3/13 - Elie - AMPS 113, +2 95, +4 63, +6 112, +8 113

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thebigfuzz

thebigfuzz

Member Since 2012
We seem to be getting the hang of things! Elie is a happy kitty today!

Kept the dosage 1 unit in am, 2 units in pm for this week. We check in with the vet on Friday, so will do any adjustments at that time. I expect him to be in the 200's at +12 so we can shoot 2 comfortably...its hard to stay up to feed! lol

AMPS 113 - Fed 1/2 can Mariners Catch
+2 - 95
+4 - 63 - Fed 1/4 cup Wellness Dry
+6 - 112
+8 113

Yay!
Tanya
 
Ok...

+6 - 59 - Fed 1/2 can Mariners Catch and 2 Medi Treats.

Fed him early tonight...must have been because he had dry at noon rather than wet.

Will wait and see what we do at 8pm. Note: I noticed he was having a large drink at +5.5. He came out into the living room and puked the water up. But happily ate 1/2 can and some treats.

Tanya
 
Re: 3/13 - Elie - AMPS 113, +2 95, +4 63, +6 112, +8 113, +1

Oops, I mean +10 - 59.

I'm a newbie too.
 
hi tanya!

one of the things we can tell you is that lantus needs the same dose consistently given 12 hrs apart - i'm looking at your numbers today and thinking not only for consistency, but also for safety, you really should not give a larger dose tonight.

you might be a newbie, but you're doing just great!

i'm wanting to check out Elie's spreadsheet. how many hours til you give his evening shot?
 
Thanks, we are trying...

It is 7pm pacific time for us right now, and supposed to give the shot at 8pm, so 1 hour. We have been doing 8 am and 8pm, 1unit in the am, and 2 at night. Our vet recommended 2 and 2, but we met her in the middle with 1 and 2. Next week we want to do 1.5, 1.5. But want to do it consistently this week even if it's a bit off. It is our first week.

I think we made the mistake of giving hard food at lunch today rather than Mariners Catch, so we are seeing some earlier dips due to the sugar/carb content.

He just ate a bunch so we will watch him for the next hour.

Tanya
 
Tanya:

You might want to share this article from one of the leading veterinary journals with your vet.

It's the formal, published version of the dosing protocol we use. You (and your vet) will note that the same amount of Lantus is given in the AM and the PM. Because Lantus is a depot-type of medication, every time you give a different dose, it's like causing a ripple in a pool. Rather than having a smooth surface, the pool is always stirred up. This won't help to give you consistency.

I also agree with Julie's point. Given Elie's beautiful cycle today, I'd be reticent to double the dose tonight.

To be honest, I'd stick with 1.0u twice a day. For a newly diagnosed cat, there is a formula to calculate starting dose. (Initial dose = 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms). This usually works out to about 1.0u unless you have a really big or really tiny cat. Doses are also changed, in most cases, in increments of 0.25u.
 

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I will definitely share that with her...thank you. She has a diabetic cat too. I will note that our vet has been really awesome...even calling us 2 times a day to check in. The 1u in the am and 2 in pm was our choice, she wanted to give 2u at both pm and am. We felt it was too much. Our bad.

He is a very large cat...in fact he is only 3 inches from being the worlds longest cat (nose to tail). Maine coon and he should be about 20 lbs. He is currently 20 lbs.

I wish I could get a picture up! :) He's handsome.

We will not be giving 2 u at 8pm. Maybe 1, but we are nervous about that too.
 
Hi Tanya!!

Welcome to Lantus Land. Nice job today!!

I looked at Elie's SS and your posts and I am with Julie...I would not give your kitty 2u of insulin tonight. I think you should drop back to 1u twice a day and give him the time under the protocol to settle into
this dose and see where he goes. If you look at your first shot of 2u and then skipped the next two shots and he STILL got into the 100s and what he did today just tells me you'd be safer to only shoot 1u bid.

