lists (see the Sticky: "New to the Group")? You should be able to find something there that Simba will like. Rusty loves Wellness turkey (4% carbs); the Merrick foods are very popular here, but the ones that are not in their BG (before grain) line tend to be somewhat higher in carbs. Check them out in Janet & Binky's list. Cowboy Cookout is a favorite (5% carbs).
Vets prescribe the special diets because they are prescription and therefore only the vets can sell them. I personally don't think most vets know much about feline nutrition.

Ella

I just see that as I was writing this Marjorie wrote you the same thing! Other Canadians include Randi & Max, Iorwen & Tray, Ronnie & Luna,

p.s. parmesan cheese is one of the world's perfect foods!!
 
Re: more food questions.. 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak

Oh. You're feeding DM? that's probably 75% of the problem! DM isn't horrible on the carbs (75) but look at the ingredients. It's mostly animal by-products. It's not muscle meat. It's really junk.

Gabby isn't overly fussy and she wouldn't eat DM. Here's the link to the outside the US food chart.
 
Re: more food questions.. 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak

DL will not eat DM either and he also was a dry food junkie big time it took me months to get him off dry food he now eats mostly merricks, some FF and some wellness we did raw meat for a while as well
 
Re: more food questions.. 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak

Hey, Sarah! If Simba was a diehard dry food fan, one thing to try would be a probiotic called fortiflora. It is made by purina, and it is flavored with the same "animal digest" that gives dry food its kitty crack-esque quality. While you can get it at the vet, it is much easier and cheaper to order it off of amazon. I also find that Willie likes pure bites chicken dust, Pro-Treats raw natural freeze dried chicken dog treats or cat-man-doo bonito (fish) flakes sprinkled on top of his food. Willie isn't always super excited about his raw diet... especially if I've given him canned food recently. The treats help make sure he eats enough.

I would echo the sentiments on the prescription diets... they really aren't made with the best quality stuff (I believe the DM has a lot of liver in it), and you can do so much better so much more cheaply. Seriously, friskies, sophisticat (petsmart) or special kitty (walmart) pates would be better for Simba... and this is coming from someone who feeds a homemade raw food diet from a recipe custom created for my cat along with some snooty patooty canned foods. :lol: :lol:

As for the dose, just be firm but respectful. Explain to the vet that you appreciate his perspective, but you have concerns about that significant of a dose increase, so you WILL be going with a .25u increase instead of a .5u one. And then just stop and stare. And if he tries to argue, just politely thank him, and ask if there are any other issues he'd like to cover during the visit. I'm sure you'll do great!
 
Re: more food questions.. 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak

wow. I"m so mad at my vet right now. *cries*
She sold me a whole flat. I wonder if I can return it. I'm getting a headache. Such a betrayal.

The thing is, he doesn't think canned food IS food. I'll put out just the recovery formula for him for now, to make him at least eat. He only had tiny nibbles of the parmasan dusted food. maybe a 1/16th of a can.

Info on royal canin Recovery is on the US chart.. I wonder if it's the same values as I have here (37% protein and 6% carbs) ... on the chart it shows "Recovery RS" .. I don't have any RS's on my can...

is that an OK diet to keep him on? (37% protein + 6% carbs)?

Thank you,
Sarah.
 
Re: more food questions.. 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak

Looks like I missed some posts, sorry everybody.. Thanks for the encouragement regarding pushing for a .25 increase. She wanted to start him on a 2u dose in the first place and only stepped to 1u because I totally freaked out. lol but he IS my cat and I AM going to do what's best for him!!!

OK. so. I'm going to study this chart. Thanks for the tips on which fish flakes and treats he might like.. I can't say I'm optimistic, he's never thought treats were very treaterrific. He does love salmon fresh from the bbq though!!

I'm also going to google that fortiflora and see if I can find me some..

Making a list for future reference:
Merricks
Fancy Feast
Wellness
Friskies
Sophisticat
Special Kitty
Cowboy Cookout

fortiflora
pure bites chicken dust
Pro-Treats raw natural freeze dried chicken dog treats
cat-man-doo bonito (fish) flakes

Thank you all so much for holding my hand during this difficult time.
Sarah.
 
Re: more food questions.. 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak

Generally, you can return the food to the vet... just tell her that Simba wouldn't eat it, and generally they will refund your money for the unused portion. For now, the RC Recovery is fine. We recommend feeding foods under 10% carbs, so you're good to go there. Though, many of us prefer keeping it a bit lower... 4% or less. I find it is good to have different percentages on hand. I actually use file labels (garage sale stickers work great too!) to label each can before putting it on the shelf. I have an old duffel bag that I use for Willie supplies... I keep our extra meters and strips in there along with the high carb foods, the karo, nutrical syrup, and occasional use meds, along with a slicky sheet presentation folder with the stickies from here, a copy of willie's diet, lab results, etc. It is nice to have everything in once place, and keeps me from accidentally feeding HC when I'm getting up at 5:30am!

