2/9 AMPS 471, Partial fur shot, +11.5 176, PMPS 240, +2 376, +4 477, +8 551

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Sean & Rufus

Sean & Rufus

Member Since 2018
You guys,

Rufus had a partial fur shot this am. He jerked away from as I was injecting him. Out of the 5.5 he was supposed to get, I know there was .5 in the syringe that he didn't get, and also he had some on his fur. I'm guessing he got 3 to 4 units. Also, this is only his second time in the blue. Obvious bouncing going on, should I give him full 5.5 units now?

Wednesdays condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...this-low-1-5-381-3-449-8-550-pmps-569.190820/
 
You're right at shot time, right? As long as you have enough testing supplies and high carb food on hand, I would be inclined to shoot his 5.5U. Even with the furshot today, part of what brought him to the blues tonight is the Lantus dept. Blues and greens are good - and look at Rufus breaking the bounce! Of course, if you shoot, don't be surprised if he bounces again...but with any luck, he'll start getting used to these numbers!

With all that said, I'm not able to stay with you guys for too terribly long if you do shoot - I can check in again probably in about a half an hour or so, but after that I'm not sure. Usually there are others around who can help you along, but since we all volunteer, it's not a guarantee. So, please do whatever you are comfortable with.
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
You're right at shot time, right? As long as you have enough testing supplies and high carb food on hand, I would be inclined to shoot his 5.5U. Even with the furshot today, part of what brought him to the blues tonight is the Lantus dept. Blues and greens are good - and look at Rufus breaking the bounce! Of course, if you shoot, don't be surprised if he bounces again...but with any luck, he'll start getting used to these numbers!

With all that said, I'm not able to stay with you guys for too terribly long if you do shoot - I can check in again probably in about a half an hour or so, but after that I'm not sure. Usually there are others around who can help you along, but since we all volunteer, it's not a guarantee. So, please do whatever you are comfortable with.
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Was just speaking with a friend on facebook who is a vet tech. she recommeneded to hold off until am shot. This is so confusing. Really really interesting that the lower dose got him in the blues, especially both times pre0shot. Oh what to do!
 
I just dont know if I can stay awake. Im so tired. Oh gosh. My guess is he'll probably skyrocket. How late would I have to keep checking on him if I shoot?
 
Sean & Rufus said:
I just dont know if I can stay awake. Im so tired. Oh gosh. My guess is he'll probably skyrocket. How late would I have to keep checking on him if I shoot?
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If any of us could predict things like that...

He very well may bounce and how low he goes and for how long is really up to him. However, you can always carb him up at a certain point if it looks like he isn’t going to budge and you need some sleep.
 
I do agree with Stacy...those first lower numbers are scary, but a good thing. If you skip, you could lose the momentum. If you have supplies and are able to test and intervene with high carb food if necessary, this is an excellent opportunity to collect data and hopefully move Rufus away from bouncing and towards regulation. But, you hold the syringe... you have to be comfortable.

With regards to checking on him after you shoot, the numbers will dictate that. Many of us have had a love/hate relationship with our alarm clocks!

BTW, it was most likely the Lantus depot coupled with the bounce breaking that got him to the blues tonight. Lantus is not like the quick in-and-out insulins; instead, it works over time.
 
Sean & Rufus said:
OK. At what number on a pet meter should I freak out at? 60's ?
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The “action” number for Alphatrak is 68, you want to keep him above that number. It’s not a freak out number, it’s a keep him safe number. The freak out number depends on the cat and we don’t want to find out what that number is, thus the safety number.
 
If this is a weekend for you, coming up, I would take advantage of being able to go back to bed tomorrow morning (after AMPS), and seeing what he has been doing on this dose all this time when you weren't testing.
 
Sean & Rufus said:
So if I get a reading around 68, give him some treats?
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The preference is different carb wet food. Sometimes they will “surf” if you just feed them some of the food they normally eat. Sometimes you want a medium or high carb wet food if they need it, sometimes it’s honey, corn syrup or maple syrup. If you give treats, like temptations, or any dry food, it could take a lot longer to work out of their system. Do you have things like this on hand as well as testing supplies/strips?
 
