2/6 Max PMPS 344~+3 123~+4 76~4.5 69~+5 101

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Randi & Max (GA)

Randi & Max (GA)

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Yesterday's Condo

Happy Saturday LL
recap last night:
+3 276
+6 183
Ketone negative
I purposely set my alarm to get a +6 last night to hopefully see some blue, which I did.
Totally not happy with starting the day red. We too are hoping for some break on this dose being 72 hours after seeing a spot of green.

Max is very content today, sitting at the kitchen table with DH.
I even carried Max up to bed last night and he finally stayed for a while, snuggled and curled up in my arm. How I missed that. He did not stay long but it felt great.
Everyone have a great day. We are hoping for one too.

Curious, Max's meals are spread out thorughout the day, every 3 hours. he needs 4 small cans of FF daily. Is it better to feed in the 6 hours after shots and leave less food in the second half? Trying to understand the process Tina/Sami and Miriam/Putty and I know Ronnie/Luna did it or at Max's high numbers its not wort trying that yet. Do you here the desperation?
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403

I'm impressed that you got up to get the blue. (Of course, I'd probably just stay awake and be cranky in the AM.)

I feed a bit differently than "mini-meals." Approximately every few hours, usually after I test, I give Gabby (and Gizmo because I don't want a kitten chewing on my ankle) about 1/8 of a can of FF. I'm feeding primarily during the first half of the cycle.Gabby probably gets a half a can of FF per cycle.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403

Randi,
I am likely the last one to be commenting on feeding times because Shadoe's are times when she is conscious which is all the time it seems.

Way back when, I was told that until you have a regulated kitty, kitty may eat more if the nutrients are not getting put to use. So it's in one end and out the other, with little stopping along the way to drop off the good parts of the food. :lol:

I have yet to figure out how to calculate Shadoe's ideal weight like everyone else seems to be able to do, but I'll ask if you have done that already. None of my vets are in the least bit concerned about Shadoe being between 11 and 12lbs, and she is solid as a rock with no fat that we can see, but she has an old Ukrainian baba's waist on her!

So if Max is a nice healthy strapping large fella, then maybe he is not eating too much. You can always go by the calories of the foods along with the carbs, so he can watch his waistline.
If you look at the food list for ff, the grilled chicken feast is a whopping 18carbs but only 74.2 calories. then look at gourmet chicken feast and it's only 4carbs but 93.6 calories.
Maybe take a close look at what Max is eating now, and dissect it by making a food schedule with columns for carbs and calories, then totals for each day. It sounds like fun, yes? After that, you can also toss in some meal schedules as suggested by some of the others. Get right down to portion size and the times for each.

It's the slowness that gets to you, and sometimes you have to pause then take a look back. You will see that Max has been working hard to stop his climb upward and even earned himself a decrease, yes?
His first and he's doing not too badly at hanging onto it, so it's tough and slow but it's going in the right direction.

I say let the boy eat!
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403

Hi Randi,
Just stopping in. Is Max over fluffy? My civie, Miss Emily, was pre-diabetic, and carrying a lot of voluptuousness on her small frame. She has an insatiable appetite. I was able to get her BG numbers back in the normal range by getting the weight off her. It was a long, slow process, and we still are battling. She is at 5.3 kg now, still trying for a goal weight of 5 kg. It isn't easy, for sure. I would start by just taking away maybe a teaspoon or 1/2 teaspoon per meal, and aim for very slow weight loss. Gayle has a good suggestion to look for some lower calorie foods.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403

Hey Randi & Max--Moonie battle the bulge too--I just cut them down an 1/8th of a can as she was plumping up a bit--She eats much more than a civvie.
I watch Moonie & how she free feeds & she eats about every hour -hour & a half, as I have been watching the way the timed feeding experiments have been going...
So, yes, it can make a difference to take away just a bit if food each other..Have a good Caturday.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403

Todays recap
+4 311
+6 364

How lousy is that today, plus he just seems off. I can't place my finger on it other than you just know your cat.
My only hope is that today is looking a lot like Jan 30 when he had really flat high pink numbers and then dropped to green that night.
Going up at +6 seems strange but I guess with the variance at these high numbers, 311 and 364 are not that much different.

