2/6 Shadoe amps 416 pmps 398

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Yesterday’s Condo

Yesterday's recap:
409 - amps
356 - +1
308 - +2
344 - +11
394 - pmps
328 - +2
313 - +3
356 - +5
416 - today's amps - cycle 6

I am honestly starting to doubt that this insulin is doing much at all; I considered stopping today's condo with a note to say see yesterday- nothing different today.
Either that, or Shadoe is strong enough to have decided she just loves pink, has tried the others and does not like them, so she is not budging anymore. :cry:

Shadoe is very very happy lately. Yesterday, she ate three 3oz cans, and most of a 5.5oz can of food; naturally the LB action was fine. She is very demanding now for attention; she comes over to me, meows at me till I get up and go over to the sofa that Shadoe has overtaken (for test/shots/fluids/treats) and rub her belly and brush her - she races over there as soon as I get up and beats me there.

Others are worried about a fat or skinny 0.75; I am sitting here worried about if we are going up to 6.75u or 7u tonight. :sad:

I do wonder if I have caused part of the stubbornness by delaying shot increases; for all I know, Shadoe has gotten too comfy in the pink zone, or she has stubborn organs that just refuse to cooperate.

QUESTION #1: Since this AM is cycle 6 and we are to be more aggressive now, what do I increase tonight? To 6.75u or 7u? I am home all weekend so can watch and test alot.

QUESTION#2: Do many people ever start with Caninsulin/Vetsulin, switch to Lantus, then switch to Levemir? If yes, under what circumstances, when and with what results?
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 increase dose tonite question

Hi Gayle & Shadow! How frustrating, those stubborn organs! That's not a bad idea to think that those organ's favorite color is pink. What could any other reason be? You've been at it working hard since October, wow!

I wish I knew how to answer your questions. But! I am happy that Ms. Shadoe is happy, racing you to her spot and bossin' it up! I hope that she goes with the option that is truly the best, whether more Lantus or a new kind :smile: Sounds like she'll be happy either way!
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 increase dose tonite question

wow you're not kidding, ugh, I can hear your frustration :YMHUG:

hoping you get the experienced eyes in here today about the dose Q

But on the bright side, Shadoe is behaving like a good happy kitty.
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 increase dose tonite question

Good happy kitty, my eye!

:evil:

Come over here! Give me pats! Don't you go sneaking away! More pats! While you're up, more snacks! Now some nice brushing! A little over to the left, ah that's better. OK now under the chin, but don't go messing my whiskers!
OK all that brushing has made me hungry, so get me some food! No, don't put it there! Bring it over to me here! Bad bean, pay attention please!

:twisted:

She is so totally playing the 'woe is me' card :YMSIGH:
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 increase dose tonite question

:lol: :lol: :lol:

yup she has u wrapped around her paw.

it's not like u can ignore her cat_pet_icon
:lol:
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 increase dose tonite question

Raja and Shadoe were on the phone late last night...I happened to overhear Raja saying "You just can't find good help nowadays"
with such disgust in her voice. They were talking about us, Gayle...I just can't do things as perfectly as Raja demands and she keeps trying to get me polished completely as a perfect servant. I always fall short of the mark though. :roll: She taps her fingernails and rolls her eyes....does Shadoe do that when you are trying to complete the task properly?
My Shadow is far less demanding...I think the females rule the roost and they really expect 5 star service!! :lol:

I think the yellow you see today shows that something is happening on this present dose...no? Maybe today will bring more yellows...this is a good sign, right? I understand that it would have been so much more convenient if she would go to all blues last week, but that didn't happen.... :lol: Ronnie and I used to just sit and stare at our kitties although everyone else said that didn't work too well.
but at least it gave us something to do. :lol: Sigh...
Oh Shadoe...please get some more pretty sunny yellows to day and relax in that good feeling....your Mama is getting impatient with your tardiness...efficient brushing session are not what this is all about, k? :mrgreen:
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 increase dose tonite question

i think you were going to PM a higher doser like carolyn and spot and ask?
personally i'd say go ahead and go up by 0.5u if you are going to be around to test.
cautioning you tho that SOMETIMES a cat starts acting really happy and all because the numbers are about to come down. can't always tell by that. sometimes they're just extra hungry because of the high numbers.

well, if you don't see a break at all today i think your decision is pretty clear to go ahead and try the 0.5u increase. absolutely no reason to have your cat sitting in very flat high numbers when you're able to adjust the dose anyway (after 6th cycle of a dose).
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 increase dose tonite question

Good Morning Gayle
Well I'm glad you gave us a comdo today and told us how happy and playfull Shadoe
is. That too is important. You know as sart as they are they cannt read the protocol and know
excatly when a cycle is about to change.
Maybe today will be the break?
I told my family yesterday that I was gong to hop on a train with Max this weekend to Toronto and have him play with Shadoe so they can study the protocol an go for a vet visit.
Try and see what kind of testing you can get down today and we will see what happens tonight.
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 +3 245 - up dose tonite question?