Also, since dry food is still in the picture and you are shooting 2u, if you pull away the dry, you could see his numbers really coming down. We highly encourage you to withdraw the dry food but you need to shoot less
insulin than 2u. If you want to follow the tight regulation protocol, it is a requisite to feed a low carbed, canned food. This gives him the best chance of going into remission.

And as stated, lantus likes consistency. If you shoot different doses, you are going to start seeing really wonky numbers.

We're happy to help any way we can but that is our suggestion.....
 
the numbers that have my radar up and beeping is the 63 at +4 and 59 at +10.

we have 2 different issues going on - one is the different doses am/pm and the other is the response Elie is having to the insulin.

you will have wonky numbers as long as he's getting 2 different doses. even if they are off by a quarter unit it will make it difficult to get him regulated. if a cat needs 3 units a day, we would have you give 1.5u am/pm.

that said, you are having a very, very good response to the insulin, regardless of what he's eaten. we ordinarily don't have new people shoot a number less than 150 or 200, just so they don't have to deal with low numbers.

we consider low numbers to be anything below 50. if the 1unit dose this morning got him to 59, 2 units, which is double the dose, is a huge amount more.

i hear what you are saying about not wanting to do something different without your vet's ok, but i am concerned about Elie if you shoot 2 units tonight. even if you give him 1unit, you need to be committed to check him during the night. most cats seem to run lower numbers at night. if he drops below 50, you must be available to first catch that number and then also to give him high carbs to pull his blood sugar up.

i'm on the west coast as well, and if you shoot at 8pm and he hits his low numbers somewhere between +4 and +10 during the night, that's between midnight and 6am our time. there may or may not be someone online at that time.

not trying to scare you, but Elie's safety is our #1 concern. because lantus is a cumulative-type of insulin, the response you got 3 days ago is not likely to be the same response you get tonight. take a look at his spreadsheet and see if you see what i see:

3 days ago, a sea of pink 300's. yesterday, mostly yellow 200's with some blue 100's. today - green. the lantus is doing its thing and Elie is responding.

would you be willing to post his preshot number here and then give us a few minutes to see it and give you advice on how to proceed to keep him safe?
 
oh good - i see marje and sienne popped in too. i'm glad you're not going to shoot 2 units tonight. i would've been very worried if you had! *whew*

i'll make sure and watch for you in a half hour to see what kind of number you get.
 
Hi all,

Thanks for the support. We are not going to do 2 units tonight...no matter what :) We were talking about it too and it would be hard to stay up all night. We are staying up till midnight to do +4 right now. We be tired :mrgreen:

We just tested again
+11.5 - 70

Not sure what to do tonight...give 1 u as long as he feeds again?

I'm so thankful my husband works from home...I'm not sure what we would have done if Elie was home all day.
 
tanya, the 2 of us that are consistently up late west coast time (marje & i) are both thinking we are not available tonight to stay up with you through this. also, because you are tired and can't stay up past +4, this might not be the night to cause the low numbers.

the path to going off of insulin includes shooting progressively lower numbers and we do have people shoot all the way down into 50's and 60's, depending on their comfort level. however, monitoring is essential - so our vote for tonight is for you to skip the shot entirely.

another option is to shoot a "token" dose, say .5u. but with his numbers today, while great, i think we could still expect to have to monitor tonight past +4.

what do you think? what would you like to do?
 
PMPS - 67

Feeding him 1/4 can Mariners Catch.

Totally onboard with regards to the dry food, he hasn't had any since before his diagnosis. My husband thought at noon +4 that Elie hadn't had some in a while and he was a bit low then too. We are doing Friscas Mariners Catch otherwise...as per Binky's list.

Elie was pretty low energy and sick up to the last few days, now he's got his "spunk" back. He was really active at +8, climbing on things and getting into some trouble!

