3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58, +6 74

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worldtraveller

Member Since 2011
Hi again!
we had a great green surfing day today :mrgreen:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=65941

Now comes the time to decide for the PM shot. Kitty is now 106 at +11, lower than at +11 this morning.
what to shoot: 1U / 0.75U /0.5 / stall? Another consideration to this is that I will be travelling from Monday to Friday and pet sitter does not test, so I need to give her a safe dose. I can monitor Kitty from now until tomorrow morning at +2 after the AM shot.

mia
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty +11 106, need advise for PM dose

as long as you're going to be around to monitor, hold the dose the same for your next shot.

so do i understand correctly that you have 2 more shots before you turn things over to the petsitter? i think the plan is to see what Mr Kitty does in the next 2 cycles and give you a new dose right before you go. the reason for that is that a lot can change in 2 cycles. what we're seeing is very good - to have him stay in all green numbers in the last cycle is fabulous.

we'll probably have you drop in half or so on the dose, or give him just a token dose (i don't know which yet) to keep Kitty safe when you leave. it wouldn't be a good idea for you to drop that far before you go, however, because his pancreas needs as much time as possible in these better numbers. if his pancreas is kicking into gear, we want to see it.

can you live with that plan? i know i was always trying to plan ahead at first, because it makes sense, but with these diabetic cats you make a lot of decisions at the time you are faced with them.
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty +11 106, need advise for PM dose

Good morning Julie!

Yes, I have 2 more shots to give myself, but in the morning I am leaving 2 hours after the morning shot and then pet sitter comes in the evening.

Are you suggesting to keep the 1U now and to keep an eye on him tonight, or to drop to 0.5U now?
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty +11 106, need advise for PM dose

i'm suggesting to keep the 1unit as the dose as long as you are home to monitor, until you see a number below 50. that might happen still while you are home, and that would change what we tell you for the petsitter.

so for now, hold the 1 unit and go in search of a below 50 number! :lol:
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty +11 106, need advise for PM dose

Another thought came to my mind: I did skip Friday PM and Saturday AM shots, so he has now had 1U for both Sat evening and Sun morning, and now his Sunday PMPS BG is likely close to 100. If Lantus is accumulating, would that mean that since 2 shots were missed, he has build the shed again, so need to be careful with the dosing? Just my common sense thinking ;-)
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty +11 106, need advise for PM dose

yes, probably so. how long do you have til shot time? i can ask for more input on it, but in general, we say hold a dose until you see below 50.

as long as you're home to monitor, i think that's the plan.
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124

I will be giving the shot in 15 min, his PMPS was 124. last night his PMPS was 202 but then it had been 36 hours since he had gotten insulin.

Keep your fingers crossed that this goes well .... nailbite_smile
I just gave him food, but he does not eat it yet as he for some reason wants to wait and eat later
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124

ok, hang on. i've asked sienne to come and weigh in with her thoughts. she has a lot more experience than me and she also has a cat that doesn't get tested when she travels.
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124

If it were me and my cat were in numbers that are this good, I'd reduce the dose tonight so you don't end up with low numbers before you're heading out for traveling. So, I'd reduce the dose to 0.5u until you return.
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124

Ok - will wait.
Last night Kitty had 56 at +2 after the PM shot.... I cannot believe that I am travelling again, just when this is getting so interesting with Kitty :smile:
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124

you and sienne posted at the same time - just want to make sure you see her comments. sounds like a good plan to me - a little less nerve-wracking than waiting til the last minute.

can you believe this is the same cat that you were shooting 4 units of caninsulin into 6 weeks ago? :-D
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124

Yes, I got Sienne's note, and it makes sense. I'd be worried if I had very low readings in the morning before I have to (which may also happen...). So, will do 0.5U now.