Stacy & Asia said:
The preference is different carb wet food. Sometimes they will “surf” if you just feed them some of the food they normally eat. Sometimes you want a medium or high carb wet food if they need it, sometimes it’s honey, corn syrup or maple syrup. If you give treats, like temptations, or any dry food, it could take a lot longer to work out of their system. Do you have things like this on hand as well as testing supplies/strips?
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I do have all of those things. So Rufus was 172, ate hid dinner, now he's at 240 and I gave him 5.5 units. I'm going to set my alarm just in case I fall asleep.

Btw, he's really been "noticing" me giving shots lately. What's up with that? Use used to give a quick meow if he felt it, but then didn't care. Now he gives me a meow and pulls away. My Rufus is too damn smart for his own good :)
 
Sean & Rufus said:
@Stacy & Asia, can I ask did Asia stop eating, or have a hard time eating dry food around the time the tooth resorption came on?
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It’s been a really long time, I can’t quite remember the exact chain of events, nothing screamed teeth though, I’ll say that, to me or my vet. She still ate, but she got very, very sick and we didn’t know why. She became quiet, eventually lethargic and walked drunk, she had a raging infection and we didn’t know it was from her teeth, she didn’t respond to antibiotics or fluids or many of the things we tired, but she never stopped eating that I recall unless it was the very last couple of days and she was sick for weeks before that.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
It’s been a really long time, I can’t quite remember the exact chain of events, nothing screamed teeth though, I’ll say that, to me or my vet. She still ate, but she got very, very sick and we didn’t know why. She became quiet, eventually lethargic and walked drunk, she had a raging infection and we didn’t know it was from her teeth, she didn’t respond to antibiotics or fluids or many of the things we tired, but she never stopped eating that I recall unless it was the very last couple of days and she was sick for weeks before that.
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Thanks. Rufus has lost 3 teeth in the last 3 months. Wouldn't eat dry for a month. Times before and after that month he'd try, and it would fall out and he'd chew on his side. They don't think he has teeth problems, at least by visually looking at them. They think was/is pain from the pancreatitas. And right now he'll only liquified wet food, but he'll eat chruncy treats. So strange, but I was think he might have tooth resporbtion going on.
 
Sean & Rufus said:
Thanks. Rufus has lost 3 teeth in the last 3 months. Wouldn't eat dry for a month. Times before and after that month he'd try, and it would fall out and he'd chew on his side. They don't think he has teeth problems, at least by visually looking at them. They think was/is pain from the pancreatitas. And right now he'll only liquified wet food, but he'll eat chruncy treats. So strange, but I was think he might have tooth resporbtion going on.
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It's worth taking care of that when you can, I don't know with diabetes in the picture, how you go about it. You might want to have him somewhat more regulated before having that surgery. If it is that and he has extractions, he will feel like a brand new cat when they are gone! Asia had a second kittenhood at age 13 when those teeth came out! We were finally tipped off to the teeth because she drooled some blood, she doesn't let you go in her mouth easily but they sent me photos of the surgery and this is not her, but most of her teeth looked like the red one in this photo, you could barely see any tooth, it looked like a lot of inflamed gum growing over her teeth.

IMG_2781.JPG
 
Sean & Rufus said:
I do have all of those things. So Rufus was 172, ate hid dinner, now he's at 240 and I gave him 5.5 units. I'm going to set my alarm just in case I fall asleep.

Btw, he's really been "noticing" me giving shots lately. What's up with that? Use used to give a quick meow if he felt it, but then didn't care. Now he gives me a meow and pulls away. My Rufus is too damn smart for his own good :)
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Great shooting!

He might be noticing his shot lately because Lantus can sting a little and his dose is getting a little bigger.

Surf it, Rufus!
 
Good job shooting. I used to not go to bed, but lay on the couch and keep my cell phone alarm on the coffee table in front of me. If I went to bed, I would occasionally find my cell phone alarm under my pillows or turned off in my sleep. :oops:
 
Stacy & Asia said:
It's worth taking care of that when you can, I don't know with diabetes in the picture, how you go about it. You might want to have him somewhat more regulated before having that surgery. If it is that and he has extractions, he will feel like a brand new cat when they are gone! Asia had a second kittenhood at age 13 when those teeth came out! We were finally tipped off to the teeth because she drooled some blood, she doesn't let you go in her mouth easily but they sent me photos of the surgery and this is not her, but most of her teeth looked like the red one in this photo, you could barely see any tooth, it looked like a lot of inflamed gum growing over her teeth.

