? 2-8-22 Leo AMPS 125/ +1 113/ +3 74/ +4 75/ +5 64/ + 7.5 75/ PMPS 98/ +2 101/ +3 105

What a great number!
He sure is gorgeous. Not really white, but caramel colored? Need to see more photos ;)
If you have trouble getting to Harbor Freight, you can always just utilize Amazon. My husband bought these for work years ago, said they work well, and now I’ve absconded with them.
NEIKO 01407A Electronic Digital Caliper
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GSLKIW
 
Leo's +3@74 qualifies as a dose reduction tonight? Just checking.
Thank you.

  • Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately."
 
Yes, if you are following SLGS, that is a dose reduction to 1U from tonight. Please feed a little of his normal food and test again in an hour or two.

If you can follow TR, you would hold the dose. TR is a more aggressive protocol, but it enables you to keep him at a dose where he sees good numbers. The more time he spends in normal numbers (50-100 mg/dl on a human meter), the better his chances of his pancreas healing. However, with TR, you need to get at least 4 tests a day - 2 preshots and 2 mid-cycle. More in cycles likes this morning where there is action.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Yes, if you are following SLGS, that is a dose reduction to 1U from tonight. Please feed a little of his normal food and test again in an hour or two.

If you can follow TR, you would hold the dose. TR is a more aggressive protocol, but it enables you to keep him at a dose where he sees good numbers. The more time he spends in normal numbers (50-100 mg/dl on a human meter), the better his chances of his pancreas healing. However, with TR, you need to get at least 4 tests a day - 2 preshots and 2 mid-cycle. More in cycles likes this morning where there is action.
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Thank you for the confirmation!
+4=75
Leo gets Pure Bites treats after BG tests, but no interest in food. He's sleeping now on top level of cat tree.
 
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Mom of 3 Fur Babies said:
Is 64 scarey at +5?
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No but it means you need to give him a little LC and monitor. Test now if you didn’t test at +6.. Need to see where he is going up down or flat. You may then also need another test. This is an active cycle so requires some vigilant monitoring. Want to help him stay green but be on the watch through testing for going too low a bit later.

Also can you please tell me when you are feeding him this cycle, how much each time, and carb % of food. It is hard to know how he is responding when no food details on spreadsheet.
 
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I just saw Leo's SS as you see it. My food comments in the cell do not show. I'll figure out how to add more verbiage without obliterating the cell color according to BG. It's easier for me to use the mobile rather than the laptop. It's a stupid MS issue using my right hand. Strength & dexterity are not great.
 
Mom of 3 Fur Babies said:
I just saw Leo's SS as you see it. My food comments in the cell do not show. I'll figure out how to add more verbiage without obliterating the cell color according to BG. It's easier for me to use the mobile rather than the laptop. It's a stupid MS issue using my right hand. Strength & dexterity are not great.
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You can put them in the remarks column if that's easier for you :cat:
 
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
No but it means you need to give him a little LC and monitor. Test now if you didn’t test at +6.. Need to see where he is going up down or flat. You may then also need another test. This is an active cycle so requires some vigilant monitoring. Want to help him stay green but be on the watch through testing for going too low a bit later.

Also can you please tell me when you are feeding him this cycle, how much each time, and carb % of food. It is hard to know how he is responding when no food details on spreadsheet.
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See my prior comment. I'm feeding him a little, a lot more frequently, spoonful here or more there of Pro Plan True Nature and FF Tender Beef & Chicken Feast (pate) (there are other brands of plates in thr kitty pantry). Pure Bites for treats afterwards. Of course I give a full can of FF, and a portion of the 5.5 can as we feed all three kitties the same food. Then they end of switching bowls sometimes. Leo doesn't seem to eat all three ounces or the other food at the same time.... walks away and comes back-sometimes--takes another catnap. While before the diagnosis, we fed 12 hours apart, but now it's definitely more often! He doesn't feel or look as boney.
 