Thanks for all the food advice. The only good thing I got form vet # 2 was the amount of calories he needs to be at 16 pounds (he is 18.4) 380 calaries so almost 4 cans of FF.
But as Gayle said, he is unregulated so he really needs to have food when he wants it.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403

Hi Randi :)

EVO is pretty high in fat, I would discontinue that for him. High fat can (a) make cats fat and (b) annoy the pancreas. If he's got chronic pancreatitis (I know the test was neg but if I recall the fPLI is only proper to read during an actual attack) that will exacerbate it. Another shocker is Wellness' food is also high in fat. Most of your store brands like FF and Friskies are fine in the fat dept, and I've never been sure why EVO and Wellness are so much higher.

Secondly.. is that pic of him from now or before dx? Is he Maine Coon? He looks sorta portly, but the pic is tiny and I'm old, so I am asking because unless he's a very tall and large framed cat, 16lbs is pretty heavy. If you're questioning it, check out Dr. Lisa's site, she has a pic of what a cat should actually look like vs what we think they should look like. I'm not one to talk because I have one (pretty certain he's Maine Coon) that weighs over 20lbs.. but he's an acro and he eats the same amount you are feeding yours, which is twice what my other two are eating. http://www.catinfo.org/feline_obesity.htm#Is_Your_Cat_Overweight The recommended rule of thumb for a normal healthy cat is 6-8oz wet food a day for maintenance. Your cat is not healthy so it's reasonable that he might eat a couple ounces more, but 12oz is considered a lot.

Don't stress about today's numbers, I'd call that a bounce. On the other hand, DO keep an eye on him. Your gut instinct is all you've got, and I guarantee you that if you think something's going on, something is going on. One of my thoughts would be, how are his poops? Do they look on the large or dryish side? With the amount of food he is getting, he might be a little slow on motility which can cause discomfort. Switching from dry food removes the bulk that used to literally shove the poop out of them, but it also stretches colons. Once that bulk is not there, things can slow down due to loss of muscle tone. I use Miralax to keep Leo moving nicely with his massive food intake and add water to his food to assist the Miralax.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364

Wow Carolyn, that is great info.
I thought the EVO would be good but guess not. I will stick with the FF, he likes it anyways.
Max is not Main Coon, just a regular short hair and yes he is big. He is small paws and head so he is not a "big looking cat" if you coul understand what I mean. The picture is a couple of months old. I will try and get a new one but yes they are small so it is hard to see.
Based on your numbers, sounds like vet gave me too many calories for him and it is possible he might be eating more since there are 3 cats in the house.

To be honest about his poops, I really don't know, terrible Mom. Other than keeping him seperate I do not know who is doing what unless I actually see him. I see him pee but not much poop. Oh yes, I saw about 2 ights ago. Good stinky one. Maybe he is a bit constipated and that's why he is a bit off. We saw that back in Oct so I was busy wih everything to get him to go. Laxatone, which I won't give now and pumpkin which he did not eat. This was all done prior to DX but he was diabetic then, vet missed it in hus urine!!
I will go and check out Miralax. Is that regular in pharmacy section? Walmart? Maybe that could be bothering him. I always add water to his food and hopefully I can see him in the LB.
I don't want to stress him by locking him in a seperate room.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364

Randi & Max said:
Wow Carolyn, that is great info.
I thought the EVO would be good but guess not. I will stick with the FF, he likes it anyways.
Max is not Main Coon, just a regular short hair and yes he is big. He is small paws and head so he is not a "big looking cat" if you coul understand what I mean. The picture is a couple of months old. I will try and get a new one but yes they are small so it is hard to see.
Based on your numbers, sounds like vet gave me too many calories for him and it is possible he might be eating more since there are 3 cats in the house.

To be honest about his poops, I really don't know, terrible Mom. Other than keeping him seperate I do not know who is doing what unless I actually see him. I see him pee but not much poop. Oh yes, I saw about 2 ights ago. Good stinky one. Maybe he is a bit constipated and that's why he is a bit off. We saw that back in Oct so I was busy wih everything to get him to go. Laxatone, which I won't give now and pumpkin which he did not eat. This was all done prior to DX but he was diabetic then, vet missed it in hus urine!!
I will go and check out Miralax. Is that regular in pharmacy section? Walmart? Maybe that could be bothering him. I always add water to his food and hopefully I can see him in the LB.
I don't want to stress him by locking him in a seperate room.
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Yup you can get Miralax pretty much any where there's a pharmacy, in grocery stores, walmarts, etc. Are you in Canada? I can't remember but I think you are and I'm not sure it's called Miralax there. The ingredient is Polyethylene Glycol if you can't find that brand name. I started Leo on 1/8 tsp BID and worked him up but you should be ok with the lower dose for now. Don't worry about locking him in a room and don't worry about the other cats getting Miralax if they get his food. It won't hurt anyone. The trick to knowing you have to reduce your Miralax dose is if you see loose stool, which I doubt you will see at 1/8tsp BID. This is not something you can just give periodically by the way. This should be twice a day, every day. It works only if it is in the system and does not work as a regular laxative so if you notice someone is clogged up, Miralax is not your man LOL
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364