I am so amazed where we are now. It was just amazing to see all greens and blues today, also considering that I had just skipped 2 shots!! the wet food only impact is unbelievable - and I am starting to understand how Lantus works also. Just a pity that I am travelling so much (both next and following week, ugh), but hopefully after that I could stay at home at least for 2 weeks to make this right!

will keep you posted on tonight's readings. And - THANKS! I don't know where I would be without you :-D
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124

some people are really hard to teach - you're not one of them! thanks for being open to changing. it's a little crazy getting advice from The Internet Strangers, isn't it? i know when i found this site i felt an incredible relief. people here really understand the complexities of feline diabetes and how lantus works in the kitties.

are you gone for 2 weeks straight, then? or home in between?
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124

I'll gone from tomorrow morning to Friday evening, so that pet sitter will still give Fri PM shot. Then I will give shots from Sat morning to Tue morning and then be gone again until Sunday morning. So next weekend I have time to do the curves and adjust.

yes, it feels a bit strange to get advise from internet strangers, but most advise here makes sense and I have a lot of trust that people with experience know what they are taking about. This forum is just amazing. Thanks for being there!
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124

ok, i'm glad you'll be home to check in less than 2 weeks. cats who have a pancreas getting back into gear can still see action on .5u. he may need even less the second week.

if you've got spare time, you might look at the spreadsheets for atticus, simon, tiki, and mikey who's bean's screen name says miso00 - they are all on the dose reduction plan. atticus is officially off of insulin today! very exciting. just look at their dose changes over the past couple of months.

keep posting til you go - just so we can see how he's doing on this dose. i'll be curious! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112

After giving Kitty 0.5U (first time this low!!), his BG is now 112 at +1 PMPS.
He has not eaten much, though food has been available at the PM shot; his new wet-food-only style seems to be to wait a while and eat later. So food spikes are difficult to predict, at least for now...
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70

BACK TO GREENS ALREADY !?!?

AMPS 130: 1U
+3 67 :mrgreen:
+4 68 :mrgreen:
+5 83 :mrgreen:
+6 83 :mrgreen:
+7 95 :mrgreen:
+8 106 :smile:
+10 115 :smile:
+11 106 :smile:

PMPS 124: 0.5U
+1 112 :smile:
+2 70 :mrgreen:

I think I have to keep on eye on him.... He keeps on eating his evening meal in phases, still not finished....
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50

Look at this surfer boy:

AMPS 130: 1U
+3 67 :mrgreen:
+4 68 :mrgreen:
+5 83 :mrgreen:
+6 83 :mrgreen:
+7 95 :mrgreen:
+8 106 :smile:
+10 115 :smile:
+11 106 :smile:

PMPS 124: 0.5U
+1 112 :smile:
+2 70 :mrgreen:
+3 50 :mrgreen:
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50

he's a tease! 50? really kitty? not 49?

actually we'd be thinking this was left-over from the residual on the 1.0 unit dose - but it's great to see. i'd get a +3.5 . . . or even another 15 minutes (3.25) just in case he needs a hand.
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

Kitty has been a world champ surfer today: 58 at 4.5 after PMPS.

I am now worried about next week - is 0.5u safe for him next week since he's getting to these kind of low numbers?
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

this is likely the leftover action from the 1unit dose. lantus builds up in the body and we often see a delayed response to a dose reduction.

do we have time to see another cycle on the .5u and decide based on how he does then?
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

are you still certain there's no way your petsitter could test, even before shots? because it would be fairly straightforward to say "if it's below x, don't give insulin."
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

I am leaving 2 hours after the morning shot, so we don't have another cycle to test.
how about if I skip the morning shot (if his BG is in the low range) and then advise the pet sitter to give 0.5u for the rest of the week? Then at least the lantus will wear off a bit before the regular dosing starts again
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

Now I will not have time to teach her (it's 1:30am here, and I am leaving soon after the morning shot....). Shooot! I was not expecting kitty to do so well!!! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

let me get others with more experience to weigh in on this.

give us an hour or two to talk.
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

Thanks Julie! I'll test for +5 and then will test at +11 in the morning.
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

By the way - now I fully understand the warnings/advise that we have to be careful when transitioning from dry food to wet food only as the insulin need may change a lot. This is exactly what has happend with Kitty: he's gone from 2u to 0.5u in 5 days (though I realize this may not be completely stable situation yet)!
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

yes - it's one of those things that we tell people but they don't always fully get it. same thing with testing - i know i thought you would have a dose, give it twice a day and that was that. i didn't "get it" that the same dose would behave differently in the body at different times.

you really can't get complacent with a diabetic cat.

i've asked for some help on the vacation dose.
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