Shadoe must be listening; we got another yellow for +3, but I don't think it's good enough to stay put. It may make a difference in the increase size, but not enough to stick with this 6.5u dose.

I was thinking that if Shadoe has a decent yellow am, maybe we could put off the increase till tomorrow, but then I thought that's how I got into the delay process and allowed Shadoe to get used to a dose.

Chris,
I had thought that when we are in higher dose zone, the increases of 0.25u would like not make a difference, so increases of 0.5u were better. I am OK to wait my turn for an answer, and prefer not to pester others, jump the line so to speak. I have altered my subj line and added the ?
Besides, Shadoe's in no rush; she is sound asleep with a full belly, and in the yellow zone.

Randi,
I am willing to give Shadoe till her pmps to prove that she is willing to play along and tread down in the prettier colors for hours, not just dip her paw in, then scamper back to pink. I will get a +6 and see if we are still in yellow or already back in pink.

Pat,
Shadoe is worse than the nail tapper! She comes up and looks at you, then does the weak warbly meow as if she is barely having the strength to make a sound! She pulls out all stops!
And the worst is the times that she gets you up, but then walks away as if to say, just checking to see if you were paying attention :twisted:
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 +3 245 - up dose tonite question?

gayle, i'm not disagreeing with you. i think your next dose should be 0.5u higher.

edited to answer your earlier question somewhat. we've seen high dose cats here switched to levemir once they got past a certain dose (in my experience we started thinking about switching cats once they went over 8u BID, tho that may have changed). does shadoe act as if the dose stings at all? some cats feel that at higher doses. levemir is pH neutral, same as blood. another reason for switching used to be that levemir was cheaper for high dose kitties, particularly because it lasted longer in the container, tho with the price changes lately i don't know if that's still true. there was also a belief that lantus in extremely high doses could have a correlation with cancer, tho that has not been definitively proven. we haven't seen it in lower dose kitties but we switch when they become high dose.
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 +3 245 - up dose tonite question?

(((((Gayle)))))
Frustration ooooooooooooooozes from your post. I feel so bad for you. It is definitely harder being the bean than being the queen. Or king, in our case, but that doesn't rhyme.

I'm not sure what you meant by "we are to be more aggressive now," but if that is true, it sounds like you could be due for an increase and the increase would be larger. After all, 0.5 is less than 8% of 6.5.

I had the same thought about Levemir. It is, I suppose, possible that for whatever reason, Shadoe and Lantus do not make a good match. Rarely, people are allergic to allergy medicines, and while I am not suggesting Shadoe has an allergy, it may just be that she is that one-in-a-million for whom Lantus doesn't work well. Others will come along and have a better answer, I know. But in the meantime, do you have any chocolate in the house. If so, apply liberally, and I don't mean to Shadoe!
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 +3 245 - up dose tonite question?

Lydia,
Sorry, no chocolate in the house; my trainer at the gym is working hard for me to get rid of my old Ukrainian waist, but I may break down and make a carrot cake later. Hey! Carrots are good for you, yes?

About the 'more aggessive' comment, it had been mentioned that if Shadoe is found to be acro or IAA from tests not yet done, we would likely treat her FD more aggressively by sticking strictly to protocol of the 2-3 days, and no more of my way - oh maybe she will come around with 1 or 2 more cycles. It is time to face that she is digging in her back paws and staying high.

Chris,
|Me too; I say the bigger increase is the one to do. I don't want to go against the proper system of increases, but do think that once a kitty is getting more than 1u/kg in a day, you have some different issues. Following that logic and Shadoe around 5.2kg on average with her total right now at 13u total, she is way past that sort of cutoff line. I would like to go with the 0.5u increase up to 7u tonite because I will have the rest of the weekend to watch very closely. This high dose is making me nervous because it's more than a human I know is getting on Lantus :shock:
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 +3 245 - up dose tonite question?

Hi Gayle. I agree with Chris and think that Shadoe needs an increase of 0.5units. That decision seemed really easy considering all the pink numbers and naturally being a cat, Shadoe is throwing in a few yellows today. But unless those yellows are low, I still would recommend going up by 0.5u.
Recommendations to increase by 0.5u are ONE or both of these:
a) cat has BG above 300 at nadir increase by 0.5u every 3 days (6 cycles)
b) cat has BG between 200-300 at nadir, and on higher dose (above 3.0 units) increase by 0.5 units.

Questions:
1. Except for this morning, Shadoe fit both of those requirements. So I hope you feel comfortable in going to 7.0 units and test a lot this weekend.

