? 22 Dec - Gremlin (and Buster) questions.

Laura and Gremlin (GA)

Laura and Gremlin (GA)

Member Since 2015
Hello again!
No luck with getting the video to work. I may post it in the Facebook page. Or a shortened version.

I have two dilemmas!
Gremlin: Grem is on the tiniest dose of insulin so I can't drop it any lower, but he drops super low mid doses and off insulin his numbers creep up again. Do I just dose when his BGL is high and skip it when it's lower?
Also, since the amputation I've been finding after giving him insulin his back often feels wet. I'm not sure if it is due to having one shoulder blade and some of the insulin is getting pushed back out, or if it's normal and I can just feel it now that his hair is short. He still gets some insulin as his BGL drops mid shot.

Buster: So I know he's not diabetic but I need some advice please. He was recently hospitalised as he stopped eating, was vomiting and lethargic. The vet discovered he has a UTI and mild crystals in his urine. He was dosed with injection antibiotics and painkillers. He is to have another antibiotic injection in two weeks, then in another two weeks he needs to be tested again for infection and crystals. This cost me more than all bar one of Grem's surgeries! And I still have the further tests to pay for. They also gave me a really expensive bag of (horrible) prescription dry food to help get rid of the crystals but he HATES it. He'd rather not eat than eat anything with the food in it. Pretty sure the only times he's eaten is Grem's leftovers and when I've put something down for him completely separately. I don't know what to do. Does anyone know what will help reduce the crystals? I lost two babies many years ago to urinary crystals.

Thanks in advance!

Here is Buster
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Gremlin:
You could try giving only a drop of insulin or you could increase the number of carbs a bit to see if that helps. I don’t know what you are feeding at the moment but you could try upping the carbs about 5% and see if that helps stop the lows.


Buster:
The injection of antibiotics is not as suitable for a UTI as some of the oral antibiotics. If the first injection which lasts 2 weeks has not worked, I would ask for oral antibiotics. And the injections are a lot more expensive.
The injection of antibiotics is more for skin conditions and may not even treat the UTI.

With the dry prescription food you can take that back and you will get your money back. Just say he won’t eat it.
Sensible cat!
Dry food will do nothing good for the urinary system. It needs moisture and lots of it.
I would return to a wet diet (what are you feeding?) and add water to his meals if he will tolerate it.
Vets are given their nutritional training by the pet food companies and it never fails to amaze me how indoctrinated they are about prescription food.
 
I'm trying to only give Grem a drop. Even then he drops low. And I know I miss the lows all the time too. It's so hard!
He is on very low carb food. He does sometimes get some Buster's food (before the horrid food) which is slightly higher in carbs, it doesn't seem to make much difference but then, it's never much. I'll try actually feeding him a small amount of it. Thank you! That's such a great suggestion!
Grem eats Wellness Healthy Choice Morsels in Turkey and duck - low carb and low phos, and savoury salmon FF. Plus a small amount of tuna since the amputation as he lost his appetite. We're working on it. He's just being fussy now.

They are just going to give Buster the second injection, no testing until the four weeks are up.
I agree about the food! Dry food for urine problems?? Stupid. Buster is smart. I'll contact the vet tomorrow and arrange to return it.
Buster eats (when he is actually eating) a small amount of grain free dry food for breakfast, the rest of the day he has ocean whitefish and tuna pate FF and salmon feast in gravy grilled FF. Plus any of Grem's leftover Wellness Morsels. And sometimes Dine beef and liver tray.

Both Buster and Luna have gone off this most recent bag of dry food too. Usually they love it, I'm not sure what is different. I may need to contact the company about that too. But in saying that, there are currently three bowls in the kitchen with wet food left from dinner two hours ago. They're eating, just not much.

Food is so stressful.
 
I agree with Bron's suggestion of trying a drop of insulin and feeding alittle higher carb food if you can for Grem. When you shoot, do you hold the sryinge in his skin for a few seconds before you pull it out? That will help keep any insulin from coming back out.

Do you have d-mannose in Australia? It is a supplement you can buy that help with a UTI. It can be used for people or cats. You can buy it as a powder and give 1/4 of a teaspoon a couple of times a day mixed in food. I hope Buster gets better soon. Sending prayers.
 
I do hold the needle in for a few seconds. It's only been since the amputation so I'm not sure.

Yes, I'll try the higher carb food for Grem for a while to see if it helps to stabilise him a bit. I did have him off insulin for a couple of days but he jumped up this morning so back on he went!

My problem with feeding exclusively wet food is that it costs so much. They get the smallest amount of dry, it's about 1/4 of their food (none for Grem). I would have cut it out already if it wasn't so expensive to do so. I've got so many vet bills that I'm paying off now and Grem is on more regular medication (Meloxicam) now too. I'll switch Buster complely to wet for the next few weeks so I can try to clear up the crystals at least. This was his fourth vet visit in his life and he's 9! He got fixed, check up, dental and now this. He's definitely not a pro like Grem!!

I read Dr. Lisa's article when Grem first became diabetic, I switched B & L's dry food then and reduced the amount. They also get better wet food than before. Four years since changing everything. Grem, of course, only gets food suitable for his diabetes and CKD. That he'll also eat. Fussy!

I'm not sure about d-mannose. We have Ural which is a powder that I have had for UTIs. I'll look into the d-mannose. Does it help with crystals as well?
 

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Dr. Lisa (the vet with the website with the food chart) has an excellent section on the site about urinary issues. Dry food is a problem. You might want to read this over and talk to your vet.