View attachment 34154
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Yeah, nobody visually see's anything with the teeth. Regular vet won't do the dental, so have to see a dental specialist who won't do xrays until fructosamine comes back in the "fair" range. Low end estimate is $1600, and that's with no extractions. Ugh. He has been eating a little more dry lately so maybe it is his pancreatitues. I have an appt on Wed with chief of med at a specialty vet group. They are going to bring in the dentist too and we'll all get a plan going. I'm really excited to get the ball going on him, but the $$$ are another thing!
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
Great shooting!

He might be noticing his shot lately because Lantus can sting a little and his dose is getting a little bigger.

Surf it, Rufus!
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That's what I heard. right around 5 or 6 it can sting. Tonight had to give him 2 temptations to occupy him while injecting. I sat there for nearly 5 minutes beforehand trying to poke him.
 
Dyana said:
Good job shooting. I used to not go to bed, but lay on the couch and keep my cell phone alarm on the coffee table in front of me. If I went to bed, I would occasionally find my cell phone alarm under my pillows or turned off in my sleep. :oops:
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Uh oh! Yeah, I'm going to be tired, but this will be so worth it if it moves us in the right direction!
 
Sean & Rufus said:
Yeah, nobody visually see's anything with the teeth. Regular vet won't do the dental, so have to see a dental specialist who won't do xrays until fructosamine comes back in the "fair" range. Low end estimate is $1600, and that's with no extractions. Ugh. He has been eating a little more dry lately so maybe it is his pancreatitues. I have an appt on Wed with chief of med at a specialty vet group. They are going to bring in the dentist too and we'll all get a plan going. I'm really excited to get the ball going on him, but the $$$ are another thing!
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I don't even remember the final bill, but the reason Asia still has those 2 teeth in the back is because they were unaffected at the time and it was something like $500-$600 a tooth to extract them! It's so worth it having a dental specialist though.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
I don't even remember the final bill, but the reason Asia still has those 2 teeth in the back is because they were unaffected at the time and it was something like $500-$600 a tooth to extract them! It's so worth it having a dental specialist though.
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Yeah, they have all the equipment especially for diabetic cats, if something were to happen during surgery. What's money anyways, can't take it with us :) And he's definelty worth it.
 
Okay, you can update your SS to reflect that and say 172 +11.5 and 240 +12.25 or whatever part of the hour it was and color the cells yourself. It's important for future reference to know if you stalled and by how much, it affects the data sometimes.
 
Usually the pmps is like +11.5/11.75 Just because I have to make his food and then let him eat and then shoot. So like 6:45 pmps, prepare food and eat, shoot at 7:15
 
Bounce! It's okay, it happens. The more he gets used to the lower numbers, hopefully the less bouncing will happen.
 
Tricky thing is, when bounces break, they tend to get a lot of downward momentum, that's another reason testing is so important, you may think he's high, high, high, what's the point? And then boom, down he will come like he did today. You want to catch those, especially as his numbers start to trend lower because then, bounce breaking can push them past the safety number...you don't have to ask me how I know this...it's all in my SS. :smuggrin:
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Tricky thing is, when bounces break, they tend to get a lot of downward momentum, that's another reason testing is so important, you may think he's high, high, high, what's the point? And then boom, down he will come like he did today. You want to catch those, especially as his numbers start to trend lower because then, bounce breaking can push them past the safety number...you don't have to ask me how I know this...it's all in my SS. :smuggrin:
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Thanks! it sure is hard to see it looks worse with the insulin. I guess like you said it kind of is normal as good body is trying to figure itself out. So weird too that he acts better with the higher numbers.

Ill keep testing. Get some good data to figure it ouy.
 
Sean & Rufus said:
Thanks! it sure is hard to see it looks worse with the insulin. I guess like you said it kind of is normal as good body is trying to figure itself out. So weird too that he acts better with the higher numbers.

Ill keep testing. Get some good data to figure it ouy.
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Not weird at all he acts better with higher numbers, that's pretty common as well. He is used to the higher numbers, his body has decided that is normal now. Asia was the exact same way, she was so sleepy in lower numbers, now it's the exact opposite. Just have to reprogram things a bit and he will start to like the normal numbers again. ;)
 
+8 551. Also, in all that was going on, forgot to give him his ondansetron. Quite a bit of lip smacking going on. Not sure if for that, or from pain. Guessing from nausea but nothing is clear to me anymore.o_O
 
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Rufus is quite the bouncer, that’s for sure. But you’re starting to see some blues in there and that is great.

