2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted + Feline Herpes Question!

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pistull

pistull

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Does anyone know where I can get more info on the effect feline herpes has on feline diabetes? I can't find any research on it anywhere. Gizzy contracted the herpes virus in late 2010 and since then his #'s have not responded well to insulin. He's been diabetic since 2008 and was OTJ from 2/23/09 - 9/5/10.

I had a full CBC and urinalysis done this week and all his #'s were perfect (except glucose of course!!) There is nothing they can do for the herpes virus... The vet put him on Baytril (antibiotic) before I had her run the bloodwork because he has the classic red line on his gums which indicates infection. He also had a dental in November of 2010. I'm also giving him 500mg of L-Lysine per day.

I am absolutely baffled as to why he's not responding to insulin this time around. I'm leaving him at 2u twice a day for 7 days to see if his body starts to adjust to it. I just REALLY need to get him out of these high #'s) Fingers crossed.

Any ideas?!?
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted!

I'd cross post your question about herpes and FD on the Health board. There are several vet techs who routinely are on Health and they may be able to direct you to resources. There was this post on the Health board back in September. Apparently, people were suggesting the use of L-lysine which is an immune system booster.

I noticed on your SS that you're shooting at +10. Could you say a little more about that? Are you shooting 12 hours apart? Also, I would strongly discourage you from giving bolus doses of Lantus. Lantus is a long acting insulin and giving an "extra" shot will not work to drive numbers down they way you are anticipating.

Increasing Gizzy's dose from 1.0 to 2.0u is a huge increase. According to the dosing protocol that we use here, doses are typically increased by 0.25u, although if nadir is mostly over 300, an increase of 0.5u is permissible. You might want to consider lowering the dose and then increasing every 3 days if you're not seeing a response.
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted!

Good idea - just cross posted it.

I also edited my post to include that I'm giving him 500mg of L-Lysine per day and have been for about a month.

I used to follow a different protocol and had to modify Gizzy's dosage to give him insulin every 10 hours because he would run out of "juice" around +10. When he came out of remission, I just went back to what I had done in the past, but it's not working this time. I am now dosing him every 12 hours instead.
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted + Feline Herpes Question

I don't recommend increasing by 1 unit at a time. You've been hopping around in dose quite a bit, and only had one spot check on 1 unit, so you don't even know how low that dose was taking him to know if an increase was warranted. Now that you have increased, please get a LOT of spot checks. Once the shed fills, you might find the numbers going down fast. Also, if the Baytril starts to clear whatever infection is present, that could drop the numbers quickly too. Stay on top of it and monitor like crazy. Do you have high carb wet food and syrup on hand, and plenty of test strips?

The protocol we use in Lantus Land, doing smaller increases, helps us know that our cats are safe even when they go to low numbers. We know they can't be far above their ideal dose, because we increased the dose methodically. By doubling Gizzy's dose, you no longer have the luxury of knowing for sure he is safe. That means you have to be extremely diligent with testing and might not have an easy time bringing the numbers back up if they drop.
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted + Feline Herpes Question

Ugh....I just can't seem to do anything right this time around! Listening to too many people.
OK - so what do you recommend I do at this point? He's had 4 doses at 2u. Should I drop it back at the next dose to 1.5 and stick to that for 3-5 days or just continue with 2u to stay consistent?
Yes, I have plenty of strips and Karo syrup too.

I'm just shaking...I've used Lantus long enough to know all this....but the vet's concern was to get him out of these high #'s - he's been high for too long. Now I want to cry because I feel like I'm doing him more harm than good....
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted + Feline Herpes Question

you're doing what you can to help him...don't beat yourself up!

these folks have such a wealth of experience and knowledge...and they're kind...they won't beat you up either!

they've helped Binks and i immensely...and we made quite a few mistakes...
so hang in there!

celi & binks
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted + Feline Herpes Question

Beating yourself up is not allowed!! You have Gizzy's best interest at heart and you are not yet familiar with the protocol we use.

You haven't done anything harmful. But, you do have a choice. If you stick with the 2.0u, as Libby pointed out, numbers could drop quickly. If you are comfortable with steering the curve with high carb food and can aggressively monitor, you're fine. If you want to work more slowly, then you can drop the dose back to 1.5u. It all depends on what you're most comfortable with.
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted + Feline Herpes Question

Thanks Guys! I am feeling really bad over here and am dreading another sleepless night.... I don't have any high carb food - just his FF. Is that what I would give him in the event of low #'s?? I assume so, but don't want to guess at anything anymore! :) Thanks so much for your encouragement! It means the world to me!

I'll probably drop him back to 1.5 in the morning.
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted + Feline Herpes Question

Nope. The FF Classics are low carb. Here's a link to Janet & Binky's food chart. It has the carb content of most of the brands listed. The FF grilled, marinated, or their Gravy Lover's varieties are all high carb. (Gravy Lover's isn't listed on the food chart -- it's new. It's around 17% carb.) You want varieties that have gravy since that's where the carbs are. We use the gravy since it's far less filling than solids and the kitties love the stuff. Unless Gizzy is gluten sensitive it's fine to use. If she is sensitive to gluten, you can mix a couple of drops of Karo into low carb food.
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted + Feline Herpes Question

Thanks - good to know. I may run out and grab a few cans just to have them on hand overnight.
I just tested him at +5 after last dosage.... he dropped to 204. That's the lowest he's been for a long time.
Sooooo.....I'm thanking my lucky stars that I posted to this website when I did!! I'll watch him closely the next few days and also drop him to 1.5u.
Stomach in knots.... nailbite_smile
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted + Feline Herpes Question

You're doing fine. You've had to deal with low numbers before. You'll be back in stride in no time. Just take some time to review the dosing protocol. That will help you transition to how we approach dosing.
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted + Feline Herpes Question

So dumb question.... when I continue test him to see if his numbers go too low... once his numbers start climbing again (and before his next dose), I should be in the clear of hypo #'s - correct? So for example if he was at 374 when I dosed him and then he dropped to 204 at +5 and 158 at +6.5, if his #'s start going back up now - I shouldn't have to worry about him going hypo?? Correct?? (aka - I can go to bed...!!)
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted + Feline Herpes Question

I think you're safe to go to sleep. You'll have a clearer sense of Gizzy's cycle the more data you collect. It's not unusual for the cycles to be very different than what you were familiar with before your cat was in remission. It's a whole new picture.
 
Re: 2/12 Gizzy's #'s Finally Posted + Feline Herpes Question

I'm going to test one more time - I'm curious to see how low he will go! In the meantime, he's sleeping next to me like a log and I'm propping my eyes open with toothpicks! ;-)
OH! And 3 gas stations and 2 grocery stores later....I have my high carb food! Just in case!!
And then I'll cut back to 1.5 in the morning.
You rock by the way!!! Thanks for the quick replies!!
 
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