26 Feb HELP PLEASE WITH PM DOSE FOR ROCKY

Status
Not open for further replies.
Marlena

Marlena

Very Active Member
That was a "funny" night last night! Let me explain in essence if I may:
yesterday's PMBG - I felt comfortable to give Rocky 0.75u and went to bed but woke up at 3 pm and gave him some food. He would not settle down and kept miaowing so I tested him and with horror saw number 1.5 on AlphaTrak meter! I can't tell you how I felt, it was awful! So' acting very swiftly glucose syrup went on the gums and more food and more food again (third portion) but Rocky acting very normal and just enjoying his party!
All I could see is dead cat in a matter of minutes. Rocky being Rocky - very greedy as always and kind of acting like there is nothing wrong got me thinking clear again. I grabbed the meter again to check that number and test again. The number (original one) was 15.1 but in my nightly stupor all I saw was 1.5! This diabetes dance makes me more insane than ever! At least the cat was having a ball!
High AMBG was expected.
Today he is in blue numbers and I need to check him again at +13 to see how much he is rising but I would really appreciate some advice as what to do with tonight's number so I will not loose my blues.
I don't have to sleep tonight, it's Saturday tomorrow - hurra!
Please give me some opinion @Elizabeth and Bertie and @Dr Schrodinger.
Many thanks
 
I can't give any dosing advice (not a doc). But I thought you might want to review the hypo symptoms, and if such a situation occurs again and you start to panic, observe your cat for listlessness and drowsiness, alertness, etc. You wrote, "Rocky acting very normal and just enjoying his party!" That was your signal that Rocky was okay.
 
Ken & Tara said:
I can't give any dosing advice (not a doc). But I thought you might want to review the hypo symptoms, and if such a situation occurs again and you start to panic, observe your cat for listlessness and drowsiness, alertness, etc. You wrote, "Rocky acting very normal and just enjoying his party!" That was your signal that Rocky was okay.
Click to expand...


Not all cats will show outward signs of a hypo so you can't always rely on that.

Last week my Tuxie hit a 1.7 (31 US) on AT2 meter cross-checked with FS Lite meter at 1.3 (23US). I knew he was dropping but dozed off and went an hour in between tests. Other than being VERY hungry he had no other signs of a hypo. The best way to avoid a hypo is by regular testing and retesting.

Marlena

Rocky is looking good!!! I hope you can get some good advice from your Hypurin "experts" :)
 
Hi Marlena,
Gosh, it sounds like you had quite a night!

I have to say that I feel Rocky has 'turned a corner' and this really is beginning to be an improving picture for him.

You've done (and are doing) a great job with him, Marlena. (And please don't beat yourself up about misreading the meter; the wee small hours of the morning can seem like an entirely different planet! ;) )

My best guess at this point is that you might see a continuing improvement in numbers. I actually thought that was the case after 18th Feb (and those low numbers), when it felt that the pattern had 'shifted' somewhat. It may be that Rocky did experience hypo numbers, and that can make cats more sensitive to insulin. (Or...maybe the fact that he had those low numbers was an indication that his body was beginning to heal.....?)
Marlena said:
Today he is in blue numbers and I need to check him again at +13 to see how much he is rising but I would really appreciate some advice as what to do with tonight's number so I will not loose my blues.
Click to expand...
Ha-ha, I wish it were that simple!
The most important thing (as I know you know) is that Rocky stays safe. Keeping him in nice numbers would be a bonus. If he does go higher than you'd like during the night that won't jeopardise any chance of future success; it's just one night...

And remember that you're now using Alphatrak (is that right?). The Alphatrak tends to read higher then human meters, so you may need to factor that into the equation. As to 'how much' you can factor that into the equation, well, 'the jury is out'; and it will probably be permanently 'out' because there is no exact comparison... In fact, given the changing picture, I would suggest that you stick with your usual meter, as that will give you a better picture of exactly how things are changing...

.
 
Ken & Tara said:
I can't give any dosing advice (not a doc). But I thought you might want to review the hypo symptoms, and if such a situation occurs again and you start to panic, observe your cat for listlessness and drowsiness, alertness, etc. You wrote, "Rocky acting very normal and just enjoying his party!" That was your signal that Rocky was okay.
Click to expand...
Thank you but I think I didn't make it clear enough that Rocky did not go into hypo! I have wrongly read the meter! I'm not sure that I understood you correctly when you said that I need to review hypo symptoms as from what I read the number on the meter is most important as some cats have hypo without symptoms. I could not accept Rocky's behaviour being normal as a sign that he is not in any danger.
Best regards,
Marlena XXX
 
Ken & Tara said:
I can't give any dosing advice (not a doc). But I thought you might want to review the hypo symptoms, and if such a situation occurs again and you start to panic, observe your cat for listlessness and drowsiness, alertness, etc. You wrote, "Rocky acting very normal and just enjoying his party!" That was your signal that Rocky was okay.
Click to expand...
No, that was my signal that I need to check the meter as something did not seem right.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi Marlena,
Gosh, it sounds like you had quite a night!