I always wonder about stuff that some give to their kitties on a regular basis, like pepcid, but what about vitamins?
People take them when they are reducing their intake, just to be sure they get the minimums, so if you are reducing the food for kitties, are there similar supplements to give them?
With the Miralax, is it an item that is given only at certain times or to certain kitties, or is it something that is safe to give on a regular basis.

We spend so much focus on the carbs, that all the rest becomes minor.
Then we are told oh wait, watch the calories too. How much is too much?
And then, someone says hey watch that fat too. How much is too much?

The more I think we know, the more I realize how little we know.

What's Max telling you?
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364

I agree to some extent, though I do not count calories at all. I only count ounces and I don't even mess with that unless someone is getting fat. Fat content is more important to diabetic kitties just because so many cats have undiagnosed pancreatitis. http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/read.php?8,876722,876722 This is where the better safe than sorry principle comes in. It's best to avoid things that might cause problems to a pancreas, and overweight cats are prone to even more problems than pancreas issues, such as overworking of the heart. Other than all that thinking, I just try to think about things in a common sense manner. Like Dr. Lisa says, if the cat is fat, feed less. If the cat is skinny, feed more.

Miralax is a nice thing to do as preventative measure in an older cat, particularly if you think there is a motility issue. Most of our cats have come off a lifetime of dry food which has caused loss of muscle tone. Since more of the wet food is digested than was of the dry, there is less in the bowels to keep things moving. It's also dryer, especially in our diabetic cats, where dehydration is a constant issue. Miralax moves right through the system unabsorbed, just carrying water with it, which is why it's so often recommended on here.

Pepcid should not be given to any cats on a regular basis, or as a supplemental thing. I hope no one is doing that. That's something that should be reserved only for pancreatic flareups.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364

Gayle and Shadoe said:
We spend so much focus on the carbs, that all the rest becomes minor.
Then we are told oh wait, watch the calories too. How much is too much?
And then, someone says hey watch that fat too. How much is too much?
Click to expand...

And then someone tells you to watch the phosphorus :sad:
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364

Sorry that you guys were busy with all of this info and I was out.
Linda and Bear Man said:
Miralax is not sold in Canada. A Canadian equivalent, called Lax a Day recently came out. It should be in the drugstore asle with laxatives and stomach remedies.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for that info Linda because I never would have known what to buy. I got the Lax A Day at Walmart. I guess I mix the 1/8tsp with water and out it on his food? Maybe this is what is bothering him. It's worth a shot unless it wll increase his BG.

I will also concentrate on his calories this weekend and spread them out. Maybe at the end of a day he could be getting 4-5 cans because I leave food out at night and with the 3 cats I'm not sure what he eats.
So far today he is very quiet.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364

Randi & Max said:
Sorry that you guys were busy with all of this info and I was out.
Linda and Bear Man said:
Miralax is not sold in Canada. A Canadian equivalent, called Lax a Day recently came out. It should be in the drugstore asle with laxatives and stomach remedies.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for that info Linda because I never would have known what to buy. I got the Lax A Day at Walmart. I guess I mix the 1/8tsp with water and out it on his food? Maybe this is what is bothering him. It's worth a shot unless it wll increase his BG.
Click to expand...

I can't help you with the dose, unfortunately, because I have never used it.