One thing you'll learn along the way is how sensitive Simba is to carbs. If he is a carb sensitive cat, you'll probably want to go with a food that is 1-4% (I like Merrick BG foods... they are 2% and under and Willie really likes them!), whereas if carbs don't affect him as much, you can go with something in the 5-10% range and probably be fine.
 
Re: more food questions.. 3/13 Simba PMPS 198 Atrak

6% carb is fine.

You should be able to return canned food. I brought 2+ cases back to my vet. Just tell him Simba won't eat it. It's true!!

The bottom line with dose and the vet is nod and agree. You can certainly point out that you're nervous about raising the dose so much since you can't monitor 24/7 and would he object to your raising the dose slowly so you can see how Simba is handling the increase. After all, both you and your vet are invested in Simba getting the right dose but also in keeping him safe. And, if that doesn't work, just tell him you'll raise the dose and do what you want after you leave. You're the one with the syringe in your hand. FWIW, if Simba's nadirs were over 300, we'd be encouraging you to raise the dose by 0.5u. My vet doesn't even ask me about dose. She knows I follow the protocol and that I can keep Gabby safe.

Any freeze dries treat that's just protein is fine. There are freeze dried salmon treats that Simba may like if he likes grilled salmon.
 
Re: 3/13 Simba PMPS 198, +2 128 Atrak

yeah, I hate lying to people but I can see that it might be necessary. I'll do whatever I gots ta do ladies!

I'm happy to return the DM in exchange for some more recovery formula until I can work out something he likes that I can get from the pet store, thanks for confirming it's ok :) Vet & tech were saying "it's ok for now, but we'll want to get him onto DM asap"... I guess it's slightly more expensive.

Thanks for catinfo.org.. lots of stuff in there, esp on carb. Think I should show it to my vet or just let laying dogs lie? I don't know how she'd react.

Btw, I put out 1/4 can of just recovery. He took a tester nibble and turned away. I had to squirt some in his mouth with a syringe to convince him I wasn't trying to feed him recovery mixed with DM again!!
After that he nommed happily.. about half of what I put out :D YAY!!!

tysm you guys. I don't know what I'd do without you.
 
Re: 3/13 Simba PMPS 198, +2 128 Atrak

Sarah:

Please get another test. That's a good sized drop by +2 and I'd like to know where Simba's numbers are. Below 80 is a dose reduction with an AlphaTrack meter.
 
Re: 3/13 Simba PMPS 198, +2 128, +4 106 Atrak

Hey, sorry, after getting Simba food I went to get myself fed too!
He's at 106 now. I'll test in an hour to see where he's at instead of waiting two and watch him closely for any signs of anything crazy, does that sound right?
edit: he's eating now too. It's possible the drop at +2 is due to him hardly eating, right?
 
Re: 3/13 Simba PMPS 198, +2 128, +4 106 Atrak

hi! you might want to put "question" in your subject line...

nice pm cycle so far!
 
Re: 3/13 Simba PMPS 198, +2 128, +4 106 Atrak food question

Yup. The drop may have been due to his not eating. However, Lantus onset is at around +2 or +3. You might want to let Simba "nosh" on some LC to see if you can get your kitty on a surfboard.
 
Re: 3/13 Simba PMPS 198, +2 128, +4 106 Atrak food question

hehe. yeah, he's eaten just over 1/4 can since +2.. He seems to only want just under 1/4 at a time... and he's eaten that twice. so, I'm cautiously optimistic!
 
cgan2041l.jpg


Hang on, Simba!
 
Re: 3/13SimbaPMPS 198 +2 128 +4 106 +5 119 +6 131 +8 157 +10

Nice surf!

You will see that a lot of us feed multiple small meals. this spreads things out to slow down cats that like to dive and bounce and it is easier on the pancreas to small installments of food to deal with. Simba seems to be doing this for himself. If you are worried about leaving food out while you are at work, you can freeze small servings to leave out that will thaw throughout the day and/or get a timed feeder.

I have never heard of a cat that didn't like the freeze dries chicken treats. The first time I offered one to Tess she drooled all over my hand. I get the dog treats at Petsmart and cut them up. There are also freeze dried shrimp. The bonito are really cheap if you buy them at a Japanese/ oriental grocery. They are used for making soup.
 
Re: 3/13SimbaPMPS 198 +2 128 +4 106 +5 119 +6 131 +8 157 +10

hah! The closest Simba's ever gotten to drooling is when he drips water fresh from the bowl all over my face on his walk over my head in the morning.

He does look super cute with a water-soaked chin.

I love that he's eating in little amounts - the only trouble is he DOESN'T do it for himself. It's only when I plonk him in front of the bowl that he starts eating... maybe I should start letting him find it on his own? I'm sure he will when those hunger pains hit... ?

Let's take Tess surfing too! C'mon Tess, the water's warm!
 
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