2. Yes, some people have switched insulins. I'm going to say most people lately on Vetsulin have switched... so let's leave that out of the equation. Going from Lantus to Levemir is something that others have done to see if they get a better response, especially those with higher doses. I personally went from Vetsulin to Levemir and started with about 30% less of a dose than I would have with Lantus. That is one reason some of the higher dose kitties switch... Lev often helps with the high gulpers.

I hope Carolyn and Spot can see your question and help answer as to what kind of results she got by switching to Lev from Lantus. (I think she did that.) There are others... hmm. Maybe I'll put out an alert to see if they can help answer you.

But first, try the dose increase and see if there is a breakthrough, ok?
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 +3 245 - up dose tonite question?

Good morning,Gayle!
I just love to read your condo,make me more alive in the morning. Iknow,it's not fun for You!
You asked me in my condo about size of Jake and civie Maya!
She is 1/2 of Jake's size (9lb) and jakey is 18.8 uh,uh! You can Imagine how is Maya :lol: :lol: at him.
But he is sweet boy!
Hope That new increased dose You are planing is breaking that stubborn #s!
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 +3 245 - up dose tonite question?

Thanks CD!

I will for sure go with the 0.5u increase tonite. I wanted to go to the 7u earlier, tonite, and give Shadoe a good couple of cycles before work on Monday.

I am sure that others would be interested to know about changes and the reasons behind switching to/from Lantus/Levemir. It may be helpful in the decision making process for any others who are making the jump from Vetsulin.
I know for myself, I switched from Caninsulin to Lantus simply because it was Lantus that was mentioned to me. Had someone said try Lev, I may well have ended up in the other group.

thanks again so much for the 2points clarification.
1. Shadoe could not give me a nadir below 200 even if I promised her unlimited cans of SophCat Supreme Chicken Cacciatore for the rest of her life! She loves that stuff (13carbs) as a teeny treat, and does not stop to chew the chunks; they are inhaled.
2. Shadoe has passed that 3.0u mark twice and is heading around for a 3rd lap. :roll:
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 +3 245 - up dose tonite question?

So far, you're seeing some action on this cycle. It does make me wonder if Shadoe had some lower mid-cycle numbers then bounced by pre-shot time. If that's the case, it takes a couple of days for the rebound to clear. And then there's NDW...

Tilly Protocol said:
Most cats need to have their dose increased. Do it in 0.25 IU or 0.5 IU steps (0.5 IU if the cat is getting a higher dose and/or relatively high BGs). Hold each dose for 5-7 days. However, if the cat is producing continuously high BGs (nadir always >=300 mg/dl), only hold the dose for 2-3 days before increasing it by 0.5 IU. Alternatively, if the cat is continuously producing moderately elevated BGs (nadir always >=200 mg/dl), increase the dose every 2-3 days by 0.25 IU ( if the cat is getting a low dose) or 0.5 IU (if the cat is getting a higher dose).
Click to expand...

As for the dose increase, it looks like Shadoe does have at least some nadirs in the 200s but is on a higher dose. Based on the protocol, you would increase by 0.5u and you should be increasing every 2 - 3 days. At the minimum, you should be increasing by 0.25u but increasing more often. I do think that sometimes our schedules need to be taken into consideration and I've delayed an increase because I couldn't run home from work to check on Gabby during the day.

You might want to PM Jill. When Alex returned from the Falls, she started using Lev rather than going back to Lantus.
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 +3 245 - up dose tonite question?

(((Gayle))) I'm so sorry you are feeling frustrated. I wish I could do something to help, other than just send :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

I have read that some people on higher doses split the dose into two needles and get better results. I'm not sure at which dose this would start to be effective. I hope that things get better soon, and that you get some good input on your questions.
 
Re: 2/6 Shadoe amps 416 +3 245 - up dose tonite question?

Since I am always saying that one must stay positive, I will say the 7u dose will be easy because there is a nice big line on the syringes! :-D
No aiming at somewhere between this microscopic line and the next one.

Sienne,
Shadoe is a trickster by leading me to think we are making progress then she backs up and parks in pinks. It is too soon yet, I think, to be switching insulin, I would like to see how we do on the 7u. I do think it won't do any harm in looking into the differences.

Since I am going ahead with the increase tonite, I am leaving the testing frequency for now. Maybe I will get a +9, Ronnie's favorite one :smile:
 
Today was pretty good; started in reds, dropped to lots of yellow, and finished up on her favorite color: pink :roll:

Since the cart was as good as empty, we started a new cart and also a new dose of 7u.

Oddly, Shadoe did not eat as much as she does during the week, only one 3oz and one 5.5oz so far today, plus she has not given any nausea signs at all today, so we passed on the pepcid.

We will see how things go with this increase.
 
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