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Mom of 3 Fur Babies said:
See my prior comment. I'm feeding him a little, a lot more frequently, spoonful here or more there of Pro Plan True Nature and FF Tender Beef & Chicken Feast (pate) (there are other brands of plates in thr kitty pantry). Pure Bites for treats afterwards. Of course I give a full can of FF, and a portion of the 5.5 can as we feed all three kitties the same food. Then they end of switching bowls sometimes. Leo doesn't seem to eat all three ounces or the other food at the same time.... walks away and comes back-sometimes--takes another catnap. While before the diagnosis, we fed 12 hours apart, but now it's definitely more often! He doesn't feel or look as boney.
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Thanks for this. What carb % is the Pro Plan? I know the FF pates are very low which is good. And what % are the treats?

You can write the food comments in the cell. It will wipe out the color but you can go to the top of the chart and add the color back in manually. Not sure if this option is easier for you than using the comments area or not.

Do you also have MC and HC food in your house for when it will be needed on this journey?
 
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Joni I see you shot green last night. This is great but as you’re new to this, want to make sure you get help and input. I would have caught a +5 or +6 test last night. Maybe even a +8 if the +5/6 was green. Some cats go lower in the night cycles than the day cycles. And we also still don’t know where his NADIR is at - early or mid or late in the cycle. It can move around sometimes too.

Just wanting to prepare you as you start to see more greens and learn and get help from others on what that means for monitoring.
 
Also Joni one more from me - if you’re doing SLGS. I believe the guidance is no shot with an PS of under 150.

Of course if you’d like to do TR, you may find that you can get Leo regulated well on that - and you do shoot safe greens on TR (generally TR is much better and more successful than SLGS in terms of kitty in green numbers). However it does require vigilance in active cycles, which can sometimes be tough. I know that others can help if you’re nervous about TR but don’t want to stay SLGS or potentially need some kind of in between.

Tagging some others so they see this.
@Bandit's Mom @tiffmaxee
 
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Margaret (and Pearl) said:
Thanks for this. What carb % is the Pro Plan? I know the FF pates are very low which is good. And what % are the treats?

You can write the food comments in the cell. It will wipe out the color but you can go to the top of the chart and add the color back in manually. Not sure if this option is easier for you than using the comments area or not.

Do you also have MC and HC food in your house for when it will be needed on this journey?
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Pro Plan True Nature Turkey & Chicken Entree is 1 carb: https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php

I have FF Gravy Lovers Poultry & Beef collection, and accidentally also purchased FF Gravy Lovers Chicken & Beef. I noted which specific ones are 15 and 20 carbs, but cannot locate what is considered MC and HC. ??
Help!

Oh! The Pure Bites are dehydrated chicken breast, so 0 carb.
 
LC is under 8%. MCis 19-15% and over that is HC. Depending on how carb sensitive your cat is you might need the higher or lower range of each. So if very carb sensitive 8-9% might be mc.
 
tiffmaxee said:
LC is under 8%. MCis 19-15% and over that is HC. Depending on how carb sensitive your cat is you might need the higher or lower range of each. So if very carb sensitive 8-9% might be mc.
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Thank you. I'll copy/paste these specifics into a OneNote. This info is hard to find--even in the FB group-OR-I'm blind as a bat!

Good! Confident now I have MC & HC on hand. :woot:
 
@Margaret (and Pearl)

I posted in a new tab details of SLGS, but suddenly not sure. Help, please! :nailbiting:

Am I here?
"a.) give nothing
b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose)
c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value"

If PMPS is -
"Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise."

But with today's 89 at +2, would a reduced dose or none at all? What do the pros recommend?
 
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A reduction was earned with SLGS. Down to .75 tonight. If under 150 stall, don’t feed, post for advice, and retest in 20-30 minutes. Leo is looking so good! I see the +7 is on the way up so he might be bouncing. You have already shot low numbers. Are you sure you don’t want to follow TR?
 
@Margaret (and Pearl)
tiffmaxee said:
A reduction was earned with SLGS. Down to .75 tonight. If under 150 stall, don’t feed, post for advice, and retest in 20-30 minutes. Leo is looking so good! I see the +7 is on the way up so he might be bouncing. You have already shot low numbers. Are you sure you don’t want to follow TR?
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Just now saw this reply. Going to TR is definitely something to consider. After seeing today's AMPS, he must be bouncing. 410!

