2/17 Missy AMPS 230 +2 196 +5 173 PMPS 268 +2 239

DanaB

DanaB

Member Since 2020
yesterday post - there is a post about when I talked to the vet tech yesterday.

Gave 1/4 tsp of 9% at +1 and 1 tbsp 4% at +2

So I went to the vet to pick up the baytril for her bacterial infection today and my vet wanted to discuss Missys BG with me. He has reached out to an internal medicine specialist reguarding her fructosamine being high, but her BG normal.
Basically they came to the conculsion that she is being overdosed and its causing a Somogyi rebound effect. So THEY believe that Lantus is not the right insulin and she should be on caninsulin again because its not as strong. They believe her metobolism is too fast for Lantus. I tried to explain the differences between the 2 insulins and why lantus is better.
Previously Missy was on caninsulin for 6 years, not testing:eek:(because I didnt know) and her dose ranged from 6-1 units.... mostly between 4-6 units. She also ate mostly Nutro dry food. I dont know what her BG was like because I didnt test... and she usually is a bit lower when we are at the vet. According to the records she tested at the vet as low as 1.8 and as high as 27... please know I did not know or understand these numbers at this point. Only sometimes was her fructosamine high. In August 2020 (2 months before I switched to Lantus her BG was 6.1 and Fruc was 501, so clearly she was no better at that point. But she was free fed dry and getting 6 units of caninsulin. This is when I learned about the facebook groups and the Message Board.

My vet sort of admitted he doesnt know a lot about diabtetes but I think his confidence was being pushed by the information he received from the internal medicine specalist.

I explained that her numbers have probably been off because of the Bacterial infection ..... so he said if I truly think she is not regulated because of the bacteria then there is a chance that the kidney values are affected because she has Pyelonephritis (UTI that caused kidney infection). Again she really doesnt have the symptoms of this BUT she has the bacteria so either way she need to be treated. Because the infection might be in the kidneys we are going to do Baytril for 30 days.

SOOOOO.... the only thing is that im having trouble with is that after almost 1.5 years I have not been able to regulate her. Now that Rufus is doing so well so quickly I feel more confident that I am doing things correctly. Obviously I understand that cats don't all react the same to insuin. Missy seems much more sensitive to everything. Is there a chance she would do better on caninsulin??? Should I try levemir??? I would prefer to keep her on the same routine with Rufus and I think levemir is different nadir... but I will do whatever you think.
I assume I should continue to post and hope that thing level out once she is treated and hopefully feeling better.

I need to go back in about 3 weeks for bloodwork again to see if there is any change in her kidney vaules.
*current Bloodwork is on the LABS Feb 2022 tab

Sorry for the long post... Thank you soooooo much for your time.
 
Sorry you are going through this. I am glad that you are going to do the Baytril for a full 30 days. Did they culture the urine or just visualize the cocci? One of my kitties had marked cocci in her urine and was fine after a course of Baytril. It is definitely possible to see improved kidney values after clearing an infection.

I would not recommend going back to Caninsulin! It’s good for dogs (hence the name) but not good for cats. It hots too hard and fast and then wears off way too soon leaving them in higher numbers for too long. Levemir would give you a flatter curve most likely but if you have two diabetic cats it might be rough on you to use two different insulins.

I went through Vetsulin (caninsulin), ProZinc, Lantus, and Levemir. I thought Lev was the most gentle, with usually nice flatter curves, but Lantus is good as long as your kitty is not a big diver. The worst was Vetsulin. Lasted a few hours and then kitty was shooting to the moon.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Sorry you are going through this. I am glad that you are going to do the Baytril for a full 30 days. Did they culture the urine or just visualize the cocci? One of my kitties had marked cocci in her urine and was fine after a course of Baytril. It is definitely possible to see improved kidney values after clearing an infection.

I would not recommend going back to Caninsulin! It’s good for dogs (hence the name) but not good for cats. It hots too hard and fast and then wears off way too soon leaving them in higher numbers for too long. Levemir would give you a flatter curve most likely but if you have two diabetic cats it might be rough on you to use two different insulins.

I went through Vetsulin (caninsulin), ProZinc, Lantus, and Levemir. I thought Lev was the most gentle, with usually nice flatter curves, but Lantus is good as long as your kitty is not a big diver. The worst was Vetsulin. Lasted a few hours and then kitty was shooting to the moon.
Click to expand...

I love how you say as long as shes not a diver... she IS a diver:nailbiting: :(:nailbiting:. Ive been feeding her more carbs at +1 to try to slow the dive. Yeah... I definitely dont want to go back to Caninsulin... its just hard to prove to my vet this is a better insulin when im not getting good results. It feels like Missy is super sensitive to everything; ingredients, carbs, insulin.
I could switch them both to Levemir if I cant handle two different insulins.

Im not 100% sure if they cultured the urine or just visualized.... it was sent out to a lab and I got the results within 18 hours.
 
