? 3/11 Myagi amps 156, +2 193, +5 169, gag/spasm????, pmps 204, +3 224

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

3/10/18 thread - meds all day & sub q, crf link, sub q video, Marje lab notes, except chicken no appy imprvmt, uncomfortable pm cycle

Amps 156, 0.1u, 2c bkfst & chicken, ate none, gave a little evo kibble which he ate. Syringed water x2. Antibiotic, appy and famotidine in pill pockets.

He seems so uncomfortable. Breathing a little rapid. Didn't purr all evening. Purrs this morning but only briefly. Fluids not fully absorbed yet. He peed but I couldn't test it. He outwardly looks so much better than other day, but other than being more alert and awake more, he isn't acting better. Still weak, laying one spot, not self feeding/ drinking, looking sad.

I almost feel like the iv fluids helped and the sub q fluids made something worse....
It certainly seems like he's got plenty of cyproheptadine and famotidine in him that he should be eating.

I know I said yesterday I'd do 100ml sub q, but I may skip today altogether depending on how he does.

Hugs to everyone. Beautiful Sunday to you and your fur babies

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

+2 193, few pieces evo only won't touch food or chicken. Syringe water. Attaching video of weird way breathing. Ok. Tried repeatedly and can't do it.

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

+5 169, syringe fed 20ml combo of turkey baby food, 2c and water. 2 syringes water also. He then ate several small pieces of chicken, a little mature and a little evo.

The syringe feeding was the worse yet, he was very distressed and combative. Calmed super fast after and doesn't mind syringe water. He is on closet pillow now but alert and appears less distressed than earlier (prior post about discomfort, breathing).

I was just going to link our subq fluids video for you and saw @Wendy&Neko did it for me! He was very chill but that was his personality. And he was very gorgeous. We truly miss that hunk of ginger kitten.

Lots of extra hugs for your boy today. Also....for what reason did the vet want him to have subq fluids every day? That even seems excessive to me for a cat that is not Stage 3 CKD and doesn’t have pancreatitis or something which really needs the fluid support.

Unfortunately, as I said, I requested it because of his dehydration and not eating or drinking on his own. She felt it was good if I could do it and instructions were daily til he doesn't need it anymore. So if better, stop, if not, replace bag when done. She did the 200ml iv fluids there.

 

[carfurby (GA)]

I hope Myagi feels better soon and his appy picks up. Sending prayers.

 

[PussCatPrince - GA]

Catching up my end.

Was there a diagnosis Heidi or are you still waiting on that.

I think for video , you have to upload to you tube first and then link that to here.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

+5 169, syringe fed 20ml combo of turkey baby food, 2c and water. 2 syringes water also. He then ate several small pieces of chicken, a little mature and a little evo.

The syringe feeding was the worse yet, he was very distressed and combative. Calmed super fast after and doesn't mind syringe water. He is on closet pillow now but alert and appears less distressed than earlier (prior post about discomfort, breathing).
Unfortunately, as I said, I requested it because of his dehydration and not eating or drinking on his own. She felt it was good if I could do it and instructions were daily til he doesn't need it anymore. So if better, stop, if not, replace bag when done. She did the 200ml iv fluids there.

So sorry....I missed that. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

Just had weird cough/ choke/ spasms... unable to video while helping him. He was napping then started like gagging, choking, coughing simultaneously (very hard to describe, like he couldn't breathe but needed to vomit). I know I'm not describing well cause it was complex and weird. I brought him out and gave him small drops of water and tried to comfort, calm. He did at first then seemed to have another "spasm " and this time thought he'd actually vomit, but after a moment He relaxed and sat down. He sounds like he's rattling. He went back to closet pillow. Just coughed. Yesterday's fluids are still not completely absorbed. Any ideas what's going on? Should I try to help him vomit? I doubt I have anything appropriate anyway, but asking.

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

Catching up my end.

Was there a diagnosis Heidi or are you still waiting on that.

I think for video , you have to upload to you tube first and then link that to here.

No dx for now. Vet concerned re cancer but based on his labs says see if better, improves first, then if doesn't improve, full body xrays to dx.
Is it weird that I don't want to put anything on YouTube?

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

@PussCatPrince asked if Marje thought pancreatitis...