The lip smacking is from nausea...poor guy. I hope the onda kicked In quickly.
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
Rufus is quite the bouncer, that’s for sure. But you’re starting to see some blues in there and that is great.

The lip smacking is from nausea...poor guy. I hope the onda kicked In quickly.
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Yeah this bouncing stuff kind of makes sense, but man, I am a little lost. Both times of blue where close to end of cycle. Give him his insulin and the numbers climb. Or give him a partial shot and they creep down. I'm really wondering if next time he has a blue right around shot time if I don't give it to him how the numbers will be. I guess I just haven't see this because it's all new to me. I hope you guys have seen this before!
 
Sean & Rufus said:
Yeah this bouncing stuff kind of makes sense, but man, I am a little lost. Both times of blue where close to end of cycle. Give him his insulin and the numbers climb. Or give him a partial shot and they creep down. I'm really wondering if next time he has a blue right around shot time if I don't give it to him how the numbers will be. I guess I just haven't see this because it's all new to me. I hope you guys have seen this before!
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Correlation does not equal causation. His numbers are not climbing because you gave him insulin. His numbers are climbing because he is bouncing and giving insulin isn’t stopping the bouncing dead in its tracks. Last night, the 172 you saw, there was probably a lower number in the cycle somewhere before that, can’t know for sure, but likely that there was a lower number and the 172 and then 240 were already a bounce in progress. He continues to go up until he doesn’t, then the bounce breaks and he goes down.

He is very panicked over those blue numbers and his body is reacting. Next time he has a blue, if you don’t shoot, he will continue to go up, just like he did with insulin, he may even come down at some point because of the depot action from previous shots, but all it will do is ensure he will have higher numbers for longer, if not in the immediate cycles, then in later ones. Keep plugging along, this is chess, not checkers. Go check out other people’s SS and see what it looked like when their kitty started insulin. When Asia’s numbers were super ugly at first, I had to focus on her behavior and little things that were improving, because the numbers hadn’t caught up yet. Is he drinking and peeing less? Is he gaining back and weight he had lost? Look for the good stuff, record it in your SS in the comments and remind yourself that he is making progress.
 
Thanks for the reassurance. I've been saying for almost a month that he seems so much better, but the number aren't reflecting it. His water consumption is hard to gauge. He has for his whole life had a love of water. Drinking from the bathroom sink, from the tub faucet, his fountains, water glass on the coffee table. He's definelty drinking less then at the height of it. He did gain .5 pounds back, which is good and bad.

The scary thing is for the first 8 weeks or so, we only checked his number 1 time per week, except 1 curve 1 time (at the vet) and went off of what that number was. We could have had all kinds of numbers not being seen. My old vet with whom I'm going back to, says they don't even do curves there at the office because of all of the influences there. Just seems terribly irresponsible for a vet to discourage home testing. Missing out on tons of data.
 
Sean & Rufus said:
The scary thing is for the first 8 weeks or so, we only checked his number 1 time per week, except 1 curve 1 time (at the vet) and went off of what that number was. We could have had all kinds of numbers not being seen. My old vet with whom I'm going back to, says they don't even do curves there at the office because of all of the influences there. Just seems terribly irresponsible for a vet to discourage home testing. Missing out on tons of data.
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It is scary, I think a good majority of us started out shooting blind per our vet’s instructions. I’m thankful my cat was resilient in my time of ignorance! Your old vet sounds much more aware of current FD information, that’s such a good thing, I wish it were a lot more common. I don’t think vets have any malice in what they are doing, they were trained a certain way about FD and when you know better, you do better...hopefully. I also think there’s a sad chunk of humans that would surrender or put to sleep their diabetic cat if the care was overly complicated, vets have to settle on something that works okay on most rather than very well for the few that are up for the challenge. The part that bugs me is when the vet isn’t happy and enthusiastic to meet those of us that are willing to go the extra mile and be invested and instead wants to talk us out of testing, what?! o_O

Sean & Rufus said:
And thank you for sticking it out with me overnight and checking back in on me. And for the great advice and encouragment. Definelty appreciated :)
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You’re welcome, I’ve kept many beans company in the wee hours all thanks to Asia and her antics. ;)
 
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