I have to say that I feel Rocky has 'turned a corner' and this really is beginning to be an improving picture for him.

You've done (and are doing) a great job with him, Marlena. (And please don't beat yourself up about misreading the meter; the wee small hours of the morning can seem like an entirely different planet! ;) )

My best guess at this point is that you might see a continuing improvement in numbers. I actually thought that was the case after 18th Feb (and those low numbers), when it felt that the pattern had 'shifted' somewhat. It may be that Rocky did experience hypo numbers, and that can make cats more sensitive to insulin. (Or...maybe the fact that he had those low numbers was an indication that his body was beginning to heal.....?)

Ha-ha, I wish it were that simple!
The most important thing (as I know you know) is that Rocky stays safe. Keeping him in nice numbers would be a bonus. If he does go higher than you'd like during the night that won't jeopardise any chance of future success; it's just one night...

And remember that you're now using Alphatrak (is that right?). The Alphatrak tends to read higher then human meters, so you may need to factor that into the equation. As to 'how much' you can factor that into the equation, well, 'the jury is out'; and it will probably be permanently 'out' because there is no exact comparison... In fact, given the changing picture, I would suggest that you stick with your usual meter, as that will give you a better picture of exactly how things are changing...

.
Click to expand...
Dear Eliz,
thank you very much my darling.
The meter thing - yes, it is AlphaTrack at the moment but I often use Accucheck at the same time and I have to tell you that the difference is small, less than 10 percent. For example tonight AlphaTrak read 6.4 and Accucheck 6.9. So all the information here regarding meters is very misleading and it worries me a little.
I have wrote a post about it pointing out that there are different human meters: some are calibrated for whole blood and some are calibrated for plasma just like pet meter is calibrated for plasma. In case of Accucheck Aviva the meter is still as it was long ago but the strips are calibrated for plasma. So human meters are not equal. I have tried few different ones but Accucheck is nearest to AlphaTrak and laboratory measurements.
So I feel confident that both meters serve me well, the reasons I use both are too complicated to delve at the moment.
I need to come up with a dose for Rocky for tonight.
Maybe 0.5u?
 
Marlena said:
Thank you but I think I didn't make it clear enough that Rocky did not go into hypo! I have wrongly read the meter! I'm not sure that I understood you correctly when you said that I need to review hypo symptoms as from what I read the number on the meter is most important as some cats have hypo without symptoms. I could not accept Rocky's behaviour being normal as a sign that he is not in any danger.
Best regards,
Marlena XXX
Click to expand...

Oh, you made it plenty clear! You're observing that the meter said she was hypo because you allegedly misread it, but that she didn't have any symptoms. You further wrote that you gave syrup before retesting. Perhaps next time a few deep breaths to relax would be helpful? The meter I have has a memory to review X number of past readings. Does your meter have that? Simply rechecking those may have been helpful.

BTW, I noted on your spreadsheet that on the mg/dL tab the numbers in question were missing, as well as a recent comment. Perhaps you should recopy those cell formulas.
 
Last edited:
Tuxedo Mom said:
Not all cats will show outward signs of a hypo so you can't always rely on that.

Last week my Tuxie hit a 1.7 (31 US) on AT2 meter cross-checked with FS Lite meter at 1.3 (23US). I knew he was dropping but dozed off and went an hour in between tests. Other than being VERY hungry he had no other signs of a hypo. The best way to avoid a hypo is by regular testing and retesting.

Marlena

Rocky is looking good!!! I hope you can get some good advice from your Hypurin "experts" :)
Click to expand...
Thank you, bless your heart
Marlena XXX
 
Ken & Tara said:
Oh, you made it plenty clear! You're observing that the meter said she was hypo because you allegedly misread it, but that she didn't have any symptoms. You further wrote that you gave syrup before retesting. Perhaps next time a few deep breaths to relax would be helpful? The meter I have has a memory to review X number of past readings. Does your meter have that? Simply rechecking those may have been helpful.

BTW, I noted on your spreadsheet that on the mg/dL tab the numbers were missing, as well as a recent comment. Perhaps you should recopy those cell formulas.
Click to expand...
yes, thank you, I panicked! we are humans after all! And yes, I had rechecked the meter's memory.
Many thanks for your input,
best regards
Marlena X
 
Marlena said:
For example tonight AlphaTrak read 6.4 and Accucheck 6.9. So all the information here regarding meters is very misleading and it worries me a little.
I have wrote a post about it pointing out that there are different human meters....
Click to expand...
Marlena said:
So human meters are not equal.
Click to expand...
Hi Marlena,

Yes, it certainly is the case that 'human meters are not equal'. Different brands can read differently, and different meters of the same brand can also read differently. This has been discussed on here a number of times over the years.

There is, as I said before, no direct comparison between the Alphatrak and human meters. There are just too many variables. Different human meters read differently, and I expect there may be variation within Alphatrak meters also; and some people use Freestyle strips with their Alphatrak meter, and...there's that oft quoted possible 20% variation in the test result.
Generally, Alphatrak meters seem to read higher than human meters. But I know from my own experience that it ain't always so.