Since I just recently got home and he’s been sick, I haven’t had a chance to read back over all his condos. One thing I’ve found out in my research on pancreatitis is that it is a lot more prevalent, even in non diabetic cats, than we think. Typically if a cat “just ain’t doing right” and is off their food, maybe a little lethargic, there’s a chance it is pancreatitis. The IDEXX lab and vet did not run a specfPL that I see (although it’s not impossible for me to have missed it). Even so, if Myagi had an elevated specfPL, it could be from some other related issue (intestinal for instance) and so the best dx is still ultrasound if the symptoms are not obviously full blown pancreatitis. Of course, that’s not possible to do at this time for Myagi.

But, the treatment is what Heidi is doing so hopefully, he will improve.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

 

[Stacy & Asia]

Just had weird cough/ choke/ spasms... unable to video while helping him. He was napping then started like gagging, choking, coughing simultaneously (very hard to describe, like he couldn't breathe but needed to vomit). I know I'm not describing well cause it was complex and weird. I brought him out and gave him small drops of water and tried to comfort, calm. He did at first then seemed to have another "spasm " and this time thought he'd actually vomit, but after a moment He relaxed and sat down. He sounds like he's rattling. He went back to closet pillow. Just coughed. Yesterday's fluids are still not completely absorbed. Any ideas what's going on? Should I try to help him vomit? I doubt I have anything appropriate anyway, but asking.

I'm so sorry you didn't get a diagnosis yet and he's still having trouble. Come on, Myagi, time to perk up, buddy!

I don't want to alarm you, but some of those symptoms sound like heart things to me, coughing coupled with rapid heartbeat and fluids. I started noticing heart symptoms with Asia when we started fluids, they have a blood test that can test for heart disease and tell you if further tests are warranted. Tagging some people with heart experience to weigh in. @Doodles & Karen @Wendy&Neko @Marje and Gracie

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

I'm so sorry you didn't get a diagnosis yet and he's still having trouble. Come on, Myagi, time to perk up, buddy!

I don't want to alarm you, but some of those symptoms sound like heart things to me, coughing coupled with rapid heartbeat and fluids. I started noticing heart symptoms with Asia when we started fluids, they have a blood test that can test for heart disease and tell you if further tests are warranted. Tagging some people with heart experience to weigh in. @Doodles & Karen @Wendy&Neko @Marje and Gracie

Thanks Love. the crf site made it sound like too much fluid could have heart impact that resolves if reduce the fluid (obviously only if caught soon enough). So hopefully this will pass for him. Prayers.

 

[Doodles & Karen]

Sigh....yes it could be a heart thing. Not eating, lethargy and the gagging/coughing. Doodles cardiologist told me cats with heart disease don't cough and I kept saying ..well Doodles does. There is a IDEXX test called CardioPet BNP which is about $200 and honestly the best way to DX heart/ CHF is an echocardiogram. X-rays sometimes will catch it. Hopefully this is not relevant and what ever is causing his issues resolves quickly. If he'll eat the EVO, let him...just my 2 cents.

 

[Stacy & Asia]

Sigh....yes it could be a heart thing. Not eating, lethargy and the gagging/coughing. Doodles cardiologist told me cats with heart disease don't cough and I kept saying ..well Doodles does. There is a IDEXX test called CardioPet BNP which is about $200 and honestly the best way to DX heart/ CHF is an echocardiogram. X-rays sometimes will catch it. Hopefully this is not relevant and what ever is causing his issues resolves quickly. If he'll eat the EVO, let him...just my 2 cents.

Odd that the cardiologist said that. Beenie also had a cough and it turned out to be heart problems.

There’s also a snap bnp, if your vet offers it, Heidi, it’s an in house lab, should be well less than $200 and is more like a yes/no to give you an indication if an echo is needed.

