2/10 Maki, PMPS 259, 2+ 231

I have fish flakes as her low or no carb treats (dried fish). That's what I use at testing time. She is wild about them.
I am surprised for how much ear sticking I do, she hasn't been scratching at her ears, but she is ichy around her neck. Why?

No, I have not yet secure new Lantus. There was more left in her bottle thankfully than I thought. I waaaay underestimated it.
But it's on my list of gotta do.
 
Yes go ahead and give the 1.5U.

It's hard to say why she has a higher AMPS, sometimes they just do. Or maybe she went fairly low over night and is bouncing, or it's lingering effects from the kibble.

Ok good on the insulin!

She's scratching her neck where you give the injection? Or somewhere else?

When you have a question, be sure to use the "?" prefix when creating the post, it'll get someone to look at it more quickly.

When you get a chance, can you edit your post to include a link to yesterday's post? Thanks!
 
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/2-9-maki-pmps-237.242819/
I included this above. Should I copy it into each new message of the day? Or just the first one?

She started in December scratching and losing for around both sides of her neck. Then the last couple weeks she stopped. Fur is growing back in. Now last couple days she is scratching the again. I shoot her more toward her back/shoulder, not up on neck.

Ok going to catch more 2+, 4+, etc. And weigh her in between work. How do people do this that have real jobs? Thankfully I am home full time and a part time employee due to my disability. Otherwise I couldn't be here for her like this and it would worry me terribly if I were gone all day.
 
Patricia & Maki said:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/2-9-maki-pmps-237.242819/
I included this above. Should I copy it into each new message of the day? Or just the first one?

She started in December scratching and losing for around both sides of her neck. Then the last couple weeks she stopped. Fur is growing back in. Now last couple days she is scratching the again. I shoot her more toward her back/shoulder, not up on neck.

Ok going to catch more 2+, 4+, etc. And weigh her in between work. How do people do this that have real jobs? Thankfully I am home full time and a part time employee due to my disability. Otherwise I couldn't be here for her like this and it would worry me terribly if I were gone all day.
Click to expand...
Oh sorry I missed the link, just very tired today. You did it right! Just the first post.

And hmmm I'm not sure about the scratching. Maybe just very dry skin from winter? Collar?

Back when I was working, it was just kind of keep him in slightly higher numbers, make sure he had food available, and cross my fingers. I feel much better now that I'm at home!
 
Maki does not wear a collar. Hasn't since she was 2 yo. From research I could find, itching can be a side effect of diabetes in humans and they think in cats too. So I am watching it as another piece of data.

2+ 210 just now. Not eating kibble so hopefully drops in next 4+/5+
 
Patricia & Maki said:
but she is ichy around her neck. Why?
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Fleas?

Patricia & Maki said:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/2-9-maki-pmps-237.242819/
I included this above. Should I copy it into each new message of the day? Or just the first one?
Click to expand...

You link your previous thread to the first message/post of your current thread.


I'm sorry if you've answered this before, but why is she eating RC Glycobalance? The wet and dry are too high in carbs for a diabetic cat.
 
That's what her vet gave us when he diagnosed her. Handed us bag of dry glycobalance and case of wet. Said no to all other foods and feed her only this glycobalance. So we changed her over that day (1/4) and she's been in it since.
 
Also flea combed her so many times. Vet checked too. Said absolutely no sign of fleas and he tested for other parasites. Said she was clean and it could be behavioral scratching
 
Patricia & Maki said:
That's what her vet gave us when he diagnosed her. Handed us bag of dry glycobalance and case of wet. Said no to all other foods and feed her only this glycobalance. So we changed her over that day (1/4) and she's been in it since.
Click to expand...

I would return the food to the vet and switch Maki to a low carb canned food. You don't need any fancy prescription food to treat diabetes. Any low carb food with carb% less than 10% will do just fine. Most folks here feed Fancy Feast Classics.

This link will help you identify low carb food:
https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php

We have had cases of cats going into remission with just a food change! These are a couple of recent examples:

Simba was on prescription food and when she removed it, he went from 3U of Lantus to zero!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...rJs4_u_cUBmIdGP1COrsWAOSInfdXkOQAG6hR/pubhtml'

Charlie is another example
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IxtQMNTAGefIAx4SSsT91PYExkdgC1SCPUutSrpyaKk/edit?usp=sharing

A change to a low carb food can significantly lower his numbers and his insulin requirements so it has to be done gradually and with close monitoring of his BG.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
I would return the food to the vet and switch Maki to a low carb canned food. You don't need any fancy prescription food to treat diabetes. Any low carb food with carb% less than 10% will do just fine. Most folks here feed Fancy Feast Classics.

