2/26 Kitty AMPS 89 -Dosecrease tomorrow, or not?

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Kathy and Kitty

Kathy and Kitty

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Yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7412

Trending slightly higher. This is his 7th day on this dose, all green except for two 103's, but overall he's been a little higher.

Should we attempt a shave tomorrow, maybe .75, or .75 skinny? Or hold this dose a while longer?
 
Kathy and Kitty said:
Yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7412

Trending slightly higher. This is his 7th day on this dose, all green except for two 103's, but overall he's been a little higher.

Should we attempt a shave tomorrow, maybe .75, or .75 skinny? Or hold this dose a while longer?
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you've reached a difficult point which most of us face with our kitties. we *know* we can push normal numbers even lower with more insulin. :mrgreen:
just a suggestion... i think i would try feeding kitty a small snack at +9 to see if it helps keep the pmps numbers green.
imo, attempting a dose reduction to 0.75u tomorrow is fine...
 
Thank you so much, Jill.

I always feed Kitty mini-snacks -- mostly on the schedule of +2 and +10. Occasionally, his +10 turns into +10.5. I know that intrudes into the 2-hour non-feed period, but if I don't feed him 1/4 can then, he becomes simply IMPOSSIBLE :-D at +11.5. These low blues, though, appeared with +10 snack.

I'll make an effort to make that a +9 snack instead.

Now that he is below 1 unit, I have theoretical questions! I don't want to race to the finish line -- we have so much at stake -- but I'm not sure what that means. The protocol talks about .25 unit reductions, but maybe that's racing? Or is it time to encourage Kitty's little pancreas to get ready for work?

Practically speaking, though, especially with these numbers, .75 sounds good. Thanks.
 
protocol does say to reduce in increments of 0.25 units. it's really a judgement call. kitty may do perfectly fine with a 0.25u reduction. i/we don't know. admittedly, i'm ultra conservative when it comes to reductions with kitties who have been diabetic for awhile as well as kitties like mine who have come out of remission. so, take my comments with that in mind. :-D
 
Thank you for explaining it. I got confused when I read the protocol. I thought, being on insulin a long time is bad...so maybe creeping down leaves him on insulin LONGER, which is maybe a reason to use the larger decrease...

CLEARLY, I think too much!!! :lol:

If Kitty were in the low 70s, I might attempt a .25 reduction. But when he's on the upper end of green, then conservative is the way to go. .75 it is.

Not that I know how to measure that. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 2/26 Kitty AMPS 89, +4.5 74

Kathy and Kitty said:
If Kitty were in the low 70s, I might attempt a .25 reduction. But when he's on the upper end of green, then conservative is the way to go. .75 it is.
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Of course, the minute i say that, I get a 70s.

But I'm sticking with .75 for tomorrow. :-D
 
lol! no, you don't think too much. fwiw, i struggled with dose reductions this last time alex was on insulin. i know all too well how a failed reduction can turn out to be a set back... time-wise and in possibly needing an even higher dose to get back to where you started. i held my breath with every single reduction...
 
Kitty has been sooo consistent, I think I've had a false sense of confidence -- that he is ready to leave insulin behind. Especially when he missed two doses because of the dental, and still stayed green.

But all of these weeks of regulated green really don't mean anything about the future, do they? Please feel free to say it again, I think I need to hear it.

Creeping down is the way to go, from here on.
 
Kathy and Kitty said:
Kitty has been sooo consistent, I think I've had a false sense of confidence -- that he is ready to leave insulin behind. Especially when he missed two doses because of the dental, and still stayed green.

But all of these weeks of regulated green really don't mean anything about the future, do they? Please feel free to say it again, I think I need to hear it.

Creeping down is the way to go, from here on.
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i wasn't surprised kitty stayed green with missed doses because he's so tightly regulated (which is why i suggested skipping)... more so than most/any of the kitties currently in the group. his reserve tank carried him through the missed shots. when a cat is tightly regulated, we're giving them the maximum amount of insulin possible without letting them bottom out. you're controlling his numbers with insulin. all this time you're giving him in normal numbers is time his pancreas can heal.

i wish jojo had a ss for us to look at for her diabetic (Settle Down). SD is also very tightly regulated. unfortunately, SD has gone up and down in dose several times. it happens. i guess that's why i'm as conservative with reductions as i am. and even at that, there's no guarantees. stuff happens inside those little kitty bodies. all we do is the best we can...
 
here I am in the right condo!