PM... she seems really tired. She paces all day and now she seems exhausted. She is usually around at shot time for food .. I had to bring her to the food at shot and +1. She still didnt eat as much as usual. I put all her favorite stuff out to get her to eat an ok amount. Hopefully the antibiotics start to kick in in a few days and she will start to feel better. I will probably just let her sleep unless she gets up to eat.:(
 
DanaB said:
I love how you say as long as shes not a diver... she IS a diver:nailbiting: :(:nailbiting:. Ive been feeding her more carbs at +1 to try to slow the dive. Yeah... I definitely dont want to go back to Caninsulin... its just hard to prove to my vet this is a better insulin when im not getting good results. It feels like Missy is super sensitive to everything; ingredients, carbs, insulin.
I could switch them both to Levemir if I cant handle two different insulins.

Im not 100% sure if they cultured the urine or just visualized.... it was sent out to a lab and I got the results within 18 hours.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was thinking about you switching them both to Levemir, but I thought…. I ‘ain’t gonna tell anyone their business and suggest that she switch two cats to Levemir!
 
Glad your vet was good enough to admit that he doesn't know a lot about feline diabetes and didn't try to push you towards caninsulin. Some cats are just harder to regulate. Some flatten out quickly but others just keep diving and bouncing. You could try Levemir but it didn't stop Bandit's bouncing. It might reduce the diving.

Ignore the fructosamine. Next time, save your $$ ask them to skip the test!

Her phosphorus is also on the higher side. Don't know if an infection can cause that to be elevated but as a precaution, you want to switch her to a low phosphorus food (if she isn't already on one).
http://felinecrf.org/phosphorus.htm

Btw, if you input the labs in the labs tab like I've done, you can track her numbers across months/tests.
 
DanaB said:
PM... she seems really tired. She paces all day and now she seems exhausted. She is usually around at shot time for food .. I had to bring her to the food at shot and +1. She still didnt eat as much as usual. I put all her favorite stuff out to get her to eat an ok amount. Hopefully the antibiotics start to kick in in a few days and she will start to feel better. I will probably just let her sleep unless she gets up to eat.:(
Click to expand...
Oh, poor Missy! I hope the antibiotics help! Sometimes they don’t want to eat as much on certain antibiotics. — tummy upset.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Glad your vet was good enough to admit that he doesn't know a lot about feline diabetes and didn't try to push you towards caninsulin. Some cats are just harder to regulate. Some flatten out quickly but others just keep diving and bouncing. You could try Levemir but it didn't stop Bandit's bouncing. It might reduce the diving.

Ignore the fructosamine. Next time, save your $$ ask them to skip the test!

Her phosphorus is also on the higher side. Don't know if an infection can cause that to be elevated but as a precaution, you want to switch her to a low phosphorus food (if she isn't already on one).
http://felinecrf.org/phosphorus.htm

Btw, if you input the labs in the labs tab like I've done, you can track her numbers across months/tests.
Click to expand...

Oh... I do like the way you have done the labs... I will definitely do that. Thank you!

I did actually tell them I didnt need the fuctosamine but I think because she is diabetic he feels its his responsibility to know whats going on.:banghead: He gives me a discount so I try not to complain.

I was thinking about the low phosphorus food.... her BG seems to react to seafood (fish oil is ok) so I feel like there is limited choice. I'm going to make myself a list of whats available in Canada then figure out which ones dont have seafood in them.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
I wanted to mention this too! :)
I give a probiotic (S. Boulardii) when giving antibiotics.
Click to expand...

I have some Adored beast Healthy gut and some renew life 50 billion probiotics.... I'll see what I can get away with sprinkling on her food. I might pick up some S boulardii, I have used it before.
 
She just ate a good amount of food with probiotics and slippery elm:)
She gets her baytril in the late am... so maybe i'll do probiotics in the early am and slippery elm in the evenings.
I can definitely get a few of the canned foods that are lower phosphorus >0.90 I already have some tiki cat after dark chicken thats 0.90 phosphorus, but shes not a fan of the texture.. so I have to blend it up for her:p
 
DanaB said:
She just ate a good amount of food with probiotics and slippery elm:)
Click to expand...
Yay!

DanaB said:
I can definitely get a few of the canned foods that are lower phosphorus >0.90 I already have some tiki cat after dark chicken thats 0.90 phosphorus, but shes not a fan of the texture.. so I have to blend it up for her:p
Click to expand...
You will need phosphorus less than 0.5% on a dry matter basis. Also look at Weruva.

If she won't eat low food food, you might have to look at adding a phos binder to the food she will eat.
@Suzanne & Darcy
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Yay!


You will need phosphorus less than 0.5% on a dry matter basis. Also look at Weruva.

If she won't eat low food food, you might have to look at adding a phos binder to the food she will eat.
@Suzanne & Darcy
Click to expand...

Ok yes... I have weruva on my list. I can also get Wysong Epigen and it is ok carbs, ~8.
I will look into the phosphorus binders just in case, thank you.
 
DanaB said:
I can also get Wysong Epigen and it is ok carbs, ~8.
Click to expand...
Dr. Lisa's list says it's not a complete food

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