It sounds like the antibiotic Buster was given is Convenia. I have no clue why vets like this antibiotic other than it lasts for over 2 weeks and you don't have to pill your cat. Its only indication for use is for skin infections. It is very risky to use. Because it's long acting, if your cat is allergic to it (and an allergic response doesn't always happen with first time use), once it's in, you can't get it out. There's no way to neutralize the antibiotic. My vet won't use it. In addition, do you know if the vet got a sterile urine sample (i.e., inserted a needle into Buster's bladder -- it's called cystocentesis) and ran a culture and sensitivity so you know which antibiotic is appropriate to treat the infection?

Meloxicam - first, it shouldn't be expensive. It's a human non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug and is available in generic form. Second, it carries a black box warning from the FDA regarding its use in cats. The manufacturer of Metacam (one of the brands that's been on the market for some time) put a waning on the package insert and sent out information to vets in 2010. It can cause acute renal failure and in some cases, death. It can be used somewhat safely in a relatively low dose for a brief time post-surgery. If Gremlin is still being prescribed meloxicam, you really do need to have a talk with your vet. I'd also encourage you to suggest that your vet to run kidney values free of charge if you weren't given informed consent about the use of a drug carrying a black box warning. (A black box warning is one step before a drug is pulled off the market due to harm-causing side effects.) I linked the notice from one of the veterinary associations so your vet should have known about this.

You might want to see if you can find a cat food your kitties like that comes in the biggest cans possible. I believe Friskies comes in a large can (bigger than 7 oz -- 12 oz?). The bigger cans are much more economical.
 
Sienne, Buster was given a full urinalisis with all the things, plus a full blood panel was run. I'm not sure why the injection was given instead of pills though.
He's refusing all dry food and guzzling water so that's no longer an issue.

Grem on Meloxicam. He has CKD so he regularly has kidney values run. He's on Meloxicam as recent studies have proven that Meloxicam is actually beneficial in lowering the risk of CKD which Gremlin has proved as his kidney values are going backwards with every test he has. He's actually improving! And he can't have Gabapentin as he reacts to it. Meloxicam is expensive when you already pay for insulin, diabetic supplies, expensive foods, three major surgeries in one year, plus more cat bills and supplies. And have an autistic teenage son on top. Plus are a single mother who can only work part time due to having chronic fatigue syndrome. I can't afford to feed all my cats a strictly wet food diet.

I can't get Friskies here. And Gremlin is fussy. I've tried so many different foods, it's ridiculous. I'm not changing his food again. I just need them to eat.
 
You don't sound grumpy!!

Just an FYI - a urinalysis can be done without having a cystocentesis. As long as there was a sterile ample and a culture and sensitivity run, then all is good! There are antibiotics besides Convenia that come in injections.

I didn't initially catch that you were in Australia. Sorry! The dosing and use of NSAIDs like meloxicam is different outside of the US. It appears that non-US vets are much less heavy handed with their dosing and dion't run into the same issues with kidney failure as has happened in the US.

I know the costs for running labs for Buster isn't cheap. The problem with UTIs that it's not always clear if they are in the urinary tract itself or in the kidney. If the latter, a longer course of antibiotics is needed.

I wasn't necessarily suggesting you change foods. If what you're feeding comes in bigger cans, it may be more economical. I'm not at all familiar with what's available in your part of the world so it may be an irrelevant suggestion. It really sounds like you have your hands full.
 
Thank you! :woot: I do have my hands full. Buster was one more complication (and cost) I really didn't need! Especially at Christmas. But such is life and having kids and pets. I'll suck it up! :joyful:

The tests Buster had were complete body function plus T4, and urinalysis - dipstick/USG/microscopy. The urine was not taken direct from his bladder but it was from a sterile tray, with no litter, immediately after urination. He had been on IV fluids so was peeing a lot. I'm sure I recall her saying they did a culture on the urine but I could be wrong. I just heard crystals and panicked.
I don't think they're concerned about Buster's kidneys and I believe everything was fine on his blood work except signs of a mild infection. I was told that they will re-run tests after four weeks of antibiotics and if there are still signs of infection or crystals, further steps will be taken including different antibiotics.
The antibiotic injection he had was Cefovecin. As well as a small dose of Meloxicam.

That's really interesting about Meloxicam in different countries! Grem isn't even on the recommended dose for his body weight. It's just enough to help him get around better with less pain. Gabapentin not only made him drowsy to the point of barely functioning, but it also gave him facial seizures and body twitches. He was not a happy kitty!

Unfortunately what I'm feeding doesn't come in bigger sizes. Fancy Feast and Wellness sachets. I wish they came bigger!! :arghh: There's not too many food option here that are in bigger sizes. It's ridiculous! The amount of little cans I go through a day for only three cats... I really hate all the waste!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Sheba had metacam for 2 years and it was a life saver for her. I reduced her dose to 1/2 the recommended dose and she was fine on that.
Click to expand...
Grem was on 3kg dose before surgery, went to 5kg dose after and is now on 4kg. I'll reduce to 3kg again when he's a bit stronger on three legs. He's actually about 6kg!

Aww, Sheba. Beautiful girl. RIP.

Grem is my second cat to be on it long term and it was definitely a life saver for my Buzz. He had a benign tumour in his bladder that caused him to wee a lot (with blood in it) which in turn made him anaemic. A year or two before he passed, he was poisoned by an ex neighbour with rat bait and almost died. After that he also had a heart murmur (he loved the meds for his heart and the Meloxicam, such a weird boy) and some brain damage. But he was also an amazing cat and a fighter! My soul mate. I'll never forget my Buzz and it will never stop hurting having him gone. RIP.
 
Vines to Buster. I hope he feels better soon. Poor Buzz being poisoned with rat bait. That is a terrible thing to do.

I reduced the dose if metacam slowly over time and it was still affective.
Happy Christmas to you and your family
 
Merry Christmas to you and your family as well!!!

My work is currently in lockdown due to a gastro outbreak so I'm trying to be as cheery as possible!
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