3/13/2014 Georgie AMPS 448
- Thread starter ajsandbe
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MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Absolutely Not!!!! You NEVER increase by full units and he's been bouncing you have to let the bounce clear before you'll have any idea what this dose will do. Plus he's already told you 2u is too high by hypoing.
This isn't a sprint it's a marathon. Georgie didn't become a diabetic overnight and he's not going to get well overnight either
Mel and The Fur Gang
This isn't a sprint it's a marathon. Georgie didn't become a diabetic overnight and he's not going to get well overnight either
Mel and The Fur Gang
LindaMS
Member Since 2013
I agree wholeheartedly with Mel. If he were my cat (and knowing what I know) I would not even consider raising his dose. As Mel says, you have not got any real data as to what this dose does for him, due to the hypo/bounce he had. This poor cat has only been treated for his FD for 10 days according to your spreadsheet, and he has already hypo'd twice and bounced really hard.
Absolutely do not raise his dose one iota. Give him a week more at this dose, unless he gets too low, in which case you may find that you have to lower it.
At this point, it is absolutely vital that you test frequently and post your numbers so experienced people can chime in and help you.
I know the numbers look crazy, but he is safe at the moment. Breathe. We are here for you.
Absolutely do not raise his dose one iota. Give him a week more at this dose, unless he gets too low, in which case you may find that you have to lower it.
At this point, it is absolutely vital that you test frequently and post your numbers so experienced people can chime in and help you.
I know the numbers look crazy, but he is safe at the moment. Breathe. We are here for you.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
I just looked at his spreadsheet and realized I need to explain some basic principles of using Lantus. Dose changes aren't based on preshot readings but off nadir or lowest point in the cycle. A cycle is the 12hours between shots there are two cycles in a day. most Lantus cats nadir between +5-7. Some earlier and some later. Right now you have no real test results in that time frame to know how low he's going. All preshot readings tell you is that he's high enough to safely give insulin to.
We don't even know for sure where is nadir is yet. Finding that can be done in a couple ways. Either by random testing daily around that mid point or running a curve on a day off. A curve is testing every two hours from one shot to the next.
Second I see by your notes you're testing after he eats. You want to test BEFORE he eats. Testing after he eats is giving you an artificially inflated number due to the food. The food is going to wear off in a couple hours the insulin isn't.
Third dose changes are made by .25u to .5u at max depending on his nadir readings never by full units. You're going to want syringes with half unit marks to make those raises or decreases as easy as possible. You want to use as little insulin as possible because you can always increase if not enough but once its in the cat you can't get it back out. Lantus hypos can last up to 16 hours.
Too high numbers kill over time, too low can kill within minutes if not caught quick enough. Better too high for a few days than too low for a moment.
Its always better to error on the side of caution.
I know its a lot to take in and can be overwhelming in the beginning. We all want our babies well right now but that just doesn't happen that way with this disease. There is no cure only management and control even the lucky ones that go off insulin aren't cured they're diet controlled. They will never again be able to eat high carby foods and can lose that remission at anytime so will always need to be tested if they seem off in anyway.
But the up side is you've found us and we'll be with you every step of the way.
Mel and The Fur Gang
We don't even know for sure where is nadir is yet. Finding that can be done in a couple ways. Either by random testing daily around that mid point or running a curve on a day off. A curve is testing every two hours from one shot to the next.
Second I see by your notes you're testing after he eats. You want to test BEFORE he eats. Testing after he eats is giving you an artificially inflated number due to the food. The food is going to wear off in a couple hours the insulin isn't.
Third dose changes are made by .25u to .5u at max depending on his nadir readings never by full units. You're going to want syringes with half unit marks to make those raises or decreases as easy as possible. You want to use as little insulin as possible because you can always increase if not enough but once its in the cat you can't get it back out. Lantus hypos can last up to 16 hours.
Too high numbers kill over time, too low can kill within minutes if not caught quick enough. Better too high for a few days than too low for a moment.
Its always better to error on the side of caution.
I know its a lot to take in and can be overwhelming in the beginning. We all want our babies well right now but that just doesn't happen that way with this disease. There is no cure only management and control even the lucky ones that go off insulin aren't cured they're diet controlled. They will never again be able to eat high carby foods and can lose that remission at anytime so will always need to be tested if they seem off in anyway.
But the up side is you've found us and we'll be with you every step of the way.
Mel and The Fur Gang
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Oh I forgot to add a bounce takes up to 72 hours to clear and during that 3 days time basically stops when counting how many days a dose has been held. The longer their on insulin and the closer they are to regulation the quicker they'll clear a bounce.
Regulation is is under 240 at preshots with a nadir in the 100s or lower but not lower than 40. Tightly regulated is most of the readings between 40 &150 while on insulin and remission is all readings between 40 &120 with most in the double digits without insulin.
Just keep asking questions and we'll keep answering even if we have to repeat the information a thousand times before it sinks in. The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Regulation is is under 240 at preshots with a nadir in the 100s or lower but not lower than 40. Tightly regulated is most of the readings between 40 &150 while on insulin and remission is all readings between 40 &120 with most in the double digits without insulin.
Just keep asking questions and we'll keep answering even if we have to repeat the information a thousand times before it sinks in. The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked.
Mel and The Fur Gang
ajsandbe
Member Since 2014
Thank you all for the help. The reason why I asked is because I read a post that said to keep him on 1 unit for at least three days and wasn't sure if I should change the dose. I am unable to get the syringes until next tuesday so by then hopefully I can switch to more accurately and subtly. Georgie has been on insulin for almost three weeks I started recording the at home testing numbers on 3/3/14. I really want to test more frequently after his shots so that I can get an accurate look at the important numbers. My work schedule sometimes makes this difficult but I will try to work something out. I am so lucky I have such a great support team. I feel like I am taking and not giving so much so hopefully all this information I am learning will help someone else on this board in the future. :razz:
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Awwww you're welcome Georgie. We're all about you sweet kitties here.
And one day you're mommy will be helping other kitties stay safe and healthy. Just like our mommy does.
Whisker kisses and head butt
The Fur Gang
And one day you're mommy will be helping other kitties stay safe and healthy. Just like our mommy does.
Whisker kisses and head butt
The Fur Gang
RobinCot
Member Since 2013
Aw he's so pretty!
You are doing fine! Mel knows her stuff and is great at providing experienced advice so you are on the right track. It takes a little more time and testing but we can wait until you have the half unit syringes and then maybe get some mid-cycle numbers on a day off or weekend (that's the only time I can get them) and go from there in small increments until you find the dose that gets him into good numbers.
You are doing fine! Mel knows her stuff and is great at providing experienced advice so you are on the right track. It takes a little more time and testing but we can wait until you have the half unit syringes and then maybe get some mid-cycle numbers on a day off or weekend (that's the only time I can get them) and go from there in small increments until you find the dose that gets him into good numbers.
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