This link will help you identify low carb food:
https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php

We have had cases of cats going into remission with just a food change! These are a couple of recent examples:

Simba was on prescription food and when she removed it, he went from 3U of Lantus to zero!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...rJs4_u_cUBmIdGP1COrsWAOSInfdXkOQAG6hR/pubhtml'

Charlie is another example
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IxtQMNTAGefIAx4SSsT91PYExkdgC1SCPUutSrpyaKk/edit?usp=sharing

A change to a low carb food can significantly lower his numbers and his insulin requirements so it has to be done gradually and with close monitoring of his BG.
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Hi Bhooma,

We did mention this, but given that Maki had a symptomatic hypo a few weeks ago and Patricia was learning how to home test, we wanted to get the data first to see where she was before starting a switch. So we'll start a switch soon! Just wanted her to be comfortable with testing, giving insulin, etc.

Patricia - this brings up something I was going to mention today or tomorrow. I'd start getting ready to plan the low carb transition. That'll give.you time to go out and buy food, and be prepared.

I'd suggest you make that the topic of tomorrow's post, or you can even edit your title today. something like "? - Date - Maki - AMPS How to Transition to LC"

That'll give time for more experienced folks to come by and advise on when you should start, how you should do it, any dose changes, what to expect, etc. I'd be sure to give a quick recap that:
  • Vet gave you the food at diagnosis
  • Maki was on 2U ProZinc, she had a symptomatic hypo and was in the 30s by the time you got to the vet. They called it a bad reaction to ProZinc
  • Switched you to 1U Lantus for a week. Did a curve last Monday, and upped it to 2U
  • You came here, and by advice kept the food the same, started home testing, and went with a 1.5U dose
 
Ok. Picking up FF pates - that comply with LC. Will utilize food list again. Now the big one is what to do about dry food??. She is eating kibble right now since she just went below 100.

Also is there a treat specific list for LC? I would like to learn these more.

So when you say start planning the transition..I am all ears.
 
Thanks Melissa.

FrostD said:
  • Vet gave you the food at diagnosis
  • Maki was on 2U ProZinc, she had a symptomatic hypo and was in the 30s by the time you got to the vet. They called it a bad reaction to ProZinc
  • Switched you to 1U Lantus for a week. Did a curve last Monday, and upped it to 2U
  • You came here, and by advice kept the food the same, started home testing, and went with a 1.5U dose
Click to expand...

Patricia, could you add some of this to your signature. Especially the symptomatic hypo? I suppose you do not have BG data for when Maki was on Prozinc? If you could update yours SS to add the days when you were giving Prozinc - just the dose - even if there is no BG data - we would have some history. I can help you with this.

Going by the Signature and SS, I assumed you had just started Maki on insulin (Lantus).
 
Hi. Would you please update your spreadsheet? Did you shoot this morning? When did she drop under 100?
 
Patricia & Maki said:
Ok. Picking up FF pates - that comply with LC. Will utilize food list again. Now the big one is what to do about dry food??. She is eating kibble right now since she just went below 100.

Also is there a treat specific list for LC? I would like to learn these more.

So when you say start planning the transition..I am all ears.
Click to expand...
I will let the more experienced folks guide you on this one, I'll be a bit out of my depth trying to factor in the depot, food changes, and dose changes. I'm sure they'll give links to the posts that explain, but I don't want to put the cart before the horse, so to speak.
 
Patricia & Maki said:
Ok. Picking up FF pates - that comply with LC. Will utilize food list again. Now the big one is what to do about dry food??. She is eating kibble right now since she just went below 100.

Also is there a treat specific list for LC? I would like to learn these more.

So when you say start planning the transition..I am all ears.
Click to expand...
I will let the more experienced folks guide you on this one, I'll be a bit out of my depth trying to factor in the depot, food changes, and dose changes.

I'm sure they'll share all the useful links, I just don't want to put the "cart before the horse"
 
Ok. Been embarrassed to tell you all this. I can't figure out how to update ss from my phone. So when I reply but don't update ss that's why. I am somewhat challenged for tech things.
Ok. Better now that confession out there. So anytime wondering why I don't change things right away is cuz I am figuring out still how to do things.