At +5 he is now 67. In During the day at +5 he was 83 if that gives any reference, so he seems to be heading for low morning reading also....
I have just started to wonder if there are other factors that could be making the readings so good these few days - anything else that could be "wrong" with Kitty? Is the meter working right? etc etc... what else should I check? Or is this really as good as it shows??
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

Mia --

You could skip in the AM and reduce the dose further to 0.25u if you'd prefer. If you do reduce to 0.25, please make sure to leave a sample syringe for your catsitter.
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

looks like kitty's pancreas is sputtering to life to me. needing less and less insulin is good. as i understand it, cats are the only animals who can have their pancreas heal. humans and dogs are out of luck, for the most part.

if he does go off of insulin, you have to still think of him as being a diabetic cat. he will always need low carb canned food, he will simply be diet-controlled. but that's getting ahead of us here, i'm just mentioning it.
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

mia - just wondering, do you have cans of high carb food there at your house right now?
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

Whoo hoo go Kitty. I recently missed 2 shots for Vyktor because he couldn't be monitored and I was too worried to give the insulin, he got back on track pretty quickly (but don't look at today's AMPS - yuck!)
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

Here are pictures of the tiny doses: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139

it would be helpful to use tea or colored water in your sample syringe for the petsitter to actually be able to see the dose.

the tricky thing is that we don't really know enough about what kitty needs. if he needs insulin it would be a mistake not to give it. if his pancreas kicks into gear, we don't want him to overdose. there's no crystal ball here to know what will happen in the next week. we always want to err on the side of safety, though. the rule of thumb is better to have him days too high than a moment too low.

so a few possibilities - you can consider the options/combinations and decide what you want to do.

~~reduce to the .25 as sienne suggested (i think you should definitely do this)

~~skip the monday morning shot so that the shed drains a little bit more

~~make high carb ice cubes and have the petsitter leave out one every time she shoots (mix the can of high carb cat food with water, freeze in ice cube trays - this only works if Kitty gets it instead of your other cat and will eat it cold) that would just be a little bit of insurance in case he got low in the first hours after the shot.

~~leave your petsitter with a video on how to hometest and give her a cut-off number. "if it's less than x, don't shoot." here is one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

~~skip some shots: this goes against everything we know about how lantus works, but skipping shots during the week would be another possibility. it would make a mess of the cumulative action of the lantus and when you get back and start testing next weekend, we wouldn't know much about how to advise for the following week. but it's another possibility for safety.

what do you think?
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

Thanks for thinking through the options....
I am still up, but have to go to bed now. Kitty is doing fine, BG slowly increasing, but still in greens. Looks like he might have a low AMPS reading. If AMPS is low (below 150 maybe), I think I will skip the shot, and then advise the pet sitter to give 0.25u. Perhaps I should also advise her to give some HC canned food at some point next week? This is a challenge also, as I am nt sure what I have (all texts are in Russian....) - just to make things more complicated!
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

Please remember to set up a syringe with a colored liquid so your petsitter can see what 0.25u looks like.
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58 ADVIS

pretty much everything with gravy in it is high carbs.

another thought - kitty should probably have access to low carb canned food all the time. many cats will feed themselves if they feel their blood sugar is getting low. the canned food is safe to leave out for 12 hours, then your petsitter can throw away any left when she comes for the next visit and leave more out again.

that's one more safety net we can suggest.

i will add that even though i suggested skipping shots, i'm not keen on it. it's not an ideal situation, i'm just tossing it out there for consideration.
 
Re: 3/11 Kitty PMPS 124, +1 112, +2 70, +3 50, +4.5 58, +6 7

It's Monday morning now, I just add a comment here to complete the thread of advise.

Good point about cats eating if they feel their blood sugar is getting lower. Last night I watched Kitty going back to the food plate all night. He did not start eating until about 1 hour after his shot and then at some. I think he finished the can in about 2 hours with breaks in between. I then gave another half can later which he together with Joey finished before I went to bed. So, wet food consumption is increasing with thes guys :smile: Thus, I will advise to leave 2 cans of wet food for both morning and evening.

Now, of course it will be odd to leave instructions about 0.25u dose - even I have not given that kind of low dose before :-D
 
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