I don't think I want to give him 1 u tonight...Help!
 
just making sure you saw my post above.

once you've fed his BG is likely to rise because of the food - so then we wait for 2 hrs to assess again whether or not he's rising and you can shoot.

for tonight, just let it go.

tomorrow morning, assuming he's more than 100, go ahead with the 1unit and there are always people online during the day to give help if he gets low.

tell your husband he's done a super job of getting all those tests in - i'm assuming if he works from home he's responsible for all the tests today. they tell us the accurate pic of what's going on with elie and really let us give you the best possible advice.
 
Hi Julie,

I think you are right...no shot tonight.

He is doing good, in "normal" numbers. The kind of numbers you want your kitty to be in. Insulin changes the game.

I heard somewhere on here, that if your cat is lower 1 hour after feeding that his pancreas is working and producing insulin? Maybe I made that up lol.

I left extra food out for him, to have if he feels like it.

I feel like he really responds quickly to the insulin injection, so I am hesitant giving it to him low, although commendable to those that do. We are not even a week in...still pretty stressful and we don't even have a dose consistently yet.

PS. you all are awesome!

Tanya
 
I think you missed Julie's post -- you were posting at the same time.

While you've shot blue numbers, given that you and your DH are tired and our west coast contingent can't be on line to help you if Elie's numbers run low, how about skipping the shot tonight? Like Julie said, the mantra with Lantus is "Shoot low to stay low." However, safety is an overriding issue -- you've got to be equipped with strips, HC food, and be able to monitor. It sounds like skipping is the best option for tonight.
 
oh, i should add a couple of things.

we call your 67 a +12 because you didn't shoot. so if you test him again in a couple of hours, that would be a +14. you can put it in your spreadsheet at the regular times, but just write "skip" in the units column.

also, it's really helpful if you edit your first post of this thread and have your latest BG test in there. that let's people note right away if they see something that says you need help. it gets quick attention for you as well. people will follow your progress on the subject lines. you can also edit it to add questions, like if you want to know something about syringes, or testing, or if Elie might need a dose change. we encourage people to just keep editing that subject line so questions and needs don't get missed.

for tonight, since i think you're skipping the shot, you might want to get a couple of tests just to see what he's doing, but you certainly don't need to overtest.
 
Re: 3/13 - Elie - +6 112, +8 113, +10.5 59, +11.5 70, +12 67

Ahh ok. got it. Learning!

Not sure how to edit the first post. I did see your earlier post though.

AMPS 113 - Fed 1/2 can Mariners Catch
+2 - 95
+4 - 63 - Fed 1/4 cup Wellness Dry
+6 - 112
+8 113
+10.5 59 FED
+11.5 70
+12 67 FED

Skipped PMShot
 
when you hit "reply" you then scroll to the top to the first post of the day. from there, you have an option to "edit post" click that, then just click your cursor into the subject line. when you're done editing, i think the option is to "save" at the bottom of the whole post.

one thing, though, don't edit the content of that first post with new information. people will miss it. they'll look to the bottom post for whatever is new. so after you've edited the subject line of that first post and saved it, then add a "reply" with a new post, just like you've been doing tonight. that bumps everyone's current post to the top of the pile and if someone has a need it ends up high in the list and hopefully noticed.

one more bit of info - and don't feel badly because no one ever knows this til after it happens. somehow we never manage to say it in advance! hahahaha there's so much to learn - and don't worry, you'll have another opportunity!!!

anyway, don't feed anything within 2 hours of a shot. the reason we do that is so that we can see that the cat's BG is either flat or rising without it being influenced by the carbs from the food. in tonight's situation, when you were faced with a number and trying to decide what to do, often we have people wait 30 minutes and retest to see if it's rising. if it is, they shoot. while you are waiting you don't feed the kitter - even though you are now violating the Kitter Feed Me Contract. :lol: we know how cats feel when their Feed Me Contract is violated.
 
It is like having a new cat these days.

He is actually feeling good, it is us that are feeling weird lol.

Question: and maybe this belongs in the regular forum
My hubby works from home right now, but has meetings next week, so won't be home all the time for his 12 noon low to feed him out of it.
How do you all handle leaving the house after shooting in the am? (I mean mentally lol) I am pretty scared of it.

Whew...Thanks again.