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

@Stacy & Asia @Doodles & Karen
Just held him on My chest fur a bit and his little heart is definitely distressed. I still hope this is resolved once he moves past the fluids I gave yesterday.
Yep, the syringe was so stressful to him, I just gave him ya mature and 13c. He ate about 1tbs of 13c, which is great. He ate quite a bit of ya mature. I know, "cats", but I really don't understand the food thing. He's clearly not completely off food due to dental or illness as he'll eat the dry, occasional chicken, tiny amounts of wet, and he has not vomited one time. Some of the syringe food he even seemed to like (before fluids). So if he's got appy pills and tummy pills and is ABLE to eat, why isn't he???? Btw, catnip, oregano, Bonita flakes, parmesan, etc have all been rejected 100% as ruining any chance of getting him to touch that portion of food! btw, Millie will probably weigh 2lbs more when Myagi finally feels better (because I pray He will), cause she is just running behind, hoovering everything he rejects

 

[Stacy & Asia]

The only thing I can think of about the food is, were those all foods your were trying to get him to eat pre vet (besides or including the evo)? Sometimes they could associate a food to being the cause of whatever made them feel bad and avoid it? Have you tried any wet food recently that he hasn't had previously or didn't have while he was avoiding food pre nausea and appy meds?

Can't blame Millie for being an opportunist but Myagi, are you really going to let her steal your food like that?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Doodles cardiologist told me cats with heart disease don't cough and I kept saying ..well Doodles does.

My civie Buster (GA) coughed in the weeks before his stromboembolism, turns out he had HCM. Unfortunately I thought it was a hairball but I learned the hard way it's something to watch out for. Neko's cardiologist also told me to bring her in right away if I heard coughing. She didn't. Neko had very mild HCM (enlarged heart) from her acromegaly, but no heart failure (fluid) for the longest time. It was starting fluids for her kidneys that set off her heart failure. Her initial symptom was inappetance. One good home test is the resting respiration rate or RR. Count the complete number breaths (in and out) per minutes, when he is resting. Ideally should be under 30.

So if he's got appy pills and tummy pills and is ABLE to eat, why isn't he????

Any chance he has nausea? That would be treated with either Cerenia or ondansetron. You don't want to give appy stims (cypro for example) to a cat with nausea, without treating nausea first. Or they can develop food adversions.

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

The only thing I can think of about the food is, were those all foods your were trying to get him to eat pre vet (besides or including the evo)? Sometimes they could associate a food to being the cause of whatever made them feel bad and avoid it? Have you tried any wet food recently that he hasn't had previously or didn't have while he was avoiding food pre nausea and appy meds?

Can't blame Millie for being an opportunist but Myagi, are you really going to let her steal your food like that?

Most were pre vet choices, today's 13c was new flavor (relatively speaking). The mature has been around as topper and Darnell just sent us some more evo. When I made the chicken, he yummed it up, now he'll only take little nibbles, he was excited about the baby food, now have to syringe it. I don't see association with vet as he started this prior, but maybe association with feeling unwell.

And yup, right now Myagi doesn't care what Millie does. He used to mimic her (being a grand dame and all) and drink water if she did, eat soup if she did, look at toys she plays with, eat from her dish... now nada... but we are not giving up hope!!!!

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

It was starting fluids for her kidneys that set off her heart failure. Her initial symptom was inappetance. One good home test is the resting respiration rate or RR. Count the complete number breaths (in and out) per minutes, when he is resting. Ideally should be under 30.

I can do that test!

Any chance he has nausea? That would be treated with either Cerenia or ondansetron. You don't want to give appy stims (cypro for example) to a cat with nausea, without treating nausea first. Or they can develop food adversions.

Could be. Didn't get discussed. He's never been a hairball cat and hasn't vomited so I don't know. I thought D was sending some ondanestron but she sent mertzipan (sp?) And cyproheptadine. Also miralax powder (for diarrhea??).

 

[Stacy & Asia]

Okay, I totally missed that, he's getting an appy stimulant and something else that isn't anti nausea. I thought it was appy and anti nausea.

That could be it for sure, if he's nauseated, the appy stimulant will make him hungry but he still won't want to eat if he's feeling sick. Have you noticed any lip licking? Or does he seem interested to eat the food, or tries, but then stops?

Miralax is for constipation, which could be another reason he isn't eating, if he's full of poo he might just feel uncomfortable and full.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

miralax powder

That's for constipati0n. You don't want to give miralax to a kitty when they have diarrhea.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Mirtazapine (mirtz for short), is another appy stim. Don't give it and cypro together - one negates the effectiveness of the other.

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

Mirtazapine (mirtz for short), is another appy stim. Don't give it and cypro together - one negates the effectiveness of the other.

Ya Jenna told me both not to give together and also not to bother with mirtz anyway.