She just tested at 99 4+. Will test again 5+. Correct?
 
The dry takes longer to work but stays with them longer too. Next time try some lc wet. While a drop under 90 earns a reduction, it’s not a reason to feed hc or dry. I’d feed lc or mc canned next time. Testing at +5 is fine.
 
Also just weighed her this morning. Still holding at 9.6 pounds. So no further weight loss since Monday. Vet said to get her weight back to 10 pounds.
I do not understand how to do that while juggling insulin dose/timing, her BGs, and changing food.
Too much at once?
 
Patricia & Maki said:
Ok. Been embarrassed to tell you all this. I can't figure out how to update ss from my phone. So when I reply but don't update ss that's why. I am somewhat challenged for tech things.
Ok. Better now that confession out there. So anytime wondering why I don't change things right away is cuz I am figuring out still how to do things.

She just tested at 99 4+. Will test again 5+. Correct?
Click to expand...

No need to be embarrassed. You can update your SS using the Google Sheets app. :-)

I would try the food change sooner rather than later. Feeding high carbs and then giving insulin seems counterintuitive! Once you are ready to try it, let us know and we will help you with it.
 
Patricia & Maki said:
Also just weighed her this morning. Still holding at 9.6 pounds. So no further weight loss since Monday. Vet said to get her weight back to 10 pounds.
I do not understand how to do that while juggling insulin dose/timing, her BGs, and changing food.
Too much at once?
Click to expand...

I would not be surprised if Maki goes off insulin with the food change. Her numbers are pretty good on a low enough dose considering that she is eating HC kibble.
 
You'll need the Google Sheets app on your phone, I believe Google Drive as well. Once you log into Google Drive on your phone, you should be able to see your spreadsheet in there. When you tap it, it should open in Google Sheets and you can edit
 
She was a 14# cat and the vet had said 11-12 was ideal for her size. So we got her to 11.6, then she dropped 2 pounds rapidly was his concern.
I will keep weighing but stop worrying as long as she doens't start dropping again. Thanks for the reassurance.

What dry food should I get her? Then once I have that I am ready to switch her when you folks say to.

Ok, added Google sheets to phone, that was problem. Didn't know I needed it. The SSs would open. but I couldn't click on it before. Thanks here too.

I am kitty care school. Different subjects, tests, data, sooo much to learn. Thanks for your patience.
 
Why do you want to give her dry? Does she not like wet? The goal would be to transition her completely to LC wet. So first remove the dry and feed only the wet you are feeding now and then transition to an LC wet.

But before you do that, we need to figure out how to adjust the insulin dose.
@tiffmaxee
 
Oh, she has this food toy that is her absolute favorite. So we put dry food in it and she rolls it all over (I guess exercise, stimulation, something she likes).
So the dry food before she was a free feeder. We left some all day and night and she was nibbler rather than making it a meal. (I will re-mention, I am a first time cat owner, she was a birthday gift). So I may have been doing all kinds of things wrong for her. I was a dog person before I got her.
 
Patricia & Maki said:
(I will re-mention, I am a first time cat owner, she was a birthday gift). So I may have been doing all kinds of things wrong for her. I was a dog person before I got her.
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She is lucky to have you. You are doing the best you can. The diabetes diagnosis forced me also to re-examine a lot of what I was feeding etc. :-)
 
Patricia & Maki said:
She was a 14# cat and the vet had said 11-12 was ideal for her size. So we got her to 11.6, then she dropped 2 pounds rapidly was his concern.
I will keep weighing but stop worrying as long as she doens't start dropping again. Thanks for the reassurance.

Your vet was right to be concerned about rapid weight loss as that can lead to fatty liver hepatic. She needs to get enough calories to gain to her ideal weight. You said the vet wanted her up to 10 pounds though which is why I said not to be

I am kitty care school. Different subjects, tests, data, sooo much to learn. Thanks for your patience.
Click to expand...

Yes, a lot to learn but we will help.
 
Your vet was right to be concerned about rapid weight loss as it can cause fatty liver. I’m confused though. You said the vet wanted her at 10 pounds but you also said 11 or 12. Is she a big cat? My girls are small and their ideal weight is around 8#10 oz. I struggle to keep them there and they are around 9#.
 