Tanya
 

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oh Elie is GORGEOUS! wow! what a sweet face!

i have a timed feeder and set it for +1, +2 and +3 - usually i get home from work at +4.75. if i'm not going to be home then, i'd probably add a +5 meal for insurance.

the brand i have is called PetSafe 5 compartment - i like it. i only just got it a couple of months ago and it's the best purchase i could've made. it has given me a huge amount of relief from worrying about him.

you can also leave a frozen "puck" out. mix a can of low carb cat food with water and freeze it in ice cube trays or ziplock bags. they will thaw and be edible by mid-day.

i can't remember if you have more than one cat . . . so of course, elie needs to be able to get the food! you can also leave extra regular canned food out for 12 hrs at a time. just throw away any left at that time. most cats will feed themselves if they are getting low numbers. my problem with punkin is that he's a hoover. you almost can't leave enough food out for him - he can suck up an amazing amount of food. love ya punkin! cat_pet_icon
 
Best advice EVER! The timed feeder. We used to use one for dry food years ago, but will definitely look into this one.

We have 2 other kitties...so 3 total.

Elie was a total hoover...you don't get to be a 20 lb kitty without a love for food. ;-) Delivery drivers usually take pictures or ask to hold him because he is so large.

T
 
Great job today Tanya and DH. Elie is so handsome!

Lots of great info from Julie on what you can do when DH has to work.

I'm glad you understand about keeping the dose consistent. I think the 1u dose is a good one to see what Elie will do.
 
just saw your other post tonight.

UPDATE:

AMPS 113 - Fed 1/2 can Mariners Catch
+2 - 95
+4 - 63 - Fed 1/4 cup Wellness Dry
+6 - 112
+8 113
+10.5 59 FED, 1/2 can, 3 treats
+11.5 70
+12 67 FED, 1/4 can, 2 treats
SKIP
+14 68 FED 1/4 can, 4 treats

We are still hanging out in the mid to high greens...We hope it stays steady like it is and doesn't go lower or get a big high overnight...ughh we are almost force feeding him.

Tanya
Click to expand...

you're doing fine. i don't think he's in any danger tonight. it's not likely he's going to drop now. it was a good choice to skip his shot. if you are nervous tonight you can leave food out for him to munch on overnight. nothing wrong with doing that.

in the morning you can change his shot time if you want to since you skipped tonight. also, if you get a test that makes you nervous, like it's too low for you to feel comfy shooting, go ahead and post and ask for advice before you shoot. wait to feed him while you're waiting for an answer.
 
Thanks,

We are just nervous because we've given him a lot of food and the numbers aren't rising.

Green is good right...

Thanks for the help tonight!

Tanya
 
i am not the most experienced person on here, but as far as i have heard, i don't think a cat would drop lower this far into the shot. not if he hadn't already gone there. i can't guarantee that, but i don't think so. all of the people who have taught me have called it a night by now, though, so i don't have anyone to ask at this point.

if i were you, i'd set a cell phone alarm and get up and check him again in an hour, just for your sanity.
 
actually, do you have another test since the +14/68? i will stay up a few more minutes to see if you have one or can get one, ok? just to see where he is.
 
i'm going to head for bed, but both Randa (mookie) and serryn (vyktor) are still online - i've sent them messages so they'll know to look in on you if you post a reply to this post.

see you tomorrow! sleep well!
 
Hi, Tanya! Just checking in on you to see how you're doing. Elie is just beautiful!

This is the feeder Julie referred to: http://www.amazon.com/PetSafe-5-Meal-Electronic-Pet-Feeder/dp/B000GEWHNS/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

I got one a couple of weeks ago. Mookie isn't used to it yet because I've only used it a few times. He gets acid tummy if he goes too long without food so I have to leave food for him overnight. It works well, and it even has a place to put an ice block to keep the canned food fresh.
 
Good morning,

Update:

+16 was 112

Woke up early this morning, and we are 2 hours away from our normal AMPS, but I tested and he's at 272.
 
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