Edited to add: it l.ooks like Miralax and Lax a Day are the same product (PEG3350), so Miralax users can guide you on the dosage.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364

Yep 1/8tsp BID and mix it right in. It's odorless, tasteless and not absorbed so it won't affect bg's at all. :)
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364

Carolyn and Spot said:
Yep 1/8tsp BID and mix it right in. It's odorless, tasteless and not absorbed so it won't affect bg's at all. :)
Yep 1/8tsp BID and mix it right in. It's odorless, tasteless and not absorbed so it won't affect bg's at all. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks Carolyn for taking the time for my Max.
As you suggested, I am ignoring today's numbers, for now. At +10 we are at 388.
Not even a hint of yellow.
Hopefully he will perk up a bit tonight and I will give him the Lax A day with his supper after his shot. Maybe I will try and pm a picture of Max so you caould get an idea as to his size. Thes profile pics are small.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364

Carolyn and Spot said:
If it makes you feel better, I have TWO cats in my house flatlined in the 300s right now :)
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Okay it does. I love my boy dearly, as we all do here, and I am trying so hard. I am getting very worried that he will have damage to his kidneys if I cannot get his numbers down.
I lost my first precious cat, Sasha to renal failure 6 years ago and I have not forgiven myself that she got to that point without me knowing it. I did everything I could to save her, iv fluids...she was only 11 but to me, I found out too late when her kidneys were rocks.
I don't want to miss some sign with Max.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364

I hear ya, I lost one to cancer and another to heart failure, and I still feel bad about both, I just didn't know enough. Now that we know we can find anything out on the internet, it heightens our awareness.. and our fears IMO. The best thing we can do is honor our GAs by being the best people we can be for all the kitties that come after them. :)
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364

Sounds like a lot of brainstorming in here today - glad u got all that info Randi!

From what I saw in uf FB pics, Max is a pretty big boy

hope things get better after the laxaday.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364~PMPS 344~+3 123

Looks like we got that break we were looking for.
It really was the strangest thing. When I did his PMPS and saw that 344, it was hmm, maybe.
Then the rest of the night he seemed a bit more hungry, coming for food, staying with us in the kitchen and just not on is chair.

Well 3 hours to go to nadir, now I just have to get him nicely into the greens and make sure he does not drop below 50.

Any suggestions. Do I need to worry now about feed LC 2 tsp and test in 30 or wait. He just had 2tp because he was hungry. I want this to be a controlled (if that's possible) slow drop an green surf.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364~PMPS 344~+3 123

ur ok with LC snack right now...

nice +3

if u wanna catch him turning :mrgreen: (antijinx) grab a +4

Come on Max!! We're rootin' for ya!!
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364~PMPS 344~+3 123

Ronnie & Luna said:
ur ok with LC snack right now...

nice +3

if u wanna catch him turning :mrgreen: (antijinx) grab a +4

Come on Max!! We're rootin' for ya!!
Click to expand...

You sure not a +30, lol? I'll hold till +4 (not your favourite number though)
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364~PMPS 344~+3 123

lol, ha-ha, funny girl

should be interesting thou :mrgreen: vibes :mrgreen: vibes
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364~PMPS 344~+3 123

Those +4's are squared :lol:

Good luck later Randi.
 
Re: 2/6 Max AMPS 403~+6 364~PMPS 344~+3 123

Libby and Lucy said:
let's see some green!
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Green is here. That was fast, I must keep him over 50. I do not want to do a doscrease yet. Is ths wrong thinking.
Fed 2tsp LC will test in 30. Is this a good plan? What number should I give MC if I can catch it.
It's already out on the counter waiting to be opened.
 
Re: BUMP

Ronnie & Luna said:
good plan I think - excellent catch!

not sure about MC and when to give - I will bump u
Click to expand...
I have my cheat sheet, I just don;t want to go below 50. We will see how fast he is dropping in about 10 minutes, which is half hour from the 2 tsp.
 
Re: 2/6 Max PMPS 344~+3 123~+4 76

1tsp MC now stop being scared of below 50 ;p He's gonna be 900 by tomorrow anyway LOL

EDIT! Joke was about rebound. He's a bouncy boy!
 
Re: 2/6 Max PMPS 344~+3 123~+4 76

Carolyn and Spot said:
1tsp MC now stop being scared of below 50 ;p He's gonna be 900 by tomorrow anyway LOL

EDIT! Joke was about rebound. He's a bouncy boy!
Click to expand...