Vet's ideal was 11-12 for Maki. He calls her very long and she's a 'big boned cat'.
But when her weight dropped to 9.8 he said at minimum keep her at 10.
Then she dropped to 9.6 and has been there when I was trying to at least get her to 10.
 
Patricia & Maki said:
Vet's ideal was 11-12 for Maki. He calls her very long and she's a 'big boned cat'.
But when her weight dropped to 9.8 he said at minimum keep her at 10.
Then she dropped to 9.6 and has been there when I was trying to at least get her to 10.
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Feed her as much of the low carb food as you wants. The only time to time it is to keep her hungry if dropping too low. Is she a good eater?
 
"Bandit's Mom, post: She is lucky to have you. You are doing the best you can. The diabetes diagnosis forced me also to re-examine a lot of what I was feeding etc. :)"

I am sooo fortunate to have her. She was the best birthday gift ever. She was already 1 year feral when I got her so she has come so far and more often carried me through things than I her. I will keep trying and do whatever ya tell me that best helps her. She and I are grateful for this team.
 
Her eating is odd. She was a really good eater. Now she seems only so-so on food or ravenous. Not much middle of the road like she was before. But she free fed so not like she had a big mealtime.

I think getting her back on the FF pates will be great she liked those. From what I read, no more of the gravy or extra gravy ones though (unless hypo).
She likes her wet diluted with warm water. Then for dry what do I do? None? only treats in her roll-a-meal ball?
 
Patricia & Maki said:
Her eating is odd. She was a really good eater. Now she seems only so-so on food or ravenous. Not much middle of the road like she was before. But she free fed so not like she had a big mealtime.

I think getting her back on the FF pates will be great she liked those. From what I read, no more of the gravy or extra gravy ones though (unless hypo).
She likes her wet diluted with warm water. Then for dry what do I do? None? only treats in her roll-a-meal ball?
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The eating will regularize as her numbers stabilize. FF pates are fine. LC. If she likes those, that's great. No gravy. Those are HC.
Why do you need dry? For the ball?
 
If you can get her off the dry there’s a good chance she will go into remission quickly looking at her current numbers. If you need to feed dry there are a couple low carb but honestly it makes it harder to get them OTJ, off the juice.

There’s quite a variety of freeze dried 109% protein treats. Some look just like dry food in size. One is Vital Essentials. I bought a bag of the tuna. . One of mine loves it. The other one prefers other brands.
 
So this is going to sound out of left field but I will try to explain below. How much does stress change BGs? I have tried reading about this and think the answer is
'varies widely'.

During all this, we had just listed our house for sale, it sold in days, but we had troops of people through for showings, now for packing, inspections. Could this all have come on as more 'situational' diabetes? Since Maki was feral, she has always been a run and hide at slight noises, any visitors, sometimes even me working via speaker phone. Some I take responsibility for. I think I failed to socialize her during her second year (first year with me). So is this all going on as her stress is up high? Would I be better moving her out of the chaos (45 days til our closing and lots of packing to happen)?

I hope I explained that well. Writing is sometimes not my best.
 
Stress definitely can effect the BG so much that that if the BG is slightly over normal they often Say it’s from stress and to just keep an eye on habits such as drinking and litter box. Not a stupid question at all.
 
Patricia - looks like another good day for Maki, and hopefully a quiet night!

Just wanted to offer some words of encouragement, since I know the past few days have been overwhelming. You're doing a great job with a very steep learning curve; like the others said, I'd be surprised if she doesn't quickly go into remission once you can transition to low carb.

Has your vet been pestering you at all since you last spoke to him?
 
This is thinking out of the box, but if you can stop the dry, find a LC wet that Maki will eat, I would actually suggest you stop giving insulin, do the food change and see where her numbers are. I am recommending discontinuing insulin for a week during the food change because of the recent symptomatic hypo which may have made her sensitive to insulin, so we want to play safe. Better for her to run in higher numbers than struggle to get her up.

She seeing greens on a low enough dose of Lantus while eating HC! And the Lantus depot has not yet built up - takes a week!

And like I said earlier, feeding HC and giving insulin is counterintuitive!

@tiffmaxee, this reminds me of Simba!
 
First, will you be able to stop all dry? I’m not sure we should totally stop giving insulin but if all dry is cut out I think we can try a greatly reduced dose.
 
Started new thread for today, but last answers here.
No calls from vet. Not a peep.
We are ready to eliminate dry if that means Maki can live her best life. Protein years with the ball will be a new experiment.
 
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