So we've never had nausea issues in our home to speak of. Diarrhea, yes. Nausea, no. Rare hang over would have been dealt with with dry toast.
Tore house apart, we have tums (toxic to cats right?) And 2 25mg diphenhydramine (which is supposed to help nausea). @Wendy&Neko will that work? Cut in quarters?

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

That's for constipati0n. You don't want to give miralax to a kitty when they have diarrhea.

He has neither. Limited poop output seems directly correlated to limited food input.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

And 2 25mg diphenhydramine (which is supposed to help nausea)

I've never used it or heard of it being used for anti nausea. Side effects listed are inappetance. I would check with the vet before giving it, and also for dosing.

 

[JeffJ]

Healing vines to Myagi and you. I don't have recommendations or a diagnosis.

When we syringe-fed Leo, he stressed too. We used 10-12 paper towels each session, in addition to a towel. He didn't like it, but we were trying to get him healthy.

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

Healing vines to Myagi and you. I don't have recommendations or a diagnosis.

When we syringe-fed Leo, he stressed too. We used 10-12 paper towels each session, in addition to a towel. He didn't like it, but we were trying to get him healthy.

thanks, Jeff this breathing, heart stuff is scary so his stress is potentially less temporary in this instance. It's a difficult balancing act to be sure. I'm trying not to be hard on myself, but I'm the one who wanted fluids at home fur him (it made sense at time and for dehydration situation and inability to run him back and forth to vet) and I'm the one who gave him 200ml and now he's miserable and possibly harmed..... at least he doesn't mind the water via syringe and let's me keep loving on him.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

All that coughing and gagging worries me, too, having had cats with heart issues. How are his respirations?

Sometimes too much fluid can overwhelm a healthy heart and cause contraction issues. I’ve not seen it resolve on its own. IMHO, if he does it again, I’d get him to the vet ASAP.

I would follow your gut and lay off the fluids.

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

I've never used it or heard of it being used for anti nausea. Side effects listed are inappetance. I would check with the vet before giving it, and also for dosing.

Speaking with Jenna and Chris the consensus was it wouldn't hurt to try (is used fur nausea) and Jenna said 1mg per lb, so half pill. Gave it a shot, tonight and tomorrow morning and see.

Pmps 204 , 0.1u, 13c and evo and mature (if he felt good, he'd be in hog heaven!), hre only ate a tsp of wet but had a decent amount of kibble for insulin.
Antibiotic, appy med, diphenhydramine in pill pockets. Fought the pills crazy tonight. Amazing how many times you can watch them swallow and they still spit it out! 3 syringed waters. Btw refused chicken miss Millie cleaned his plate!

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

@Stacy & Asia famotidine for upset tummy/ acid. He's not full of poo he's not lip licking, but his interest in the food is varying. Some and still not eating and some followed by eating a little.

All that coughing and gagging worries me, too, having had cats with heart issues. How are his respirations?

Sometimes too much fluid can overwhelm a healthy heart and cause contraction issues. I’ve not seen it resolve on its own. IMHO, if he does it again, I’d get him to the vet ASAP.

I would follow your gut and lay off the fluids.

@Marje and Gracie
If I did the rr right he's pretty fast, about 60 @Wendy&Neko said Should be 30. But that's If I did it Right. He's definitely calmer and more comfortable than earlier. He is not whistling or rattling anymore. The fluids are still not completely absorbed. But he has no swelling in his legs or paws.
For sure no more sub q! I can wish the doc had said less, but I still gave it.
I'm heeding your middle comment.
Thanks fur being here

 

[Marje and Gracie]

@Stacy & Asia famotidine for upset tummy/ acid. He's not full of poo he's not lip licking, but his interest in the food is varying. Some and still not eating and some followed by eating a little.

@Marje and Gracie
If I did the rr right he's pretty fast, about 60 @Wendy&Neko said Should be 30. But that's If I did it Right. He's definitely calmer and more comfortable than earlier. He is not whistling or rattling anymore. The fluids are still not completely absorbed. But he has no swelling in his legs or paws.
For sure no more sub q! I can wish the doc had said less, but I still gave it.
I'm heeding your middle comment.
Thanks fur being here

You’re welcome. I have taken cats to the ER for high RR when it didn’t come down when the cat was really at rest for a bit. The other thing is that if he is lethargic and just not interested in anything, I might see if the vet can see him in the morning and listen to his heart. Better to be cautious.

I know you are watching him closely.