I know Carolyn, I know. Okay so just 1 tsp MC and test when 15 or 30? Going to test right now
 
Re: 2/6 Max PMPS 344~+3 123~+4 76

omg Carolyn! Dont scare the poor girl! :lol:

there's no such thing as 900! lol

Go Max!! Prove her wrong!! :lol:
 
Re: 2/6 Max PMPS 344~+3 123~+4 76~4.5 69

We are surfing the greens.
Question, How in the world do you seperate the gravy from these chunks to get anything.
There is hardly any gravy in these FF cans. I have a few friskies so maybe I should check that.
I put a can of FF in a thin strainer to see if I can get the "juice" out.

I gave Max a tsp of LC with what I could make of gravy into a tsp. Is that okay. Really hard.
Testing in 30.

Deja vu to last saturday night!!!
 
Re: 2/6 Max PMPS 344~+3 123~+4 76~4.5 69

nice surf, Max. :mrgreen:

Maybe open a different can of FF? Some have more gravy than others. I used to be able to get it out pretty easily by just pushing the spoon down into the food to smush the food part down and leave the gravy on top.
 
Re: 2/6 Max PMPS 344~+3 123~+4 76~4.5 69

Looks like too much of the gravy affected him. gave very little. Guess he is not used to that. Now at 101.
Should I feed or leave to see if he will come back down to green although 101 is almost green.
 
Ronnie & Luna said:
u wanna stay up for one more just in case?

101 - geesh! that's just so close to green :mrgreen:
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Yup, Not going anywhere, I really want this surf so I'm good to stay. I was surprised to see such a jump. It was such a tiny amount of gravy. I did not give him food now.
 
Re: 2/6 Max PMPS 344~+3 123~+4 76~4.5 69

Randi & Max said:
Looks like too much of the gravy affected him. gave very little. Guess he is not used to that. Now at 101.
Should I feed or leave to see if he will come back down to green although 101 is almost green.
Click to expand...
you don't have to feed this. although i would get another test in about 45 minutes to make sure he's on his way up.

ps - make a mental note of how much hc gravy increased the numbers. some kitties are more carb sensitive than others. it's good to know if your kitty is one of them. example: alex is so carb sensitive that feeding her lc is all i have to do to bring her numbers up. that's why i tried not to feed her after +6 (when the insulin was beginning to poop out). it ended up to be a good thing because the first time she dropped into the 30s i tried to feed her hc, but she was one of those rare cats who wouldn't eat it. :-D
 
That's great to know Jill. It was very hard to get the gracy out of the can so maybe not even a tsp really.
He might be one of those cats too because he never liked the shredded, gravy foods.
They have always been on pate, mostly friskies but with the dx switched to FF, thought it was better and they seem to eat it more than the Friskies.
I'll check him again at his +6, 1:00 and see where he is.
This was a terrfic break, as you and Carolyn and Libby thought of last night.
I also read in a condo somewhere once about the blood being different at different numbers.
I just new when I tested him at 123 it was going to be low because the blood just oozed from one small prick and was so liquidy, not thick.
 
lol! actually, he didn't break as soon as i thought he would, but the numbers did break... and that's what's important.
hmmm, i never really noticed the blood being different at different numbers. maybe it's an ECID thing?
 
one other thing to keep in mind is that it probably is not just the food in play here.. that was a 275 pt drop in 4.5 hours. That is a LOT for a cat that's used to being much higher and flatter. The liver might have thrown out the anchor on the way down and the combination of that and the food just hauled him up.
 
Carolyn and Spot said:
one other thing to keep in mind is that it probably is not just the food in play here.. that was a 275 pt drop in 4.5 hours. That is a LOT for a cat that's used to being much higher and flatter. The liver might have thrown out the anchor on the way down and the combination of that and the food just hauled him up.
Click to expand...
Jill & Alex said:
good point, carolyn!
Click to expand...

Or Max had pity on me and let me go to bed earlier than 4:00 am like last saturday.
I'm glad we saw a break at the 5.5 which we did not see on the way up. very interesting these cats are. I think I'll take Max up to bed and mabe he will stay.

Good thing I didn't need the MC gravy anymore that I worked so hard getting it out with a strainer.
His skinny sister jumped the counter when I wasn't looking and its gone. Good way to end the night.
Thanks for your help, again!
 
Ronnie & Luna said:
where ya going?
:lol:

good job tonight Randi!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Thanks Ronnie. Thought bed might be a good idea since I have lots to do tomorrow.
I feel like snuggling with Max if he will allow me the pleasure. I just love that boy.
Still has a baby face in those 18 pounds!
 
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