Interesting discussion, and one I can totally relate to. I was terrified of dose reductions on Lucy's way down, because the first time she raced down I went too fast and she lost it. I was scared of that happening again because I hated it. The second time around I tried to take her down as slowly as I could. I didn't do shaves, I did 0.25 decreases, but I tried to feed every time I thought she was dropping to try to keep her from earning dose reductions. However, once she was in the all green all the time phase, I was able to relax a bit and become more comfortable with reductions.

I remember commenting at some point that it didn't seem like it was possible to mess her up. I could BCS, be late, or even skip a shot, and she didn't miss a beat. That's when I realized that Lucy was finally at a point where if she stayed on insulin for the rest of her life, it was ok because it was so easy. Of course she had other plans, and that's great too!
 
Re: 2/26 Kitty PMPS 78! But no shave tomorrow

Look at that: Took Jill's suggestion of feeding the snack at +9, instead of our usual +10, and voila, lower PMPS. Coincidence??? :mrgreen: It really makes me wonder how much of the variation in his numbers is food-related.

Libby, why did you do .25s instead of shaves? Just different practices at that time? I admit, I have had that feeling of "destiny" -- Kitty has been so steady. But that's dangerous thinking.

Even with this nice PMPS, DH thinks we should hold off on the shave. And maybe we should let him stabilize. He had anesthesia and two missed doses not that long ago. There's no rush, right? ;-)
 
Look at that: Took Jill's suggestion of feeding the snack at +9, instead of our usual +10, and voila, lower PMPS. Coincidence??? It really makes me wonder how much of the variation in his numbers is food-related.
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lol! i'll have to send him a jar of halo liv-a-littles for that one! :lol:
do it again, kitty!
 
Re: 2/26 Kitty PMPS 78! But no shave tomorrow

Kathy and Kitty said:
Libby, why did you do .25s instead of shaves? Just different practices at that time? I admit, I have had that feeling of "destiny" -- Kitty has been so steady. But that's dangerous thinking.
Click to expand...

0.25 reductions are standard unless your cat has shown that he can't hold them (and even that can change as the cat gets better). I didn't need to do shaves because the 0.25 worked, but I did try to hold the doses as long as I could until the last couple of doses. I didn't hold the 0.1 for 7 whole days, but I would advise others to hold for at least that long just to give extra healing time.
 
Kathy and Kitty said:
Libby, I have to ask (I just can't help myself!) - When you say "as long as possible," do you mean 7 days? :smile:
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Lucy earned most of her reductions (except the last few) by going too low rather than by the 7 day thing. She was very different from Kitty in that respect! So by "as long as possible" I mean that I tried to feed whenever she was trying to drop, to prevent her from dropping so I wouldn't have to reduce. I was trying to keep her from going down in dose too quickly. Lucy got a LOT of snackus her last couple of months on insulin.

Once she got down to under about 1 unit, she stopped going too low. Then I held the doses until Jill and Jojo made me reduce them. (and yes, they had to make me). I didn't hold 0.1 for a few more days, except that I was sure she was ready, I liked the 67 she threw me that night, and I seem to remember Jill threatening to send somebody to my house to confiscate my Lantus. :lol:
 
Kathy and Kitty said:
Libby, I have to ask (I just can't help myself!) - When you say "as long as possible," do you mean 7 days? :smile:
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libby will have to give you specifics, but from what i remember...
there were times i thought we were going to have to pry the syringe out of her hand. :lol:
 
Re: 2/26 Kitty PM +2 67!

I got that bed check in tonight, because he was 78. Maybe we CAN take that reduction tomorrow! Feeding excellent snack now. (With chicken dust.)

I see the difference, Libby, thanks. I can no longer avoid it. I am going to have to learn to "read" spreadsheets like everyone else, so I can examine Lucy's numbers like tea leaves!

Sure hope someone threatens to take away my Lantus someday! (Jill, paging Jill!) Yeah, like that will be necessary. :lol:
 
go for it. :razz:
kitty sure looks ready to me for the next reduction.
(and no can't use my cat as an example, he can't handle reductions, only shaves, but he is different from most in many respects).
good luck with new dose! :mrgreen:
 
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