I am so worn out that I asked our daughter to pick up any left over food in bowls this morning at 7:30 before she left for work, but she forgot to do so, so not sure if AM BG was a 2-hr fast or not. My fault.
 
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It is exhausting but they have the best chance at remission early in diagnosis so if it works you won’t be sleep deprived for long. I’m not trying to push you. Do what is best for you. The back to back reductions rarely work well unless quickly going down the dosing ladder and becoming diet controlled. That’s my main issue with SLGS.
The food might have upped the bg some but I think Leo is bouncing from being in green. It can take 4-6 cycles to clear or clear quickly.
 
tiffmaxee said:
It is exhausting but they have the best chance at remission early in diagnosis so if it works you won’t be sleep deprived for long. I’m not trying to push you. Do what is best for you. The back to back reductions rarely work well unless quickly going down the dosing ladder and becoming diet controlled. That’s my main issue with SLGS.
The food might have upped the bg some but I think Leo is bouncing from being in green. It can take 4-6 cycles to clear or clear quickly.
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Let me read (again) about TR. Is it too late to benefit from a sooner than later improvement by going TR (from SLGS)?

ETA: maybe timing is still good! What if he went undiagnosed as diabetic months or even years before actually getting tested/diagnosed? I searched for info on feline diabetes many times in the past because I suspected it. He always loved drinking water from the sink. Why I didn't have him tested before Dec 2021, I'll never know. Well, I do... mistrust of most things medical--even vets.

"Significantly higher remission rates were observed if good glycaemic control was achieved soon after diagnosis: 84% for cats started on the protocol within 6 months of diagnosis went into remission, and only 35% for cats that began more than 6 months after diagnosis."
 
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I think Leo has a good shot at becoming tightly regulated which protects his kidneys. Reducing so quickly doesn’t allow enough time to get used to normal BG. Prior to diagnosis did he ever have labs run? I can’t guarantee he will become diet controlled but it’s worth a try to see. That’s just my personal opinion. Most people don’t know how long their cats were diabetic. I did because Max had chronic pancreatitis so he had lots of labs. He never went into remission but was tightly controlled and I lost him to CHF with CKD advancing quickly and not diabetes. He was 19+ years old.
 
tiffmaxee said:
I think Leo has a good shot at becoming tightly regulated which protects his kidneys. Reducing so quickly doesn’t allow enough time to get used to normal BG. Prior to diagnosis did he ever have labs run? I can’t guarantee he will become diet controlled but it’s worth a try to see. That’s just my personal opinion. Most people don’t know how long their cats were diabetic. I did because Max had chronic pancreatitis so he had lots of labs. He never went into remission but was tightly controlled and I lost him to CHF with CKD advancing quickly and not diabetes. He was 19+ years old.
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So sorry about Max, but wow, 19+!!!
:) ♡
Leo never had any labs, so no history. He was about four months old when we got him from Austin Siamese Rescue. He's now 11.5.

TR starts off the dose in regards to weight. I know Leo has lost a lot of weight, but not sure what is considered ideal. He's 9.6# now. When diagnosed diabetic, he was 8.9#, 12/27/21. I recall he was 14# at some point over the years. I show in my digital notes, though he was 12 #, July 1, 2020. Not sure what is ideal. Thoughts on that, especially as it relates to Leo's TR dose?

"How to determine an initial starting dose for glargine or detemir when following the Tight Regulation Protocol:
  • the formula is 0.25 unit per kg of the cat's ideal weight
  • if kitty is underweight, the formula frequently used is 0.25 unit per kg of kitty's actual weight
  • if the cat was previously on another insulin, the starting dose should be determined by taking prior data into consideration"
Guess the starting dose is dependent on where Leo is now.
 
You will start with your current dose. That formula is for cats beginning lantus. The difference is reductions are taken if under 50 instead of 90 and if a reduction fails you don’t need to wait 7 days to increase. Increases happen every 3-5 days or longer rather than every 7 days.
 
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