There are members here who've done a lot of work comparing the results of their Alphatrak and their human meter (test done with the same drop of blood); and some do feel confident that because of that data - and because of the 'feel' they've developed by gathering the data - that they have a fair understanding of how their two meters compare.

Regarding low numbers I think we need to be very cautious and not assume that 'x' or 'y' number means that the cat is OK. (My own cat had his first symptomatic hypo immediately following a reading of 2.7 (48.6) on my One Touch meter; a number that many cats would be just fine at...).
And, as has been said above, not all hypos show symptoms early on. Some cats show symptoms when their blood glucose begins to drop low (perhaps they become very hungry); some show symptoms when the hypo is moderately advanced (as my cat did); but some do not show symptoms until the hypo is severe. (I recall the case of a UK member here whose cat was sitting happily next to her on the couch, and then suddenly fell on the floor and had a full hypoglycemic seizure.)
I prefer to act to raise low numbers even if there are no symptoms. 'Absence of symptoms does not mean absence of hypo.'

When we see an 'emergency situation' on the forum where a cat has low numbers on an Alphatrak it makes sense to assume that the Alphatrak is reading higher than a human meter would, and act accordingly. To do otherwise may put the cat at increased risk of hypoglycemia ('Better too high for a day than too low for a minute.).

When a cat is in higher numbers my own view is that the variation in the meter readings doesn't really matter. 'High is high'.
And anyway, it's not really about the individual numbers (unless they are low) but about the trends and patterns that those numbers illustrate....:rolleyes:


.....Sorry if this is a disjointed ramble. I think I need more coffee.... :coffee:

Eliz
 
Dear Eliz,
brilliant post, many thanks.
Rocky is good at the moment.
I hope you're OK.
Hugs
Marlena XXX
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi Marlena,

Yes, it certainly is the case that 'human meters are not equal'. Different brands can read differently, and different meters of the same brand can also read differently. This has been discussed on here a number of times over the years.

There is, as I said before, no direct comparison between the Alphatrak and human meters. There are just too many variables. Different human meters read differently, and I expect there may be variation within Alphatrak meters also; and some people use Freestyle strips with their Alphatrak meter, and...there's that oft quoted possible 20% variation in the test result.
Generally, Alphatrak meters seem to read higher than human meters. But I know from my own experience that it ain't always so.

There are members here who've done a lot of work comparing the results of their Alphatrak and their human meter (test done with the same drop of blood); and some do feel confident that because of that data - and because of the 'feel' they've developed by gathering the data - that they have a fair understanding of how their two meters compare.

Regarding low numbers I think we need to be very cautious and not assume that 'x' or 'y' number means that the cat is OK. (My own cat had his first symptomatic hypo immediately following a reading of 2.7 (48.6) on my One Touch meter; a number that many cats would be just fine at...).
And, as has been said above, not all hypos show symptoms early on. Some cats show symptoms when their blood glucose begins to drop low (perhaps they become very hungry); some show symptoms when the hypo is moderately advanced (as my cat did); but some do not show symptoms until the hypo is severe. (I recall the case of a UK member here whose cat was sitting happily next to her on the couch, and then suddenly fell on the floor and had a full hypoglycemic seizure.)
I prefer to act to raise low numbers even if there are no symptoms. 'Absence of symptoms does not mean absence of hypo.'

When we see an 'emergency situation' on the forum where a cat has low numbers on an Alphatrak it makes sense to assume that the Alphatrak is reading higher than a human meter would, and act accordingly. To do otherwise may put the cat at increased risk of hypoglycemia ('Better too high for a day than too low for a minute.).

When a cat is in higher numbers my own view is that the variation in the meter readings doesn't really matter. 'High is high'.
And anyway, it's not really about the individual numbers (unless they are low) but about the trends and patterns that those numbers illustrate....:rolleyes:


.....Sorry if this is a disjointed ramble. I think I need more coffee.... :coffee:

Eliz
Click to expand...
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Marlena, Rocky's numbers are looking really nice. Well done, you! :bighug:
.
Click to expand...
Feeling really positive, thank you!
 
Marlena @Marlena , are you going to be able to test a lot during the early part of the cycle tonight?
9 days ago you gave .75 unit at a higher preshot than tonight's and Rocky dropped to 2.9 at +4....? :nailbiting:

Eliz
 
Eliz,
last night his BG was the same and I gave a very slightly smaller dose of f0.5u and we only got yellow numbers, no drop only rise. So I'm hoping everything will be ok but i'm prepared just in case.
 
He seems quiet but more balanced, drinks less water.
But he is grooming himself a bit too much, he seems to like licking his hind legs and his tummy is almost bold and skin feels cold to touch. But it is nothing recent, he has been like that for a long time.
Why is he licking his tummy bold? I can't get to the bottom of it.
 
Eliz,
many thanks.
Definitely no fleas. Allergy - possible but difficult to diagnose. Most likely stress but i'll keep searching for answers.
Take care
Marlena XXX
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top